Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kikapu]

vips is quick of the mark to point the 20% and 80% but not when it comes to land...

he wants the 20% to control 37% land and 50% coast...

Actually, at the present time, those percentages are more like 10% TCs - 90% GCs.

[DT.]

vips is quick of the mark to point the 20% and 80% but not when it comes to land...

he wants the 20% to control 37% land and 50% coast...

"50% coast" Due to the Karpas peninsular, which is well and truly in the North. Ain't nature a bugger?

and which still belongs to the RoC! Ain't International Law a bugger?

And 30% of that belongs to the TCs who control 37% of the island, the truth hurts.

truth can be many different things. Tell this Turkish mate of yours that he can't fly and he'll call you a liar.

[Kikapu]

vips is quick of the mark to point the 20% and 80% but not when it comes to land...

he wants the 20% to control 37% land and 50% coast...

"50% coast" Due to the Karpas peninsular, which is well and truly in the North. Ain't nature a bugger?

and which still belongs to the RoC! Ain't International Law a bugger?

And 30% of that belongs to the TCs who control 37% of the island, the truth hurts.

truth can be many different things. Tell this Turkish mate of yours that he can't fly and he'll call you a liar.

It was even shown on the "Tonight Show" .!!!

[DT.]

Thats nothin' they even modified Grand Theft Auto for him

[Kikapu]

Thats nothin' they even modified Grand Theft Auto for him

Now I'm really impressed with this guy!

[Viewpoint]

Cypriots are just not ready for such a move so what do we do in the interim when you consider the total mistrust between the two sides.

I don't buy that at all. You are always ready to point out your concerns but you are not willing to demand changes that would do away with your concerns that would also be acceptable to the other side. You problem is, you are not ready to give up on your Taksim Dreams, is the reason why you want to retain ethnically divided political parties. Don't blame good solutions based on Democracy and Human rights as being faulty and untrustworthy. Blame them on you wanting to keep Cyprus divided in anyway possible, and wanting ethnic political parties is just one of them.

Neither side is mature or ready for such a move, can you answer this question honestly maybe difficult for you but please try. Can a political ideological party be manipulated by either ethnic group to favor one community more than the other? or can one ethnic group be excluded with just a symbolic presence?

I need to go, but will get back to your question if you want to discuss it furthermore.

Basically in a word, No, political parties based on political ideologies cannot be manipulated to favour one ethnic group over another when political parties based on ideology are made up of all ethnic groups, specially in today's world and Cyprus being in the EU.

But feel free to tell me what those manipulations could be that you may fear so that we can discuss them.!

And your answers are?

You haven't given me your specific concern questions yet, so how can I answer them.?

On the general question you asked, I gave the answer as a "NO". Perhaps you missed it.?

So you feel that one ethnic group within a party cannot hijack the party to reduce others to a symbolic representation and then proceed to exploit that advantage one elected by the people?

[Kikapu]

Cypriots are just not ready for such a move so what do we do in the interim when you consider the total mistrust between the two sides.

I don't buy that at all. You are always ready to point out your concerns but you are not willing to demand changes that would do away with your concerns that would also be acceptable to the other side. You problem is, you are not ready to give up on your Taksim Dreams, is the reason why you want to retain ethnically divided political parties. Don't blame good solutions based on Democracy and Human rights as being faulty and untrustworthy. Blame them on you wanting to keep Cyprus divided in anyway possible, and wanting ethnic political parties is just one of them.

Neither side is mature or ready for such a move, can you answer this question honestly maybe difficult for you but please try. Can a political ideological party be manipulated by either ethnic group to favor one community more than the other? or can one ethnic group be excluded with just a symbolic presence?

I need to go, but will get back to your question if you want to discuss it furthermore.

Basically in a word, No, political parties based on political ideologies cannot be manipulated to favour one ethnic group over another when political parties based on ideology are made up of all ethnic groups, specially in today's world and Cyprus being in the EU.

But feel free to tell me what those manipulations could be that you may fear so that we can discuss them.!

And your answers are?

You haven't given me your specific concern questions yet, so how can I answer them.?

On the general question you asked, I gave the answer as a "NO". Perhaps you missed it.?

So you feel that one ethnic group within a party cannot hijack the party to reduce others to a symbolic representation and then proceed to exploit that advantage one elected by the people?

But the political parties are based on political ideology and not based on ethnic orientation. You are a TC and Bananiot is a GC. Lets just say you both have same political ideology, therefore why would the ethnicity matter since you want the same policicies for the country.? Lets say Runaway, aka Eric Dayi who is black, but still has the same ideology as you and Bananiot. Why does it matter if he is black. If what you fear were to happen, surely there is no advantage for that political party, since they will lose membership to other parties and make themselves worthless. The whole idea of any political party based on ideology, is to build membership and not reduce them. Who is going to join them for them being a racists political party in the future, except by other racists, but they will lose far more members who are not racists. Naturally, there are various degrees of differences within each political party based on ideology and different members will have different ideas, even within the same party, which is what you want.

If governments are formed with a different coalition political parties, how can anyone within any political party ignore it's own members without losing their members either before an election or after to other political parties they feel more associated with. What would be the advantage to discriminate against their own members, because the end result will be, other bigger political parties would win in the future.? Policies will be based on ideology and not on ethnicity, so I do not share your concerns at all. We are Talking about having a True Democracy after all, and not something they have in Turkey where the ethnic minority, the Kurds are ignored in the political system. Besides, you also forget that there will be a Federal Constitution to safeguard everyone's rights.

[Viewpoint]

Cypriots are just not ready for such a move so what do we do in the interim when you consider the total mistrust between the two sides.

I don't buy that at all. You are always ready to point out your concerns but you are not willing to demand changes that would do away with your concerns that would also be acceptable to the other side. You problem is, you are not ready to give up on your Taksim Dreams, is the reason why you want to retain ethnically divided political parties. Don't blame good solutions based on Democracy and Human rights as being faulty and untrustworthy. Blame them on you wanting to keep Cyprus divided in anyway possible, and wanting ethnic political parties is just one of them.

Neither side is mature or ready for such a move, can you answer this question honestly maybe difficult for you but please try. Can a political ideological party be manipulated by either ethnic group to favor one community more than the other? or can one ethnic group be excluded with just a symbolic presence?

I need to go, but will get back to your question if you want to discuss it furthermore.

Basically in a word, No, political parties based on political ideologies cannot be manipulated to favour one ethnic group over another when political parties based on ideology are made up of all ethnic groups, specially in today's world and Cyprus being in the EU.

But feel free to tell me what those manipulations could be that you may fear so that we can discuss them.!

And your answers are?

You haven't given me your specific concern questions yet, so how can I answer them.?

On the general question you asked, I gave the answer as a "NO". Perhaps you missed it.?

So you feel that one ethnic group within a party cannot hijack the party to reduce others to a symbolic representation and then proceed to exploit that advantage one elected by the people?

But the political parties are based on political ideology and not based on ethnic orientation. You are a TC and Bananiot is a GC. Lets just say you both have same political ideology, therefore why would the ethnicity matter since you want the same policicies for the country.? Lets say Runaway, aka Eric Dayi who is black, but still has the same ideology as you and Bananiot. Why does it matter if he is black. If what you fear were to happen, surely there is no advantage for that political party, since they will lose membership to other parties and make themselves worthless. The whole idea of any political party based on ideology, is to build membership and not reduce them. Who is going to join them for them being a racists political party in the future, except by other racists, but they will lose far more members who are not racists. Naturally, there are various degrees of differences within each political party based on ideology and different members will have different ideas, even within the same party, which is what you want.

If governments are formed with a different coalition political parties, how can anyone within any political party ignore it's own members without losing their members either before an election or after to other political parties they feel more associated with. What would be the advantage to discriminate against their own members, because the end result will be, other bigger political parties would win in the future.? Policies will be based on ideology and not on ethnicity, so I do not share your concerns at all. We are Talking about having a True Democracy after all, and not something they have in Turkey where the ethnic minority, the Kurds are ignored in the political system. Besides, you also forget that there will be a Federal Constitution to safeguard everyone's rights.

Lots of excuses but no out right disagreement, so it is possible but they would lose ground and continue to fight within the party, for example if bananiot and eric dayi ganged up on me and did not follow the original party line yet still got the support necessary within the party to adopt and apply laws that would effect the TCs community negatively.These are valid concerns which should be addressed as neither side trusts the other one iota.

[boulio]

if something effects the t/ negatively they should have a veto.like linguistics,education,culture.but not a veto for passing a budget or joining a europan or universal organization.

[Get Real!]

...for example if bananiot and eric dayi ganged up on me and did not follow the original party line yet still got the support necessary within the party to adopt and apply laws that would effect the TCs community negatively.These are valid concerns which should be addressed as neither side trusts the other one iota.

Do you still have hope for a bizonal-bicommunal scatopia?