Kikapu wrote:
What kind of "Enigma" machine are you using to decode my post, because I don't think you had succeeded at all.
What does the above have anything to what we are talking about, which you have made the claim that that the GCs are waiting to avenge the TCs, which you have not proven btw, to what has happened in the past and the International community, even if what you stated above to be true. Lets not bounce all over the place like a beach ball......please.
Maybe we both don’t understand each other here because my replies seem to have taken a detour on exactly what I am trying to express.
Maybe you can then elaborate on your question to me.
As long as the occupation is present in the north by Turkey, it would be hard for most GCs not to feel vengeful, wouldn't you say.?
So who are the G/C feeling vengeful towards Turkey or Turkish Cypriots? If it is Turkey then why am I in the cross fire, let the G/C use there EU status and demand Turkey to sit at the table with Mr Christofias, Erdogan recently expressed strategic interest in Cyprus shouldn’t that give enough ammunition for the South to build up it’s case and remove Turkey from Cyprus? Has anyone from UN, EU or International Community really pressured South Cyprus and Turkey to give me any freedom in my own homeland? All we hear is condemnation.
Kikapu wrote:Listen my friend, I think you are generally a good guy and means well, but at the same time, you need to learn to stick to the topic at hand and don't go on to things that are not relevant or even for them to be true. I'm willing to cut you slack now and then, but if you continue to become disrespectful by putting words into my mouth that are inaccurate, I will not take your posts seriously, just because you run out of things to say relating to the original post from yourself that I was responding to. Where the hell have I ever said that I put more value on property than I do on life.?? What ever crimes that has been committed on all Cypriots by the Fascists of both sides in the past, may they all rest i peace, does not alleviate the crimes that are still taking place today by keeping people off their properties. Stay in the present because that's where we are.
I never said that you said property value was more than life, that was my own words in regards to the general view on these negotiations frozen because of the property issue. However it was my words in response
Ethnic cleansing in recent years does not give ownership of those land to now claim sovereignty over them. You cannot have sovereignty of the land where 80% belongs to the GCs who may not want to be with you in that state, specially a sovereign state.
If you would like a more direct answer , what ownership rights does it give the G/C to administrate and govern what is proclaimed internationally of the whole island under the RoC? The same way we can’t have sovereignty of the land as you claim the same way the G/C can’t have sovereignty over the whole island which they are doing internationally. But you choose to forget that and blame the T/C rights for soverighty while you ignore G/C government claiming 100% ownership of Cyprus internationally. You don't have to be a facist to see this.
Kikapu wrote:Some people still fly the Confederate Flag in the south of USA, so what.? Are you saying that having that flag on the "graffiti mountain" in the north where half the island can see it, is the same as the EOKA flag on some hill in the south where you have to drive to it to see....maybe.
I already said I am against such displays so I will not comment further.
Kikapu wrote:There doesn't need to be a forced marriage. No. Anyone can choose not to take part in the Democratic system for Cyprus, but they shouldn't be able to stop the rest of the Cypriots to form what ever marriage they want together. Also, no one should be allowed to force thousands of people from their land and then use that land to declare another state in order to try and form a "partnership" or talk of partition. This is not how countries that have decided to partition their country through a referendum works. I'm surprised you do not see that.?
Not that I am comparing any with Cyprus, but there has been countries which have declared lands to be within there state after expelling ethnic minorities. Why don’t you ask the G/C friends Israel? Or the partition of Yugoslavia which many Serbians were forced to leave from Albania to reduce any ethnic uprising.
Kikapu wrote:VP points were all addressed to a point where VP makes pointless claims, so don't be in a too hurry to suggest that there are "high risk scenarios" until you have read the whole thread. The fact that VP is an open Fascist NeoPartitionist, I'm even more surprised that you take anything VP says regarding Democracy and Human Rights seriously, but that's your choice. Just don't be too surprised if you get ridiculed for quoting VP positions as to what the so called "high risk scenarios" claims are.!
I do not take VP’s viewpoint
I just said he/she made valid points although I have not had that many posts you will see that I do not defend everything VP writes.
Kikapu wrote:How so.? There is a BBF on the table that has been agreed on and the RoC is in the EU which the EU Principles would apply. Those are the tools I'm using to reach my possible outcome. What tools are you using to reach your conclusions.?
Im trying to think the most logical structure for a united Cyprus we have the framework there it is the implementation and an agreement from both sides that is the hard part. Living in federation and true democracy governed country you and me know there is no such thing as BB then F. In Australia we don’t have bicommunal and bizonal districts working under a federation, you don’t expect the rules and laws to change as soon as I enter Italian/Serb/Polish suburbs or communities within the same state. So if you support true democracy and true federation then you should not use the BBF as a tool because this tool is what we have today without the federation. If you want true democracy and federation then there will be no zones, no communal separation and anywhere and everywhere you choose to live in Cyprus will have the same laws and rules to every individual as an equal.
Kikapu wrote:1. Where you born in Cyprus or are you just like VP who was not born in Cyprus, but who came to the island for the first time to settle when he was 30+ years old from the UK.?
2. If you were born in Cyprus, what have you seen of the Cyprus conflict from 1963 to 1974.?
3. How are you able to live in the north in a "corrupted society" from the one you lived in Australia.?
4. How much GC property is held by your immediate family and relatives and what are their views on Democracy and Human Rights as well as their views on BBF in the form of FEDERATION, or do they also think there should be a Confederation.?
1. I was not born in Cyprus and like I said before for personal reason I live in Cyprus now.
2. In regards to the conflict from Grandmother, Grandfather, uncles, aunties, relatives and mum have been hostages and witnessed atrocities against them in fact they are lucky to all be alive because my mum is from Kofinou which witnessed some of the worse armed Greek fighters storming into the village murdering T/C in cold blood. And yet Australia has had no effect on my personal feelings and I have many Greek friends its funny how the world works where you live. And yet I too would want to see a united Cyprus.
3. You can call it what you want but at the end of the day it is my mothers land which makes it my homeland and if I choose to go back to Australia one day I will not regret any day being here.
4. If you want the honest truth speaking only about my immediate family here most of them have given up hope of any settlement so when I try to discuss the topic they just cannot be bothered anymore and they know tomorrow is just another day. So I cannot comment on what they think about a solution. In regards to G/C property well it was exchange for the property they left in the South which mind you no longer exists.
