Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kikapu]

Dear Kikapu

The ideology in Greek Cyprus has been to avenge the insult of the Turkish invasion. This hateful ideology is nourished by the state, the Greek Orthodox Church, the schools, the army and the news media. It derives from genuine grievances, but does not offer genuine solutions. In the north, the older generation of Turkish Cypriots remembers their gross mistreatment in the 1960s and cling to an ideology of safety-through-separation.

As long as the occupation is present in the north by Turkey, it would be hard for most GCs not to feel vengeful, wouldn't you say.? Add on top the TCs selling off the GCs properties and keeping them off their land, all a while they are receiving jobs, health-care, EU passports and the display of the non recognises flag by the international community on the mountain just for god measure as if to say, "Fuck You". All this would be enough to drive a sane person insane, but yet, you don't really see the anger by the GCs on the streets towards the TCs, do you.? You don't have avenges taking place on regular basis as the TCs cross over to the south worry free, aside from occasional football hooligans attacking cars from the north. Can you imagine how much nicer the GCs might be if they were allowed back to the homes in the north, their land not being sold off, the flag coming down off the mountain and the Turkish army went home. Why don't you do few things in the north to accommodate a better feelings between the TCs and the GCs instead of asking the GCs to be less vengeful ( where are these vengeful claims anyway) all a while nothing changes in the north to harmonize the atmosphere for better relationship.

So before any political ideology there has to be effort to deconstruct and dissolve these ideologies for your vision of true democracy to work and that’s a very long long way away.

Then start first by getting rid of all the Fascist NeoPartitionist ideology in the north before you can ask others to change theirs. Just by accepting the Annan Plan as most did in the north, only goes to show that the north prefers a Racist Apartheid solution than a Democratic one. The majority of the GCs denounced the AP, so they are ready for democracy, but the TCs are not. In the mean time, the Middle East is burning down with people dying to have Democracy while the TCs reject it. Can you imagine what these Democracy demonstrators must think of the TCs at the moment.?? I hate to think to be honest.

That is why it is essential to have two sovereign states each administration representing each community this way power will not be lost and both communities are safeguarded while trust can be built over years.

You can have 2 states under BBF, under a True Federation as the case is in the USA which can allow the north state to run it's own business withing the guidelines of the Federal Constitution, but they cannot be sovereign, because the north and south do not belong solely to those who live on them. Ethnic cleansing in recent years does not give ownership of those land to now claim sovereignty over them. You cannot have sovereignty of the land where 80% belongs to the GCs who may not want to be with you in that state, specially a sovereign state. Sovereign States only adds finality to partition, therefore it's not going to happen. As a Federal State, each state run their own affairs 99% of the time. Turkey now runs the north 100% and the TCs, 0%.

Over 50 years we have not had a single government G/C or T/C whose political ideology has not had some ethnic influence, and don’t forget politics is all about money so it will only take for example a few wealthy G/C entrepreneurs to sway the ideology or laws of a certain party in favour of the wealthy. Once the scale starts to sway it will be very nervous times.

You will have your north Federal State, so who cares what political ideology some "fat cats" may have. Of course money influences politics and policies, but that would apply to anyone and everyone. All I'm saying is, the TCs have a greater chance running the country as Cypriots mixed with the GCs in various political parties based on ideology that strict political parties based on ethnicity. The numbers are not in the TCs favour for that, eventhough the BBF system does give the TCs a lot if they would use it properly. You can read my BBF plan to see what I'm talking about.

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=21685

At the moment Cyprus has the plan but not the thirst. Also remember great countries of federation never started from a federation but a confederation like Australia for example it was years and years after trust and unification it became a federation with a single governing body for Australia, we have no trust, no united trust fund or deals to even have a glimpse of hope of one political party representing both communities equal in a true democracy.

First of all, you are making a big assumption about ALL Federations having had to have gone through Confederation first. That is not factual at all. But I really don't want to compare Cyprus to other places since the agreements signed in the 70's are for BBF and "F" stands for FEDERATION, so forget about Confederation, because it's not going to happen. Confederation works well as it does where I live in Switzerland, when all the states who join to it, want to remain in the Union and they also bring their own people and land (state) into the union. Cyprus does not meet those thresholds, because the TCs (Turkey) want partition and a Confederation would only seal that goal, and secondly, the TCs and GCs do not have their own specific land as a state that they are bringing to the union, since TCs and GCs have lived all over the island mixed for the past 400+ years. The last 37 years does not change that threshold based on ethnic cleansing the GCs from the north and TCs from the south. But if you are really keen on wanting a Confederation before Federation, which often also includes civil wars, well, we have already had a civil war back in the 60's and the 70's, had separate areas to live based on ethnicity of north and south, which you can count it as a "Confederate states" if you like, so now we are at a time to have a True Federation. You see, you wish had already been made and you didn't even realise it.!

[Viewpoint]

Kikapu you have made some very valid points but the two sides are just not ready for such a move, anyone who would try to make just a bold move would not be trusted and even declared a traitor, there is just no trust this will only evolve over time.

[Hermes]

Austerity or bust
Or take your medicine and die anyway...

Austerity or bust
By Simon Bahceli

STANDING between an increasingly impatient Ankara and battle-ready Turkish Cypriot trades unions, Ersin Tatar is in an unenviable position. As ‘finance minister’ of the breakaway north, he is powerless to defy the Turkish government’s newfound insistence that he bring his notoriously lax economy into order.
And while Ankara squarely tells him he must either implement austerity or face bankruptcy, the unions threaten to thwart Ankara’s plans at every turn. It looks like he is in a lose-lose situation.
But Tatar is not giving up. As he goes through last minute preparations before a visit to the Turkish government in Ankara the following day, the 51 year-old Cambridge business graduate looks only a little concerned.
Since taking office nearly two years ago, Tatar has never had it easy. When taking the job, he knew that Turkey, having itself gone through its own painful IMF-imposed austerity measures, now had its eye on reshaping how aid to the north was spent. A report quietly published by the World Bank in 2006 on the Turkish Cypriot economy had fuelled opinion in Ankara that north Cyprus was a financial black hole into which the Turkish taxpayer’s money simply disappeared. Armed with the report, Ankara persuaded Tatar’s predecessor Ahmet Uzun to implement austerity, but unfortunately for him and Ankara, the unions took on the ‘government’, eventually bringing it down. Now Tatar’s National Unity Party (UBP) faces the same possibility.
Although coming to power on the understanding it would not implement Ankara’s austerity package, Tatar and the rest of his administration now insist there is no choice but to see it implemented.
“Over three years Turkey will be spending 2.5 billion dollars in Cyprus. We either face austerity and get this money, or we don’t and get nothing,” Tatar says.
Put that way there doesn’t seem to be much to think about, especially if you, like Tatar, believe Turkey’s assertion that the massive investment will include the piping of cheap and plentiful supplies of water and electricity to the island.
“Turkey’s aid has been increasing over the years, but it wants discipline,” the pragmatic Tatar explains. Ankara now wants to see its aid to the north set at 600 million dollars per annum and to see the breakaway state transforming its economy from one that spends over 80 per cent of Turkish aid on covering public sector salaries to one where two thirds of it is spent on private sector investments and incentives.
Ankara may right now be cross with north Nicosia for spending so much of its hard-earned money, but there are excuses, or rather reasons, for the ever-growing budget deficit. After 1974, Tatar explains, public sector jobs were handed out to a conflict-weary community in an effort “to keep people on the island”. At first there were no pensioners to pay for because no one had yet retired from the new born ‘state’. However, “the chickens have now come home to roost”, Tatar says, with nearly all of those who took up work back then now retired. In fact, there are 13,000 retired public sector workers currently receiving pensions. Plus Tatar has to pay social security to another 28,000 retired private sector workers, meaning that he pays more than twice as many retired people than he does working ones.
Tatar cites “political reasons” for the mess and gives ‘state’ broadcaster BRTK, which has 700 people on the payroll for “a job that could be done by 200”, as an example of how things have gone awry.
Debts of around 1.5 billion euros to local banks and to funds the ‘government’ borrowed from workers’ deposits compound Tatar’s misery, added to which is a further 1.5 billion euros it owes Turkey. While in the past one may have laughed off the notion of the north being able to or even trying to pay it back, Tatar looks grave when he says “Turkey will come knocking at the door”.
“Turkey is like our IMF (International Monetary Fund). It aims to increase efficiency in the public sector and increase competitiveness in the private sector,” he says, repeating the mantra he has undoubtedly repeated time and again to unsympathetic union leaders.
“Like the IMF, Turkey says, if you do it, it’s going to be good for you. It shows a lot of carrots. But if you don’t do it, you’ll hit the wall. Then there will be a day when you won’t be able to pay your salaries. And if you keep borrowing, there is the danger that you’ll disturb the banking sector,” Tatar explains. He says the protocol his government signed with Ankara will cap ‘government’ borrowing and raise taxes in order to reduce a budget deficit that currently runs at around 300 million dollars annually. The figure makes up 11.6 per cent of the north’s 3.5 billion dollar GDP, and currently Turkey foots the bill for two thirds of the deficit. The other third it expects the ‘TRNC’ to come up with.
“It’s been hell,” says Tatar of his efforts to come up with that third. But despite the stomach ulcer he may now have from the pressures of balancing the demands of Ankara and the unions, he says he has managed some degree of success.
“We have managed to raise the income from taxes from 1.5 to 1.8 billion dollars in a year”. He said he’s done this by cutting back on expenditure, and by cutting state sector workers’ salaries by delinking them from inflation. He says his success at collecting taxes is “not bad by EU standards”. He is also happy to report that his ‘ministry’ has recently spent five million dollars creating a new tax office.
Unfortunately, much of the increase in taxation has come from indirect taxation on imported products rather than on incomes. However, Tatar’s ability to lay on the taxes, even indirectly, are limited by the ability of Turkish Cypriot consumers to cross the Green Line and do their shopping in supermarkets in the south.
So naturally, Tatar is hounding out new sources of tax income, and one source he knows exists is undeclared income, in particular for service sold by professionals like doctors and lawyers.
“We also tried to tax the super pensioners, but the constitutional court overruled it, so we couldn’t”. One thing he was able to do however was cut starter salaries in the public sector.
“This we did to encourage people to take jobs in the private sector”. Parity between the two sectors is the Holy Grail as far as Tatar is concerned.
Perhaps most importantly, at least for the longer term, is the protocol’s stipulation that allows only one new ‘state’ employee be taken on in replacement for each two that retire or leave their jobs. In this way Tatar aims to reduce the number of public sector employees from 17,000 to 14,000.
Another contentious part of the austerity protocol also calls on the breakaway state to enact a programme of privatisation, starting this year with the selloff of Ercan (Tymbou) Airport, which Tatar says can raise the authority’s tax collector around 300 million dollars.
He will also seek in the coming months to launch the privatisation of the north’s telecom facility, but this time not because of losses (apparently it isn’t losing money) but because of a vision emanating from either his office or one in Ankara that as a private enterprise the body would be “more innovative and more open to new technologies”. Furthermore, Tatar believes, the north’s phone network could feasibly become a hub for telecommunications between Turkey and the Middle East. While accepting that bids for these selloffs would almost exclusively come from large Turkish-owned companies, Tatar insisted a non-Turkish outfit had shown interest in buying Turkish Cypriot Telecomm, which he hopes to sell “within a year”.
He also hopes to sell off the electricity provider KIBTEK, although he acknowledges this is “going to be difficult”. The union representing KIBTEK workers is already threatening to “plunge the TRNC into darkness”.
While Tatar says he accepts the concerns of Turkish Cypriots who feel the community’s assets are being sold off to Turkish big business, he insists Turkish Cypriot businessmen can “join together” to make bids against or in partnership with their mainlander competitors.
“What’s the alternative?” he asks. “At the end of the day, you can’t quarrel with Turkey.”

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/turkey/auste ... t/20110220

[ZoC]

Tatar cites “political reasons” for the mess and gives ‘state’ broadcaster BRTK, which has 700 people on the payroll for “a job that could be done by 200”, as an example of how things have gone awry.

u can see why halil's revolting...

[All4114All]

Dear Kikapu,

Your vision is something I don’t deny for a true democracy and federation working in a united Cyprus but the implementation is another matter something to consider from both sides of the dividing line. I have stated before that I am all for a federation Cyprus united under democracy rule and not a confederation, the reason I bring up confederation is because while under a united banner we must build trust from politics to the average person drinking coffee in their local coffee shop. If we forget about the average person then the system will fail as we are witnessing in the Arab world.

Now I have lived and breathed in Australia before moving to Cyprus for personal reasons and in Australia you understand true democracy and a federation at work in fact you take it for granted until you live in Cyprus.

Now I will decode your reply,

As long as the occupation is present in the north by Turkey, it would be hard for most GCs not to feel vengeful, wouldn't you say.?

The same can be said that the international community has turned a blind eye on the atrocities from the G/C and not condemning there actions on T/C for over 11 years. So you must bite the bullet from both sides.

Not that I deny anyone to return to their property but why do you value property more than human life? Where are the several billions of dollars to compensate the T/C which lived in enclaves for over 11 years?

In regards to the flag on the mountain I cannot comment because I am against such display, but you might want to ask the south to also remove Greek flags and about two weeks ago while on a trip to Trodos a village that displays the EOKA erected on a hillside. Flag is one thing but terrorist organisation is another.

You have made valid recommendations which I cannot argue return of homes, flag off the mountain and TA to go home but I see no concessions given by the south as stated before this is not a solution this is an order with nothing at the end.

We must try and not repeat history that is why we all must work together for the future of Cyprus although I am puzzled sometimes why are we forcing this marriage when clearly the two sides are not a perfect couple while countries are partitioned and divided in referendums around the world. Your theory on True Democracy and Federation only will work in a perfect ideal world in Cyprus me and you would love this to happen, on the other hand for me to see such a system would be like standing on an active fault line waiting for an earthquake to start seeing the cracks if I speak for Cyprus today.

Thank you for the link I had a read and then I continue to read a few pages VP makes valid points in your structure and high risk scenario but I will not indulge on the issue here because we may repeat what has already been said.

My assumptions are not that every federation started from a confederation as I have already mentioned above a confederation will at least start the ball rolling to build trust between the two sides and maybe many years later we can go to a referendum to vote to become a federation. What I am composing is that as an example the GDP from South Cyprus and GDP of North Cyprus will benefit a joint Trust Fund for the United Cyprus that way both sides are working towards a single goal. South Cyprus can tap into markets and North Cyprus can tap into other markets. So on the surface it may look like a confederation working but on the ground both sides are working on a federation. The risks will be much lower knowing the history of Cyprus.

Finally, me and you may see eye to eye but we drift apart on our views when we look in depth into the Cyprus division and security to safeguard the T/C.

Personal Q. Now everyone is at liberty to express there own views and thoughts, sometimes we agree, sometimes we disagree, but I am pretty sure you mentioned that you are a T/C but in every post you go against the T/C views and support the G/C while you don't see anything wrong on their part. Can I ask why? You can see from the above post that even me as a T/C will agree some actions are not right example the flag on the moutain but at the same time I will defend the T/C stand however you do none of this.

[DT.]

Not that I deny anyone to return to their property but why do you value property more than human life? Where are the several billions of dollars to compensate the T/C which lived in enclaves for over 11 years?

No problem, the dead of the GC's is 10 times more than the TC so let me know when you start paying up. I got a couple of dead relatives courtesy of Turkish peace operations that I want to collect from.

In regards to the flag on the mountain I cannot comment because I am against such display, but you might want to ask the south to also remove Greek flags and about two weeks ago while on a trip to Trodos a village that displays the EOKA erected on a hillside. Flag is one thing but terrorist organisation is another.

EOKA was not a terrorist organisation. EOKA B was a terrorist organisation. And there is no village in Troodos that I've seen with that on the hillside. DO you mind telling me the name of the village?

You have made valid recommendations which I cannot argue return of homes, flag off the mountain and TA to go home but I see no concessions given by the south as stated before this is not a solution this is an order with nothing at the end.

What do you call
- rotating presidency
- 50,000 settlers to remain

Could you let me know what are the Turkish concessions in return for these? I heard Eroglu presented in Geneva his latest concession of 2 soveriegn states that can enter into international agreements on their own.....Thanks@

[georgios100]

There is no question, the austerity measures are in the horizon, to be installed regardless of the protests of both labor unions & politicians.

The possibility of the "trnc" going bust is minimal. At least for now. Austerity measures is equal to buying time to further the negotiations for a solution and another "tool" of Erdogan to use in the upcoming elections in Turkey. Keeping a lid to the black hole, sweeping the problem under the rug, no sence in opening a can of worms.

"trnc" labor unions will be forced into submission one way or another. I just don't see how the TCs can avoid that or fight it. Unlike the Egyptians, the situation in the north can not be compared nor used as an example of a revolt.

But the numbers don't lie. The "ecomony" in the north is unsustainable. Something has to give. Unification of the island is a way out. If the TC leadership does not stand up to Turkey's policies, the north will eventually become one more Ghetto, a shandy town of Ankara.

Pity. The TC leadership does not have vision or guts or power or the will to do what's right... so be it.

[All4114All]

DT wrote

No problem, the dead of the GC's is 10 times more than the TC so let me know when you start paying up. I got a couple of dead relatives courtesy of Turkish peace operations that I want to collect from.

I never put a value on human life with another human life saying that T/C blood is more valuable than G/C blood both communities have suffered and loss of life. My comment is directed at property vs human life, because I see life more valuable than property values. But if we take away the human factor then we can base our arguement on property vs enclaves and economic burden on the T/C. Not the TRNC but the citizens.

DT wrote

EOKA was not a terrorist organisation. EOKA B was a terrorist organisation. And there is no village in Troodos that I've seen with that on the hillside. DO you mind telling me the name of the village?

I was dissapointed that I did not see the village name which I was trying to look for but be sure if I take another trip I will stop to take a photo and upload it.

DT wrote

What do you call
- rotating presidency
- 50,000 settlers to remain

Could you let me know what are the Turkish concessions in return for these? I heard Eroglu presented in Geneva his latest concession of 2 soveriegn states that can enter into international agreements on their own.....Thanks@

Before I give my comments you might want to take it up with your National Council, government coalition partner DIKO former EDEK who if memory serves me correct issued a poll in 2010 which overwhelm G/C voted and expressed opposition for a rotating presidency. So these concessions are nothing more than words which Mr Christofias probably regrets doing once the backlash came from within his government.

Mr Eroglu well let me just say I am not a fan of his so his outright vision of dividing the island into two complete seperate identities doesn't make him any better than Denktash.

[Kikapu]

Dear Kikapu,

Your vision is something I don’t deny for a true democracy and federation working in a united Cyprus but the implementation is another matter something to consider from both sides of the dividing line. I have stated before that I am all for a federation Cyprus united under democracy rule and not a confederation, the reason I bring up confederation is because while under a united banner we must build trust from politics to the average person drinking coffee in their local coffee shop. If we forget about the average person then the system will fail as we are witnessing in the Arab world.

I have already told you why Confederation cannot be the solution for many different reasons to solve the problems of Cyprus. It would only make it worse even if we were to ignore the reasons as to why Confederation is not possible. Lets stick to what things are possible, just because that's what the agreements are based on, BBF with FEDERATION.

Now I have lived and breathed in Australia before moving to Cyprus for personal reasons and in Australia you understand true democracy and a federation at work in fact you take it for granted until you live in Cyprus.

And I have lived for 25 years in the USA under a Federation system of government and country. Now I live in a Federation system of government, BUT in a CONFEDERATION country, and the reason why it works in Switzerland is, it is because all the Cantons has meet all the thresholds to form a Confederation country. This is not possible in Cyprus, so lets move on from talking about Confederation. It is pointless..

Now I will decode your reply,

As long as the occupation is present in the north by Turkey, it would be hard for most GCs not to feel vengeful, wouldn't you say.?

The same can be said that the international community has turned a blind eye on the atrocities from the G/C and not condemning there actions on T/C for over 11 years. So you must bite the bullet from both sides.

What kind of "Enigma" machine are you using to decode my post, because I don't think you had succeeded at all.

What does the above have anything to what we are talking about, which you have made the claim that that the GCs are waiting to avenge the TCs, which you have not proven btw, to what has happened in the past and the International community, even if what you stated above to be true. Lets not bounce all over the place like a beach ball......please.

Not that I deny anyone to return to their property but why do you value property more than human life? Where are the several billions of dollars to compensate the T/C which lived in enclaves for over 11 years?

Listen my friend, I think you are generally a good guy and means well, but at the same time, you need to learn to stick to the topic at hand and don't go on to things that are not relevant or even for them to be true. I'm willing to cut you slack now and then, but if you continue to become disrespectful by putting words into my mouth that are inaccurate, I will not take your posts seriously, just because you run out of things to say relating to the original post from yourself that I was responding to. Where the hell have I ever said that I put more value on property than I do on life.?? What ever crimes that has been committed on all Cypriots by the Fascists of both sides in the past, may they all rest i peace, does not alleviate the crimes that are still taking place today by keeping people off their properties. Stay in the present because that's where we are.

In regards to the flag on the mountain I cannot comment because I am against such display, but you might want to ask the south to also remove Greek flags and about two weeks ago while on a trip to Trodos a village that displays the EOKA erected on a hillside. Flag is one thing but terrorist organisation is another.

Some people still fly the Confederate Flag in the south of USA, so what.? Are you saying that having that flag on the "graffiti mountain" in the north where half the island can see it, is the same as the EOKA flag on some hill in the south where you have to drive to it to see....maybe.

You have made valid recommendations which I cannot argue return of homes, flag off the mountain and TA to go home but I see no concessions given by the south as stated before this is not a solution this is an order with nothing at the end.

I have already stated the benefits given to the TCs to improve their day to day lives as well as concessions made at the negotiations for a settlement. What has the north given in return. Please give me a list.!

We must try and not repeat history that is why we all must work together for the future of Cyprus although I am puzzled sometimes why are we forcing this marriage when clearly the two sides are not a perfect couple while countries are partitioned and divided in referendums around the world. Your theory on True Democracy and Federation only will work in a perfect ideal world in Cyprus me and you would love this to happen, on the other hand for me to see such a system would be like standing on an active fault line waiting for an earthquake to start seeing the cracks if I speak for Cyprus today.

There doesn't need to be a forced marriage. No. Anyone can choose not to take part in the Democratic system for Cyprus, but they shouldn't be able to stop the rest of the Cypriots to form what ever marriage they want together. Also, no one should be allowed to force thousands of people from their land and then use that land to declare another state in order to try and form a "partnership" or talk of partition. This is not how countries that have decided to partition their country through a referendum works. I'm surprised you do not see that.?

Thank you for the link I had a read and then I continue to read a few pages VP makes valid points in your structure and high risk scenario but I will not indulge on the issue here because we may repeat what has already been said.

VP points were all addressed to a point where VP makes pointless claims, so don't be in a too hurry to suggest that there are "high risk scenarios" until you have read the whole thread. The fact that VP is an open Fascist NeoPartitionist, I'm even more surprised that you take anything VP says regarding Democracy and Human Rights seriously, but that's your choice. Just don't be too surprised if you get ridiculed for quoting VP positions as to what the so called "high risk scenarios" claims are.!

My assumptions are not that every federation started from a confederation as I have already mentioned above a confederation will at least start the ball rolling to build trust between the two sides and maybe many years later we can go to a referendum to vote to become a federation. What I am composing is that as an example the GDP from South Cyprus and GDP of North Cyprus will benefit a joint Trust Fund for the United Cyprus that way both sides are working towards a single goal. South Cyprus can tap into markets and North Cyprus can tap into other markets. So on the surface it may look like a confederation working but on the ground both sides are working on a federation. The risks will be much lower knowing the history of Cyprus.

All that you have written above are all very nice gestures, but a Confederation for the Fascist NeoPartitionist it means nothing. All they would end up doing is, is to get the3 north into the EU and have Turkey control the rest of the island per the Annan Plan. If that is your personal wish also, then keep pushing for Confederation, not that it will ever happen. There will be a formal partition before Confederation will happen. There's no way that the GCs are going to risk the RoC to become part of a Confederation with the "trnc", and then kiss the north goodbye as well as have Turkey breathing down their necks. But hey, I'm not a GC and I don't know. Perhaps that's what they would want it to happen, but i don't think so, or else they would not have voted OXI to the Annan Plan in 2004.

Finally, me and you may see eye to eye but we drift apart on our views when we look in depth into the Cyprus division and security to safeguard the T/C.

How so.? There is a BBF on the table that has been agreed on and the RoC is in the EU which the EU Principles would apply. Those are the tools I'm using to reach my possible outcome. What tools are you using to reach your conclusions.?

Personal Q. Now everyone is at liberty to express there own views and thoughts, sometimes we agree, sometimes we disagree, but I am pretty sure you mentioned that you are a T/C but in every post you go against the T/C views and support the G/C while you don't see anything wrong on their part. Can I ask why? You can see from the above post that even me as a T/C will agree some actions are not right example the flag on the moutain but at the same time I will defend the T/C stand however you do none of this.

The fact that I do not agree with the ones (TCs) who are Racist Fascist NeoPartitonist does not mean I do not support TCs in a Democratic, Human Rights, International law and EU Principles Cyprus. Where an earth did you get your assumptions from.? Must I agree with those Fascist in the north who only want partition in order to be seen as I'm a pro TC.? Are you for real.? I support TCs in every way that they can move from the "Corrupt Society" their leaders built for them to become an "Honest Society". I argue against the corrupt and the incompetent fools in the north that has promised the TCs the moon and have delivered nothing in the last 50 years, except delivering the TCs to Turkey to do with them as she wishes. I'm not even going to talk about all the settlers they have brought to Cyprus to replace the TCs, all this done with the corrupt and immoral leaders in the north along with Turkey. If you feel like you can support the regime in the north for what they have done to the TCs, then I guess you are a bigger man than I am. I cannot.

What I support from the GCs side are Democracy, Human Rights, International Law and the EU Principles for Cyprus. Anything wrong in that.? As a matter of fact, why aren't you since you have lived in a Democratic country of Australia.?? Show me where I have ever supported any of the crimes committed by the GCs on the TCs, to be in the past or recent. Once again you are making assumption that you cannot support your argument. Try to be more objective as i have been that make slogans that you may feel that you need to make, just because you now live in the north. You do not need to follow the examples set by the Fascist in the north for you to make your comments, and if you make unfounded comments, expect to be hit over the head with them.

Now let me ask you few personal questions.

1. Where you born in Cyprus or are you just like VP who was not born in Cyprus, but who came to the island for the first time to settle when he was 30+ years old from the UK.?

2. If you were born in Cyprus, what have you seen of the Cyprus conflict from 1963 to 1974.?

3. How are you able to live in the north in a "corrupted society" from the one you lived in Australia.?

4. How much GC property is held by your immediate family and relatives and what are their views on Democracy and Human Rights as well as their views on BBF in the form of FEDERATION, or do they also think there should be a Confederation.?

That will do for now.....thanks.

[Viewpoint]

Personal Q. Now everyone is at liberty to express there own views and thoughts, sometimes we agree, sometimes we disagree, but I am pretty sure you mentioned that you are a T/C but in every post you go against the T/C views and support the G/C while you don't see anything wrong on their part. Can I ask why? You can see from the above post that even me as a T/C will agree some actions are not right example the flag on the moutain but at the same time I will defend the T/C stand however you do none of this.

Someone else who can see right through your biased one sided views.