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"TRNC" bankruptsy, the aftermath.

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Viewpoint » Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:53 pm

CBBB wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:Your clarification is only valid if the election results are very close but if this is not the case which is more than likely in a united structure, if the resounding majority being the GCs go for a party which leans towards them then it curtains for any TCs who decide to join or support this particular "political ideology" as they will have very little impact if the situation is manipulated in favor of one particular group. You also place a lot of trust in the EU which we TCs to date have absolutely no reason whatsoever to trust, do you think they will take any notice of us if we complain of power manipulation, they cant manage their own affairs let alone take heed of a few TCs who appose what the majority are doing which is not always right and can be to the detrement of the minority.

As for Taksim dreams they will only fade until we have an alternative which we feel will bebefit us far more greatlythan what we have today, so far we are nowhere near convincing the majority of TCs to commit unless its along the lines of the AP which the GCs reject.

You really need to start to look at it from the TC viewpoint and try to address their concerns rather than dictate so called democracy and human rights which to us is just your way of peddling capitulation of Tcs to GC demands which will guarantee us turning into an insignificant minority in a GC state.


Instead of a totally insignificant minority in a much larger Turkish state?


Well done now you have it, thats how strongly we feel.
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Postby ZoC » Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:24 pm

Viewpoint wrote:
CBBB wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:Your clarification is only valid if the election results are very close but if this is not the case which is more than likely in a united structure, if the resounding majority being the GCs go for a party which leans towards them then it curtains for any TCs who decide to join or support this particular "political ideology" as they will have very little impact if the situation is manipulated in favor of one particular group. You also place a lot of trust in the EU which we TCs to date have absolutely no reason whatsoever to trust, do you think they will take any notice of us if we complain of power manipulation, they cant manage their own affairs let alone take heed of a few TCs who appose what the majority are doing which is not always right and can be to the detrement of the minority.

As for Taksim dreams they will only fade until we have an alternative which we feel will bebefit us far more greatlythan what we have today, so far we are nowhere near convincing the majority of TCs to commit unless its along the lines of the AP which the GCs reject.

You really need to start to look at it from the TC viewpoint and try to address their concerns rather than dictate so called democracy and human rights which to us is just your way of peddling capitulation of Tcs to GC demands which will guarantee us turning into an insignificant minority in a GC state.


Instead of a totally insignificant minority in a much larger Turkish state?


Well done now you have it, thats how strongly we feel.


i feel strongly that ur crooked and nuts. why don't u try and address my concerns rather than dictate ur so called capitulation worries - which to me is just ur way of peddling the stealing of stuff that don't belong to u?
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Postby georgios100 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:28 pm

The TC community was, is & will always be a minority. Why is the GC side blamed for that? Attempting to add the settlers to your numbers never worked, indeed it backfired and yet the GC side is blamed again... for demanding removal of the settlers!

Siding with RoC would solve most of your problems. Siding with Turkey will not as the current situation depicts.

Any alternative ideas out there?
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Postby Kikapu » Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:35 pm

Viewpoint wrote:Your clarification is only valid if the election results are very close but if this is not the case which is more than likely in a united structure, if the resounding majority being the GCs go for a party which leans towards them then it curtains for any TCs who decide to join or support this particular "political ideology" as they will have very little impact if the situation is manipulated in favor of one particular group. You also place a lot of trust in the EU which we TCs to date have absolutely no reason whatsoever to trust, do you think they will take any notice of us if we complain of power manipulation, they cant manage their own affairs let alone take heed of a few TCs who appose what the majority are doing which is not always right and can be to the detrement of the minority.


Then convince all the TCs to have just ONE political ideology and form just one political party and try to attract as many GCs as possible to join that one political party, assuming you ideology is based on Democracy and Human Rights, you should be able to have a political party with a substantial number of TCs, perhaps even more than 50%, if not more, then hope that you can win an election outright or have a very strong coalition partner, but don't expect the GCs to join you if you want to become the "Apartheid Party". You keep ignoring the formation of the Federal Constitution by the GCs and the TCs to secure every one's rights as well as Rotating Presidency. It works in other countries, but it is hard to see these possibilities when you are holding onto your Taksim Dreams.

The reasons as to why you do not trust the EU, is because the EU is not letting you and Turkey bend the rules on Democracy and Human Rights, nor do they want to become co-conspirators in the creation of the "trnc" by dealing with them. Just because some idiots within the EU may have made promises to the TCs and Turkey, does not mean that the EU body made those promises or even agreed with it. As a result, they are not interested in accommodating the "trnc", but have accepted the TCs as EU citizens. The EU is doing everything as it is structured to do, which is to live by her own Principles, which is what it is doing.

The EU is doing exactly as it suppose to do, which is to discourage partitioning of the island, specially now that the whole island is part of her territory. I can't say I can blame the EU for doing that, can you.? Well, at least not if you were living in the real world from the one you want to create, which no one is willing to help you. Even Turkey is slowly but surely is backing away from the "trnc", and for all good reasons too. It has to do with her own economic survivability, to be a friends with the EU or an enemy. My money is on that Turkey wants to remain as friend with the EU, with or without a EU membership.

Viewpoint wrote:As for Taksim dreams they will only fade until we have an alternative which we feel will bebefit us far more greatlythan what we have today, so far we are nowhere near convincing the majority of TCs to commit unless its along the lines of the AP which the GCs reject.


Nothing in the world is going to benefit you (TCs) than the AP would have. But then again, the AP was not the real world, but a fantasy gone crazy on steroids. You can thank Turkey for that, for them asking the impossible, which made it easy for the GCs to say OXI to it. There NEVER EVER will be another AP as the one in 2004, because no such agreement can be accepted by the EU, now that the RoC is in the EU., even if the GCs said "YES" to it, which they will not. Unless you start living in the real world of Democracy and Human rights, no one is going to have any sympathy of the final outcome of the TCs, which is them becoming non existence with time.

Viewpoint wrote:You really need to start to look at it from the TC viewpoint and try to address their concerns rather than dictate so called democracy and human rights which to us is just your way of peddling capitulation of Tcs to GC demands which will guarantee us turning into an insignificant minority in a GC state.


I have always looked from a TC point of view, is the reason why I support BBF, but BBF only based on True Democracy, Human rights, International Law and EU Principles. It is these principles which is going to give the TCs the safeguards they need and at the same time, prevent those who still dream of Taksim from trying to partition the island. There has to be safeguards for all Cypriots and not just for the TCs, or else we will be back to square one with ethnic problems. You must not see my rejection of the Fascists NeoPartitionists as not seeing things through the TCs point of view. I only see from the point of views of the TCs who see themselves as Cypriots and who want to keep Cyprus as one for all Cypriots. I'm not interested in a partitioned Cyprus or for the TCs to be ruled by Turkey. If that was my desires, I would have moved to Turkey long time ago. I have not!
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Postby Viewpoint » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:21 pm

georgios100 wrote:The TC community was, is & will always be a minority. Why is the GC side blamed for that? Attempting to add the settlers to your numbers never worked, indeed it backfired and yet the GC side is blamed again... for demanding removal of the settlers!

Siding with RoC would solve most of your problems. Siding with Turkey will not as the current situation depicts.

Any alternative ideas out there?


We are your partner not your minority.
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Postby B25 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:17 pm

Viewpoint wrote:
georgios100 wrote:The TC community was, is & will always be a minority. Why is the GC side blamed for that? Attempting to add the settlers to your numbers never worked, indeed it backfired and yet the GC side is blamed again... for demanding removal of the settlers!

Siding with RoC would solve most of your problems. Siding with Turkey will not as the current situation depicts.

Any alternative ideas out there?


We are your partner not your minority.


Bollocks, you never were. Only by blackmail by the colonials did you get to that position.
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Postby Viewpoint » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:41 am

Kikapu
Then convince all the TCs to have just ONE political ideology and form just one political party and try to attract as many GCs as possible to join that one political party, assuming you ideology is based on Democracy and Human Rights, you should be able to have a political party with a substantial number of TCs, perhaps even more than 50%, if not more, then hope that you can win an election outright or have a very strong coalition partner, but don't expect the GCs to join you if you want to become the "Apartheid Party". You keep ignoring the formation of the Federal Constitution by the GCs and the TCs to secure every one's rights as well as Rotating Presidency. It works in other countries, but it is hard to see these possibilities when you are holding onto your Taksim Dreams.


Pit this recommendation against 80% GC majority it doesnt stand a chance. All that has to be done is forming a party with the same ideology but totally made up from GCs and if they get the full backing of 51% of the GCs bingo they rule supreme and you get your wish.

The reasons as to why you do not trust the EU, is because the EU is not letting you and Turkey bend the rules on Democracy and Human Rights, nor do they want to become co-conspirators in the creation of the "trnc" by dealing with them. Just because some idiots within the EU may have made promises to the TCs and Turkey, does not mean that the EU body made those promises or even agreed with it. As a result, they are not interested in accommodating the "trnc", but have accepted the TCs as EU citizens. The EU is doing everything as it is structured to do, which is to live by her own Principles, which is what it is doing


So what are you saying we do not trust those that work with the EU? those that make and break promises.

Nothing in the world is going to benefit you (TCs) than the AP would have. But then again, the AP was not the real world, but a fantasy gone crazy on steroids. You can thank Turkey for that, for them asking the impossible, which made it easy for the GCs to say OXI to it. There NEVER EVER will be another AP as the one in 2004, because no such agreement can be accepted by the EU, now that the RoC is in the EU., even if the GCs said "YES" to it, which they will not. Unless you start living in the real world of Democracy and Human rights, no one is going to have any sympathy of the final outcome of the TCs, which is them becoming non existence with time.


The basis for any future plan is the AP never forget that, call it what you wish but the basics will be the same, its the only way you can get the TCs to say yes. What you do not seem to realize is that even the current division is much preferred to anything the GCs have proposed to date, do you understand this?

I have always looked from a TC point of view, is the reason why I support BBF, but BBF only based on True Democracy, Human rights, International Law and EU Principles. It is these principles which is going to give the TCs the safeguards they need and at the same time, prevent those who still dream of Taksim from trying to partition the island. There has to be safeguards for all Cypriots and not just for the TCs, or else we will be back to square one with ethnic problems. You must not see my rejection of the Fascists NeoPartitionists as not seeing things through the TCs point of view. I only see from the point of views of the TCs who see themselves as Cypriots and who want to keep Cyprus as one for all Cypriots. I'm not interested in a partitioned Cyprus or for the TCs to be ruled by Turkey. If that was my desires, I would have moved to Turkey long time ago. I have not!


If true demiocracy and human rights gifts this island to GC domination then no thanks, your plan was just that it was flawed and gave Cyprus to the GC on a plate, if that is your version of looking at the issue from a TC viewpoint then again no thanks, we will not support any plan that will tunr us into a minority in a GC state.
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Postby Viewpoint » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:44 am

B25 wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
georgios100 wrote:The TC community was, is & will always be a minority. Why is the GC side blamed for that? Attempting to add the settlers to your numbers never worked, indeed it backfired and yet the GC side is blamed again... for demanding removal of the settlers!

Siding with RoC would solve most of your problems. Siding with Turkey will not as the current situation depicts.

Any alternative ideas out there?


We are your partner not your minority.


Bollocks, you never were. Only by blackmail by the colonials did you get to that position.


Tough luck your signature is on the binding agreement.
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Postby ZoC » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:14 am

Viewpoint wrote:
B25 wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
georgios100 wrote:The TC community was, is & will always be a minority. Why is the GC side blamed for that? Attempting to add the settlers to your numbers never worked, indeed it backfired and yet the GC side is blamed again... for demanding removal of the settlers!

Siding with RoC would solve most of your problems. Siding with Turkey will not as the current situation depicts.

Any alternative ideas out there?


We are your partner not your minority.


Bollocks, you never were. Only by blackmail by the colonials did you get to that position.


Tough luck your signature is on the binding agreement.


tough luck - the binding agreement, extracted by blackmail, got flushed down the loo (even though ur not supposed to do that with toilet paper in cyprus).
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Postby Viewpoint » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:17 am

You may think that but the rest of world does not and recognizes we have rights stemming from that agreement,
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