Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

VP

Whether I support the Kurds or not is not important here we should be more concerned about this island, look at it from this angle what if I supported the Kurds getting their own country would you accept the same for the TCs?

It would make your argument more valid, credible and you would not be a hypocrite

Circumstances are not he same but I do support the Kurds getting their own state if they no longer want to live with Turks. Now can you support the same for us?

[ZoC]

VP

Whether I support the Kurds or not is not important here we should be more concerned about this island, look at it from this angle what if I supported the Kurds getting their own country would you accept the same for the TCs?

It would make your argument more valid, credible and you would not be a hypocrite

Circumstances are not he same but I do support the Kurds getting their own state if they no longer want to live with Turks. Now can you support the same for us?

circumstance are not the same but i for one would support u getting ur own state (turkey, minus the kurdish areas) if kurds no longer want to live with turks.

[Viewpoint]

VP

Whether I support the Kurds or not is not important here we should be more concerned about this island, look at it from this angle what if I supported the Kurds getting their own country would you accept the same for the TCs?

It would make your argument more valid, credible and you would not be a hypocrite

Circumstances are not he same but I do support the Kurds getting their own state if they no longer want to live with Turks. Now can you support the same for us?

circumstance are not the same but i for one would support u getting ur own state (turkey, minus the kurdish areas) if kurds no longer want to live with turks.

Mumbo jumbo yet again please try and be more literate.

[antifon]

antifon

Referring to the EU as a useless body is both wrong and highly offensive. I understand it constitutes a healthy part of neo-Ottoman self-aggrandizement but it has no bearing to reality. You do not seem to trust many people as a community. You know, if you are on the highway and more than one cars is headed in the opposite direction you should start questioning whether you yourself are on the correct side of the highway. The "feel sorry" for us story simply does not wash anymore. Get out of your propaganda prison. It is much nicer, healthier outside.

As you have probably worked out I am not a pro EU person, they do not keep their word as we have experienced and can not be counted on in moments of crisis.

You cannot just dismiss our concerns they are real enough and just trying to rid yourselves of having to address them will not wash or make them go anyway, its time you tried to understand and accommodate them otherwise we will get nowhere as we have been doing for over 50 years.

On the issue of mistrust, see my answer above & grow up in Allah's name. Or even Buddha's. The boogeyman is long gone. You need to update your children storytelling narratives. On the issue of the Kurds, a more honest answer from you would have been to at least express your sympathy to their cause. After all they a 20 million strong ethnic community, or circa 25% of population, who do not even have the right to speak their language. In any case, I make a very convincing, as well as entertaining, comparative politics case on my blog. Explore it. http://antifon.blogspot.com You will especially enjoy this little story: http://antifon.blogspot.com/2010/12/wil ... er-be.html

Whether I support the Kurds or not is not important here we should be more concerned about this island, look at it from this angle what if I supported the Kurds getting their own country would you accept the same for the TCs?

The boogeyman's analogy is getting rather annoying and I wish you would stop throwing childish innuendos that de mine our fears and concerns. We do not trust each other so just saying you have no right to distrust us does not make it so, we have no sound reason to trust you. Your side has taken absolutely no steps beyond their bound duties to improve relations or win TCs over. In fact since the two sides started to interact things have gone down hill as people have discovered that the other side thinks no differently from 37 years ago when the island was divided.

I can dismiss Enosis extremely easily for the simple reason that it does not constitute at all part of gCypriot thinking. It once was popular. And, spending the majority of my time in Greece I can safely say that it is the thing furthest away from Greek thinking, not even registering on any politician's or group's radar. As a result it is not a matter of the solution being half-way, or mid-way, or 3/4 of the way between taksim and enosis. It does not make sense to think in these terms. The solution needs to address the needs of the Cypriot people. Period.

This is like saying we played with the bomb and it exploded did the damage but now we want to believe that it was not us that played with the bomb, taksim was the tcs response to gcs enosis you cannot just wipe it away the damage has been done which is what we live today, why is so difficult for you to understand accept and deal with, instead you choose to make excuses for it.

My friend, the safety that the "TRNC" provides is dangerous. It already chased away tens of thousands of tCypriots. And trust me, you will never feel 100% sure that the new solution will be better; but it will be with 100% degree certainty better that today for the entire tCypriot community and Cyprus as a whole. You have no choice but to trust gCypriots. Turkey may not give you an alternative.

With all due respects its worked very well for over 37 years and will continue to protect those that choose to live in the TRNC, our population has increase for every person that leaves there are thousands of new generations TCs, do you not embrace all the people that live in the south? We are not stupid and can decide if a solution is will be better than what we have today, we said yes to one plan, you have rejected everything placed before you and the world has witnessed this, can your side afford to walk away once again? I do have a choice not to trust GCs by remaining well and truly bound to the TRNC and Turkey so your saying we have no choice does not make it so.

Why do you place RoC in quotes? You do not recognize it?

Without TC representation, no i do not recognize it.

I am happy to see that despite your low opinion of the EU you recognize its existence.

Recognize but not respect.

I think that we agree that Cypriots should be able to reside where ever they choose.

If a comprehensive solution is found where our rights and security are protected of course.

The boogeyman again. Exaggerated concerns must be overcome one way or the other or paralysis ensues.

Stop this as you are insulting me and many TCs you have no right to dismiss our concerns just because you do not want to address them.

In time you will feel confident.

You have given us no reason to feel so in fact quite the opposite, you still have people who claim Cyprus is a Greek island.

I have waited 40 years. How much longer do you need? If for your fears to be eased I have to forget Lapithos and Keryneia, or forfeit my right to ownership,

The knife cuts both way we to have property in the south we cannot claim or has been demolished.

My fears will only go away if they are addressed and not dismissed this only reinforces them, I hope you start to understand.

or give you the right to block the normal functioning of the state, then I am sorry. I do not have that luxury.

What if its to our detriment or against our will?

This does not mean that I will force you to live under me or control you. It simply means that life must go on..

How will you achieve this as the leaders have been unable to find a balance.

In time you will learn to trust.

Dismissing our concerns does not help.

I am sure however that a good number of tCypriots have overcome their fears, especially those currently living abroad who will choose to return, and they will help instill the confidence required into the rest of tCypriots. Yes we can, Viewpoint!

The ones I know and I am from the UK are firm BBF supporters, they want a 2 state solution.

Boogeyman! Read the god-damn document. Negotiate it. Give something, ask for something in return. Or forget 1963 and negotiate a BBF. No matter what you do, think ENOSIS, not TAKSIM! Union of Cypriots, not separation! Enhancing integration, not division. OK? You will make all our lives much easier. My personal preference is a solution based on a negotiated 1963 http://antifon.blogspot.com/2010/12/pre ... osals.html . Why a BBF when in 20 years time we will all be living intermixed all over Cyprus as it used to be. A unitary state, always in my opinion, will be easier to run and less expensive! I am a fairly nice guy, am I not? Get used to me. I am returning to Lapithos the day after the solution is signed! I will even boost your confidence by playing you a game of chess, a game I love but I suck at!!

I support a BBF solution and not a return to the past as psychologically for TCs this would mean defeat and a forcing of makarios's plan to rid the island of its TC population therefore being able to freely gift Cyprus to Greece.

I hope one day you get to return to your village but without a comprehensive solution with a structure that will address our concerns and guarantee that there are 2 states where GCs administer the south and the TCs the north we will not be seeing a solution in our life time.

It really doesnt matter how nice you are or if we play chess you cannot force us to live together in a unitary state where Gcs will naturally rule supreme and we will be onlookers or feel like tourists in our own country , we have to be given the freedom to choose under which administration we wish to live.

How will you receive my answer since you already think that I do not know gCypriots well enough. Anyhow, assuming I know their thinking well, then gCypriots will jump at the opportunity to negotiate 1963. They will be ecstatic. As I have amply explained though already, they cannot risk initiating it. tCypriots must somehow get the message across in an official manner, that as BBF is disucssed under the aegis of the UN they wish to hold talks with our Dimitris face-to-face to also investigate other possibilities.

This will never happen as the Tcs will never be placed in a position to lick up what they spat out (a Turkish saying) (rejected) so many years ago. So imho you are flogging a dead horse.

We want to move on Viewpoint and you are making it difficult for all of us! The EU which you frown upon (I think you do not mean it) offers a huge platform for Cypriot excellence and distinction in so many fields. I am confident that you are, tCypriots, the most secular and European Muslim community anywhere in Europe!

So you want us to throw away everything so you can move on and get what you dream of, a GC state, well it ain't gonna happen and not trusting the EU and their one sided support I doubt Tcs care very much for using their rickety old stage to excell on when it son the verge of collapse.

Together we can truly dominate our region. Adding one plus one, or 0,4+1,6, choose your preference Cypriots, will not add up to two, it will add up to 4 or 10! Let's make it happen. Let's remember, let's forgive, let's commemorate, but above all let's chart a new course for Cyprus! For Cypriots!

Dominate the region??? really come on be realistic you are a donkey trying to be a race horse well no one is buying it in fact they are laughing behind your backs.

Your chants are very inspiring but when your whole future is on the line and you are asked to take a leap of faith into the arms of your past enemy I think you should be more apprehensive and demand that your fears and concerns be fully addressed and not dismissed.

A leap of faith is required, before too late. gCypriots will not disappoint you this time. They are ready since long ago. You "owe" them, and above all yourselves, that much! Let's make it a Cypriot "revolution" with no t's or g's attached.

Pure utopia, what are you on? We do not see it this way we trust the GCs less today than we did prior to the borders being opened, there has to be a strong BBF structure that will not allow either side to step over the line ever again and guarantees that will act as a deterrent to ensure everyone's security.

Ps. I see trilingual Cypriots, in Turkish, Greek and English, with no employment worries over the next three decades at least!

Without security and safety being guaranteed none of what you offer is worth a fig.

antifon I really think you have to re-evaluate your ideology TCs do not trust GCs one iota (im sure the GCs don't trust us) and will never do so until they experience positive developments to show they do not want revenge for the past and are willing to share the island equally in a BBF structure, without domination and exploiting their numerical advantage to take control over the whole island which you yourself have exposed by stating that a BBF will develop into a unitary state which is one of our greatest fears thats why we demand measures that will stop this form happening so as not to lose our effective say in our future.

Viewpoint,

I read with great care what you wrote. I will try and address one by one your concerns, fears, feelings, but in all honesty I already know it to be a futile exercise when it comes to you personally. I will do it however (not tonight) for the sake of others who follow us here and may be interested to know what the answers are from a gCypriot.

A majority of tCypriots living in Cyprus is being composed as we speak who are already pushing their leaders, not necessarily the "elected" ones, in the direction of a compromise, an honorable and fair compromise influenced by the logical principles contained in the 1963 document. http://antifon.blogspot.com/2010/12/pre ... osals.html

Time is running out for the tCypriots, I think we can all agree on that point. However, with Christofias at the helm, you can still expect a very fair negotiation, no matter the developments in the illegally occupied land of Cyprus. http://antifon.blogspot.com/2011/02/sal ... ofias.html

As I have stated many times, a BBF based on 1960's "equality" and "logic" will be twice as bad as 1960. It will never be accepted by gCypriots. That leaves occupied Cyprus as a huge thorn on Turkey's back & your community in shambles (at least the remains thereof on the island).

There is one thing perhaps that escapes you. The winds have changed and they are behind Cyprus' sails. The question is fast becoming not 'what are Turkey's strategic interests in Cyprus', but with Turkey making "illogical" choices on various fronts, it becomes 'what are the EU's and the USA's, in short the west's, interests in Cyprus?'. Cyprus's Turkeyish problem becomes the west's problem. With the west feeling uneasy about Turkey, then it becomes your problem as well. Am I getting the point across? http://antifon.blogspot.com/2011/02/cyp ... oblem.html

Last (for this first brief response), your unwillingness to address the Kurdish issue of Turkey and compare it to your own situation speaks volumes. The last thing you want is for the simple comparison to be made.

Read about it on my blog http://antifon.blogspot.com & do not be alarmed when soon heavy-weight officials from the EU, which you don't like but that is totally irrelevant in the greater scheme of things, will raise the comparison in order to kill two birds with one stone, politely suggesting to Turkey that messing in other people's internal affairs gives them the very same right, especially when her problem, the Kurdish, resembles greatly Cyprus' Turkeyish problem.

Do you feel that will upset Erdogan? IMHO it will.

The world is changing my friend.
Have a good night!



Is meddling in Turkey's affairs fair play?
http://antifon.blogspot.com/2010/12/new ... -late.html


.

[ZoC]

VP

Whether I support the Kurds or not is not important here we should be more concerned about this island, look at it from this angle what if I supported the Kurds getting their own country would you accept the same for the TCs?

It would make your argument more valid, credible and you would not be a hypocrite

Circumstances are not he same but I do support the Kurds getting their own state if they no longer want to live with Turks. Now can you support the same for us?

circumstance are not the same but i for one would support u getting ur own state (turkey, minus the kurdish areas) if kurds no longer want to live with turks.

Mumbo jumbo yet again please try and be more literate.

wot i said makes perfect sense to anyone with a reading age of seven and up. i even use text speak so the youngsters can keep up.

[antifon]

VP

Whether I support the Kurds or not is not important here we should be more concerned about this island, look at it from this angle what if I supported the Kurds getting their own country would you accept the same for the TCs?

It would make your argument more valid, credible and you would not be a hypocrite

Circumstances are not he same but I do support the Kurds getting their own state if they no longer want to live with Turks. Now can you support the same for us?

circumstance are not the same but i for one would support u getting ur own state (turkey, minus the kurdish areas) if kurds no longer want to live with turks.

Mumbo jumbo yet again please try and be more literate.

wot i said makes perfect sense to anyone with a reading age of seven and up. i even use text speak so the youngsters can keep up.

Having celebrated my 7th b-day not long ago I wish to confirm ZoC's assertion.



http://http://antifon.blogspot.com/
.

[wyoming cowboy]

VP

Whether I support the Kurds or not is not important here we should be more concerned about this island, look at it from this angle what if I supported the Kurds getting their own country would you accept the same for the TCs?

It would make your argument more valid, credible and you would not be a hypocrite

Circumstances are not he same but I do support the Kurds getting their own state if they no longer want to live with Turks. Now can you support the same for us?

circumstance are not the same but i for one would support u getting ur own state (turkey, minus the kurdish areas) if kurds no longer want to live with turks.

Mumbo jumbo yet again please try and be more literate.

wot i said makes perfect sense to anyone with a reading age of seven and up. i even use text speak so the youngsters can keep up.

ZoC i think vp needs another lesson in squeeling like a pig....

[antifon]

I hope you will enjoy my latest brief post, titled 'What a mess!!!'':

http://antifon.blogspot.com/2011/02/what-mess.html#more

[Viewpoint]

antifon

Referring to the EU as a useless body is both wrong and highly offensive. I understand it constitutes a healthy part of neo-Ottoman self-aggrandizement but it has no bearing to reality. You do not seem to trust many people as a community. You know, if you are on the highway and more than one cars is headed in the opposite direction you should start questioning whether you yourself are on the correct side of the highway. The "feel sorry" for us story simply does not wash anymore. Get out of your propaganda prison. It is much nicer, healthier outside.

As you have probably worked out I am not a pro EU person, they do not keep their word as we have experienced and can not be counted on in moments of crisis.

You cannot just dismiss our concerns they are real enough and just trying to rid yourselves of having to address them will not wash or make them go anyway, its time you tried to understand and accommodate them otherwise we will get nowhere as we have been doing for over 50 years.

On the issue of mistrust, see my answer above & grow up in Allah's name. Or even Buddha's. The boogeyman is long gone. You need to update your children storytelling narratives. On the issue of the Kurds, a more honest answer from you would have been to at least express your sympathy to their cause. After all they a 20 million strong ethnic community, or circa 25% of population, who do not even have the right to speak their language. In any case, I make a very convincing, as well as entertaining, comparative politics case on my blog. Explore it. http://antifon.blogspot.com You will especially enjoy this little story: http://antifon.blogspot.com/2010/12/wil ... er-be.html

Whether I support the Kurds or not is not important here we should be more concerned about this island, look at it from this angle what if I supported the Kurds getting their own country would you accept the same for the TCs?

The boogeyman's analogy is getting rather annoying and I wish you would stop throwing childish innuendos that de mine our fears and concerns. We do not trust each other so just saying you have no right to distrust us does not make it so, we have no sound reason to trust you. Your side has taken absolutely no steps beyond their bound duties to improve relations or win TCs over. In fact since the two sides started to interact things have gone down hill as people have discovered that the other side thinks no differently from 37 years ago when the island was divided.

I can dismiss Enosis extremely easily for the simple reason that it does not constitute at all part of gCypriot thinking. It once was popular. And, spending the majority of my time in Greece I can safely say that it is the thing furthest away from Greek thinking, not even registering on any politician's or group's radar. As a result it is not a matter of the solution being half-way, or mid-way, or 3/4 of the way between taksim and enosis. It does not make sense to think in these terms. The solution needs to address the needs of the Cypriot people. Period.

This is like saying we played with the bomb and it exploded did the damage but now we want to believe that it was not us that played with the bomb, taksim was the tcs response to gcs enosis you cannot just wipe it away the damage has been done which is what we live today, why is so difficult for you to understand accept and deal with, instead you choose to make excuses for it.

My friend, the safety that the "TRNC" provides is dangerous. It already chased away tens of thousands of tCypriots. And trust me, you will never feel 100% sure that the new solution will be better; but it will be with 100% degree certainty better that today for the entire tCypriot community and Cyprus as a whole. You have no choice but to trust gCypriots. Turkey may not give you an alternative.

With all due respects its worked very well for over 37 years and will continue to protect those that choose to live in the TRNC, our population has increase for every person that leaves there are thousands of new generations TCs, do you not embrace all the people that live in the south? We are not stupid and can decide if a solution is will be better than what we have today, we said yes to one plan, you have rejected everything placed before you and the world has witnessed this, can your side afford to walk away once again? I do have a choice not to trust GCs by remaining well and truly bound to the TRNC and Turkey so your saying we have no choice does not make it so.

Why do you place RoC in quotes? You do not recognize it?

Without TC representation, no i do not recognize it.

I am happy to see that despite your low opinion of the EU you recognize its existence.

Recognize but not respect.

I think that we agree that Cypriots should be able to reside where ever they choose.

If a comprehensive solution is found where our rights and security are protected of course.

The boogeyman again. Exaggerated concerns must be overcome one way or the other or paralysis ensues.

Stop this as you are insulting me and many TCs you have no right to dismiss our concerns just because you do not want to address them.

In time you will feel confident.

You have given us no reason to feel so in fact quite the opposite, you still have people who claim Cyprus is a Greek island.

I have waited 40 years. How much longer do you need? If for your fears to be eased I have to forget Lapithos and Keryneia, or forfeit my right to ownership,

The knife cuts both way we to have property in the south we cannot claim or has been demolished.

My fears will only go away if they are addressed and not dismissed this only reinforces them, I hope you start to understand.

or give you the right to block the normal functioning of the state, then I am sorry. I do not have that luxury.

What if its to our detriment or against our will?

This does not mean that I will force you to live under me or control you. It simply means that life must go on..

How will you achieve this as the leaders have been unable to find a balance.

In time you will learn to trust.

Dismissing our concerns does not help.

I am sure however that a good number of tCypriots have overcome their fears, especially those currently living abroad who will choose to return, and they will help instill the confidence required into the rest of tCypriots. Yes we can, Viewpoint!

The ones I know and I am from the UK are firm BBF supporters, they want a 2 state solution.

Boogeyman! Read the god-damn document. Negotiate it. Give something, ask for something in return. Or forget 1963 and negotiate a BBF. No matter what you do, think ENOSIS, not TAKSIM! Union of Cypriots, not separation! Enhancing integration, not division. OK? You will make all our lives much easier. My personal preference is a solution based on a negotiated 1963 http://antifon.blogspot.com/2010/12/pre ... osals.html . Why a BBF when in 20 years time we will all be living intermixed all over Cyprus as it used to be. A unitary state, always in my opinion, will be easier to run and less expensive! I am a fairly nice guy, am I not? Get used to me. I am returning to Lapithos the day after the solution is signed! I will even boost your confidence by playing you a game of chess, a game I love but I suck at!!

I support a BBF solution and not a return to the past as psychologically for TCs this would mean defeat and a forcing of makarios's plan to rid the island of its TC population therefore being able to freely gift Cyprus to Greece.

I hope one day you get to return to your village but without a comprehensive solution with a structure that will address our concerns and guarantee that there are 2 states where GCs administer the south and the TCs the north we will not be seeing a solution in our life time.

It really doesnt matter how nice you are or if we play chess you cannot force us to live together in a unitary state where Gcs will naturally rule supreme and we will be onlookers or feel like tourists in our own country , we have to be given the freedom to choose under which administration we wish to live.

How will you receive my answer since you already think that I do not know gCypriots well enough. Anyhow, assuming I know their thinking well, then gCypriots will jump at the opportunity to negotiate 1963. They will be ecstatic. As I have amply explained though already, they cannot risk initiating it. tCypriots must somehow get the message across in an official manner, that as BBF is disucssed under the aegis of the UN they wish to hold talks with our Dimitris face-to-face to also investigate other possibilities.

This will never happen as the Tcs will never be placed in a position to lick up what they spat out (a Turkish saying) (rejected) so many years ago. So imho you are flogging a dead horse.

We want to move on Viewpoint and you are making it difficult for all of us! The EU which you frown upon (I think you do not mean it) offers a huge platform for Cypriot excellence and distinction in so many fields. I am confident that you are, tCypriots, the most secular and European Muslim community anywhere in Europe!

So you want us to throw away everything so you can move on and get what you dream of, a GC state, well it ain't gonna happen and not trusting the EU and their one sided support I doubt Tcs care very much for using their rickety old stage to excell on when it son the verge of collapse.

Together we can truly dominate our region. Adding one plus one, or 0,4+1,6, choose your preference Cypriots, will not add up to two, it will add up to 4 or 10! Let's make it happen. Let's remember, let's forgive, let's commemorate, but above all let's chart a new course for Cyprus! For Cypriots!

Dominate the region??? really come on be realistic you are a donkey trying to be a race horse well no one is buying it in fact they are laughing behind your backs.

Your chants are very inspiring but when your whole future is on the line and you are asked to take a leap of faith into the arms of your past enemy I think you should be more apprehensive and demand that your fears and concerns be fully addressed and not dismissed.

A leap of faith is required, before too late. gCypriots will not disappoint you this time. They are ready since long ago. You "owe" them, and above all yourselves, that much! Let's make it a Cypriot "revolution" with no t's or g's attached.

Pure utopia, what are you on? We do not see it this way we trust the GCs less today than we did prior to the borders being opened, there has to be a strong BBF structure that will not allow either side to step over the line ever again and guarantees that will act as a deterrent to ensure everyone's security.

Ps. I see trilingual Cypriots, in Turkish, Greek and English, with no employment worries over the next three decades at least!

Without security and safety being guaranteed none of what you offer is worth a fig.

antifon I really think you have to re-evaluate your ideology TCs do not trust GCs one iota (im sure the GCs don't trust us) and will never do so until they experience positive developments to show they do not want revenge for the past and are willing to share the island equally in a BBF structure, without domination and exploiting their numerical advantage to take control over the whole island which you yourself have exposed by stating that a BBF will develop into a unitary state which is one of our greatest fears thats why we demand measures that will stop this form happening so as not to lose our effective say in our future.

Any chance of a response antifon?

[antifon]

antifon

Referring to the EU as a useless body is both wrong and highly offensive. I understand it constitutes a healthy part of neo-Ottoman self-aggrandizement but it has no bearing to reality. You do not seem to trust many people as a community. You know, if you are on the highway and more than one cars is headed in the opposite direction you should start questioning whether you yourself are on the correct side of the highway. The "feel sorry" for us story simply does not wash anymore. Get out of your propaganda prison. It is much nicer, healthier outside.

As you have probably worked out I am not a pro EU person, they do not keep their word as we have experienced and can not be counted on in moments of crisis.

You cannot just dismiss our concerns they are real enough and just trying to rid yourselves of having to address them will not wash or make them go anyway, its time you tried to understand and accommodate them otherwise we will get nowhere as we have been doing for over 50 years.

On the issue of mistrust, see my answer above & grow up in Allah's name. Or even Buddha's. The boogeyman is long gone. You need to update your children storytelling narratives. On the issue of the Kurds, a more honest answer from you would have been to at least express your sympathy to their cause. After all they a 20 million strong ethnic community, or circa 25% of population, who do not even have the right to speak their language. In any case, I make a very convincing, as well as entertaining, comparative politics case on my blog. Explore it. http://antifon.blogspot.com You will especially enjoy this little story: http://antifon.blogspot.com/2010/12/wil ... er-be.html

Whether I support the Kurds or not is not important here we should be more concerned about this island, look at it from this angle what if I supported the Kurds getting their own country would you accept the same for the TCs?

The boogeyman's analogy is getting rather annoying and I wish you would stop throwing childish innuendos that de mine our fears and concerns. We do not trust each other so just saying you have no right to distrust us does not make it so, we have no sound reason to trust you. Your side has taken absolutely no steps beyond their bound duties to improve relations or win TCs over. In fact since the two sides started to interact things have gone down hill as people have discovered that the other side thinks no differently from 37 years ago when the island was divided.

I can dismiss Enosis extremely easily for the simple reason that it does not constitute at all part of gCypriot thinking. It once was popular. And, spending the majority of my time in Greece I can safely say that it is the thing furthest away from Greek thinking, not even registering on any politician's or group's radar. As a result it is not a matter of the solution being half-way, or mid-way, or 3/4 of the way between taksim and enosis. It does not make sense to think in these terms. The solution needs to address the needs of the Cypriot people. Period.

This is like saying we played with the bomb and it exploded did the damage but now we want to believe that it was not us that played with the bomb, taksim was the tcs response to gcs enosis you cannot just wipe it away the damage has been done which is what we live today, why is so difficult for you to understand accept and deal with, instead you choose to make excuses for it.

My friend, the safety that the "TRNC" provides is dangerous. It already chased away tens of thousands of tCypriots. And trust me, you will never feel 100% sure that the new solution will be better; but it will be with 100% degree certainty better that today for the entire tCypriot community and Cyprus as a whole. You have no choice but to trust gCypriots. Turkey may not give you an alternative.

With all due respects its worked very well for over 37 years and will continue to protect those that choose to live in the TRNC, our population has increase for every person that leaves there are thousands of new generations TCs, do you not embrace all the people that live in the south? We are not stupid and can decide if a solution is will be better than what we have today, we said yes to one plan, you have rejected everything placed before you and the world has witnessed this, can your side afford to walk away once again? I do have a choice not to trust GCs by remaining well and truly bound to the TRNC and Turkey so your saying we have no choice does not make it so.

Why do you place RoC in quotes? You do not recognize it?

Without TC representation, no i do not recognize it.

I am happy to see that despite your low opinion of the EU you recognize its existence.

Recognize but not respect.

I think that we agree that Cypriots should be able to reside where ever they choose.

If a comprehensive solution is found where our rights and security are protected of course.

The boogeyman again. Exaggerated concerns must be overcome one way or the other or paralysis ensues.

Stop this as you are insulting me and many TCs you have no right to dismiss our concerns just because you do not want to address them.

In time you will feel confident.

You have given us no reason to feel so in fact quite the opposite, you still have people who claim Cyprus is a Greek island.

I have waited 40 years. How much longer do you need? If for your fears to be eased I have to forget Lapithos and Keryneia, or forfeit my right to ownership,

The knife cuts both way we to have property in the south we cannot claim or has been demolished.

My fears will only go away if they are addressed and not dismissed this only reinforces them, I hope you start to understand.

or give you the right to block the normal functioning of the state, then I am sorry. I do not have that luxury.

What if its to our detriment or against our will?

This does not mean that I will force you to live under me or control you. It simply means that life must go on..

How will you achieve this as the leaders have been unable to find a balance.

In time you will learn to trust.

Dismissing our concerns does not help.

I am sure however that a good number of tCypriots have overcome their fears, especially those currently living abroad who will choose to return, and they will help instill the confidence required into the rest of tCypriots. Yes we can, Viewpoint!

The ones I know and I am from the UK are firm BBF supporters, they want a 2 state solution.

Boogeyman! Read the god-damn document. Negotiate it. Give something, ask for something in return. Or forget 1963 and negotiate a BBF. No matter what you do, think ENOSIS, not TAKSIM! Union of Cypriots, not separation! Enhancing integration, not division. OK? You will make all our lives much easier. My personal preference is a solution based on a negotiated 1963 http://antifon.blogspot.com/2010/12/pre ... osals.html . Why a BBF when in 20 years time we will all be living intermixed all over Cyprus as it used to be. A unitary state, always in my opinion, will be easier to run and less expensive! I am a fairly nice guy, am I not? Get used to me. I am returning to Lapithos the day after the solution is signed! I will even boost your confidence by playing you a game of chess, a game I love but I suck at!!

I support a BBF solution and not a return to the past as psychologically for TCs this would mean defeat and a forcing of makarios's plan to rid the island of its TC population therefore being able to freely gift Cyprus to Greece.

I hope one day you get to return to your village but without a comprehensive solution with a structure that will address our concerns and guarantee that there are 2 states where GCs administer the south and the TCs the north we will not be seeing a solution in our life time.

It really doesnt matter how nice you are or if we play chess you cannot force us to live together in a unitary state where Gcs will naturally rule supreme and we will be onlookers or feel like tourists in our own country , we have to be given the freedom to choose under which administration we wish to live.

How will you receive my answer since you already think that I do not know gCypriots well enough. Anyhow, assuming I know their thinking well, then gCypriots will jump at the opportunity to negotiate 1963. They will be ecstatic. As I have amply explained though already, they cannot risk initiating it. tCypriots must somehow get the message across in an official manner, that as BBF is disucssed under the aegis of the UN they wish to hold talks with our Dimitris face-to-face to also investigate other possibilities.

This will never happen as the Tcs will never be placed in a position to lick up what they spat out (a Turkish saying) (rejected) so many years ago. So imho you are flogging a dead horse.

We want to move on Viewpoint and you are making it difficult for all of us! The EU which you frown upon (I think you do not mean it) offers a huge platform for Cypriot excellence and distinction in so many fields. I am confident that you are, tCypriots, the most secular and European Muslim community anywhere in Europe!

So you want us to throw away everything so you can move on and get what you dream of, a GC state, well it ain't gonna happen and not trusting the EU and their one sided support I doubt Tcs care very much for using their rickety old stage to excell on when it son the verge of collapse.

Together we can truly dominate our region. Adding one plus one, or 0,4+1,6, choose your preference Cypriots, will not add up to two, it will add up to 4 or 10! Let's make it happen. Let's remember, let's forgive, let's commemorate, but above all let's chart a new course for Cyprus! For Cypriots!

Dominate the region??? really come on be realistic you are a donkey trying to be a race horse well no one is buying it in fact they are laughing behind your backs.

Your chants are very inspiring but when your whole future is on the line and you are asked to take a leap of faith into the arms of your past enemy I think you should be more apprehensive and demand that your fears and concerns be fully addressed and not dismissed.

A leap of faith is required, before too late. gCypriots will not disappoint you this time. They are ready since long ago. You "owe" them, and above all yourselves, that much! Let's make it a Cypriot "revolution" with no t's or g's attached.

Pure utopia, what are you on? We do not see it this way we trust the GCs less today than we did prior to the borders being opened, there has to be a strong BBF structure that will not allow either side to step over the line ever again and guarantees that will act as a deterrent to ensure everyone's security.

Ps. I see trilingual Cypriots, in Turkish, Greek and English, with no employment worries over the next three decades at least!

Without security and safety being guaranteed none of what you offer is worth a fig.

antifon I really think you have to re-evaluate your ideology TCs do not trust GCs one iota (im sure the GCs don't trust us) and will never do so until they experience positive developments to show they do not want revenge for the past and are willing to share the island equally in a BBF structure, without domination and exploiting their numerical advantage to take control over the whole island which you yourself have exposed by stating that a BBF will develop into a unitary state which is one of our greatest fears thats why we demand measures that will stop this form happening so as not to lose our effective say in our future.

Any chance of a response antifon?

Viewpoint,

I read with great care what you wrote. I will try and address one by one your concerns, fears, feelings [over the weekend], but in all honesty I already know it to be a futile exercise when it comes to you personally. I will do it however (not tonight) for the sake of others who follow us here and may be interested to know what the answers are from a gCypriot.

A majority of tCypriots living in Cyprus is being composed as we speak who are already pushing their leaders, not necessarily the "elected" ones, in the direction of a compromise, an honorable and fair compromise influenced by the logical principles contained in the 1963 document. http://antifon.blogspot.com/2010/12/pre ... osals.html

Time is running out for the tCypriots, I think we can all agree on that point. However, with Christofias at the helm, you can still expect a very fair negotiation, no matter the developments in the illegally occupied land of Cyprus. http://antifon.blogspot.com/2011/02/sal ... ofias.html

As I have stated many times, a BBF based on 1960's "equality" and "logic" will be twice as bad as 1960. It will never be accepted by gCypriots. That leaves occupied Cyprus as a huge thorn on Turkey's back & your community in shambles (at least the remains thereof on the island).

There is one thing perhaps that escapes you. The winds have changed and they are behind Cyprus' sails. The question is fast becoming not 'what are Turkey's strategic interests in Cyprus', but with Turkey making "illogical" choices on various fronts, it becomes 'what are the EU's and the USA's, in short the west's, interests in Cyprus?'. Cyprus's Turkeyish problem becomes the west's problem. With the west feeling uneasy about Turkey, then it becomes your problem as well. Am I getting the point across? http://antifon.blogspot.com/2011/02/cyp ... oblem.html

Last (for this first brief response), your unwillingness to address the Kurdish issue of Turkey and compare it to your own situation speaks volumes. The last thing you want is for the simple comparison to be made.

Read about it on my blog http://antifon.blogspot.com & do not be alarmed when soon heavy-weight officials from the EU, which you don't like but that is totally irrelevant in the greater scheme of things, will raise the comparison in order to kill two birds with one stone, politely suggesting to Turkey that messing in other people's internal affairs gives them the very same right, especially when her problem, the Kurdish, resembles greatly Cyprus' Turkeyish problem.

Do you feel that will upset Erdogan? IMHO it will.

The world is changing my friend.
Have a good night!



Is meddling in Turkey's affairs fair play?
http://antifon.blogspot.com/2010/12/new ... -late.html