Cyprus-Forum.com

[antifon]

antifon you do not really answer my questions but I will try truthfully to answer yours.

I am asking you to consider this: could it be that certain of the clauses of 1960 are the very root of the suffering which ensued?

Why were those clauses put there? please ask yourself...they were a direct result of previous actions and an effort to ensure neither side dominated the other.

I am asking you to accept that gCypriots, 4 out of 5 Cypriots, feel that 1960 is unjust & no federation or other model will be accepted if either the injustice of 1960 is carried forward or the injustice of 1974, the so called current realities, are allowed to persist.

But the content you wish have removed is there for specific reasons, we want to be partners not a minority in a GC state, we will not be dominated pushed to one side ever again no TC will accept what you are asking they feel so strongly they would rather officially unite with Turkey. A BBF is middle ground.

Everyone has the human right to return to their homes, villages and towns. The exercise thereof must be given due consideration.
We must not disagree here.

This is desired by all but impossible in practice everything has changed some people both TCs and GCs will have to accept compensation.

I am asking you to consider whether a unitary state, an evolved 1960, is an easier transition than any Annan plan & that tCypriots will benefit faster if they direct their thinking in tweaking 1960 in such a way so as to safeguard all their legitimate rights (not necessarily identical to 1960 rights). A 1960-like solution will also be more digestible by gCypriots.

TCs would under no circumstances accept a unitary state, to much water has passed under the bridge, there has to be a 2 state solution under a federal structure with one international identity, where each individual can choose to live in either the north or south state, why is this so unacceptable that's what's being negotiated as we speak, that tells me that the GCs are not genuine in the contribution to finding a solution based on BBF with political equality.

In no Cypriot mind should a line, green or other, be allowed to exist. The line is artificial and if we accept it we are accepting to carry forward the mistakes of the past.

You are living in a dream world if you think the two sides will go backwards to the 1960s and live mixed together, there has to be a 2 state solution, we do not have to have controls when crossing but this factor reflects safety for the TCs and they will never let go of it.

As much as I hate the messenger (or is it his attire?) his 1963 message was both urgent and honest. It contains principles that tCypriots must revisit anew. They contain mainstream gCypriot thinking. If you wish to understand the gCypriot soul, then you must study this docuemnt and ask yourself:

Do you believe that we can accept what we see as the start of the collapse of the "RoC" this is to difficult a psychological barrier for Tcs to get over, they will never accept giving away their rights as envisaged by your document.

Knowing what I know now, if I was given the opportunity to accept/ reject/ debate the 1963 document's ideas, or add my own, how would I go about doing it?

For this reason alone "The right of veto of the President and the Vice-President of the Republic to be abandoned" your proposals will be rejected time and time again, its like asking us to sign our own death warrant we will not do it.

Thank you for your answers.

My answer is short: 1960 "equality" was the result of bullying. No 82% majority would have agreed to such "equality" unless they were pressured to do so. tCypriot insistence on preserving the obvious injustice of 1960 is the ONLY obstacle standing in the way of a solution. Denying ackowledging this is also hypocritical on the part of tCypriots, especially when they can't bring themselves to say that 'if Kurds ask for a 1960 then the ethnic Turkish majority of the country should accept such request'.

Agreeing to discuss 1960 does not necessarily mean that you will give away. You may find out that it may mean giving somehting and getting something else in return. That is what a negotiation means.

No genuine Cypriot should ever come to terms with a solution that prevents legal owners from returning home. Lapithos, Keryneia, Morfou were all majority gCypriot, and such they should be allowed to be again.

Anyhow, I wish both of us best of luck going forward.

.

[wyoming cowboy]

The problem with the 1960's agreement in Zurich is that the Tc did not fully understand what they were signing. The first words of the agreement state tht the Republic of Cyprus will be created as a democratic republic. First and foremost that statement gives the right of the majority Greek cyps. to control and manage the Republic,


Second: The constitution also states that the Tc are a minority, their civil and human rights will be upheld by the constitution and the rule of law.


Third:
The veto power in a democratic republic had no other jurisdiction then upholding the rights of the Tc...

None of Makarios' 13 points violated any of the civil rights of the Tc.....The Tc through the Brits and Nato encouragement used Makarios' points to call for partition and destruction of the Republic.


These are the main reasons the UN and other legal bodies will never accept the Tc 's right of partition or recognition as a separate entity from the ROC....


You cannot one day sign an agreement then break the agreemtnt and expect sympathy from any world bodies.

[Viewpoint]

antifon you do not really answer my questions but I will try truthfully to answer yours.

I am asking you to consider this: could it be that certain of the clauses of 1960 are the very root of the suffering which ensued?

Why were those clauses put there? please ask yourself...they were a direct result of previous actions and an effort to ensure neither side dominated the other.

I am asking you to accept that gCypriots, 4 out of 5 Cypriots, feel that 1960 is unjust & no federation or other model will be accepted if either the injustice of 1960 is carried forward or the injustice of 1974, the so called current realities, are allowed to persist.

Thats why no solution will ever be found the chasm is just to wide to bridge.
But the content you wish have removed is there for specific reasons, we want to be partners not a minority in a GC state, we will not be dominated pushed to one side ever again no TC will accept what you are asking they feel so strongly they would rather officially unite with Turkey. A BBF is middle ground.

Everyone has the human right to return to their homes, villages and towns. The exercise thereof must be given due consideration.
We must not disagree here.

This is desired by all but impossible in practice everything has changed some people both TCs and GCs will have to accept compensation.

I am asking you to consider whether a unitary state, an evolved 1960, is an easier transition than any Annan plan & that tCypriots will benefit faster if they direct their thinking in tweaking 1960 in such a way so as to safeguard all their legitimate rights (not necessarily identical to 1960 rights). A 1960-like solution will also be more digestible by gCypriots.

TCs would under no circumstances accept a unitary state, to much water has passed under the bridge, there has to be a 2 state solution under a federal structure with one international identity, where each individual can choose to live in either the north or south state, why is this so unacceptable that's what's being negotiated as we speak, that tells me that the GCs are not genuine in the contribution to finding a solution based on BBF with political equality.

In no Cypriot mind should a line, green or other, be allowed to exist. The line is artificial and if we accept it we are accepting to carry forward the mistakes of the past.

You are living in a dream world if you think the two sides will go backwards to the 1960s and live mixed together, there has to be a 2 state solution, we do not have to have controls when crossing but this factor reflects safety for the TCs and they will never let go of it.

As much as I hate the messenger (or is it his attire?) his 1963 message was both urgent and honest. It contains principles that tCypriots must revisit anew. They contain mainstream gCypriot thinking. If you wish to understand the gCypriot soul, then you must study this docuemnt and ask yourself:

Do you believe that we can accept what we see as the start of the collapse of the "RoC" this is to difficult a psychological barrier for Tcs to get over, they will never accept giving away their rights as envisaged by your document.

Knowing what I know now, if I was given the opportunity to accept/ reject/ debate the 1963 document's ideas, or add my own, how would I go about doing it?

For this reason alone "The right of veto of the President and the Vice-President of the Republic to be abandoned" your proposals will be rejected time and time again, its like asking us to sign our own death warrant we will not do it.

Thank you for your answers.

My answer is short: 1960 "equality" was the result of bullying. No 82% majority would have agreed to such "equality" unless they were pressured to do so. tCypriot insistence on preserving the obvious injustice of 1960 is the ONLY obstacle standing in the way of a solution. Denying ackowledging this is also hypocritical on the part of tCypriots, especially when they can't bring themselves to say that 'if Kurds ask for a 1960 then the ethnic Turkish majority of the country should accept such request'.

Agreeing to discuss 1960 does not necessarily mean that you will give away. You may find out that it may mean giving somehting and getting something else in return. That is what a negotiation means.

No genuine Cypriot should ever come to terms with a solution that prevents legal owners from returning home. Lapithos, Keryneia, Morfou were all majority gCypriot, and such they should be allowed to be again.

Anyhow, I wish both of us best of luck going forward.

.

[antifon]

antifon you do not really answer my questions but I will try truthfully to answer yours.

I am asking you to consider this: could it be that certain of the clauses of 1960 are the very root of the suffering which ensued?

Why were those clauses put there? please ask yourself...they were a direct result of previous actions and an effort to ensure neither side dominated the other.

I am asking you to accept that gCypriots, 4 out of 5 Cypriots, feel that 1960 is unjust & no federation or other model will be accepted if either the injustice of 1960 is carried forward or the injustice of 1974, the so called current realities, are allowed to persist.

Thats why no solution will ever be found the chasm is just to wide to bridge.
But the content you wish have removed is there for specific reasons, we want to be partners not a minority in a GC state, we will not be dominated pushed to one side ever again no TC will accept what you are asking they feel so strongly they would rather officially unite with Turkey. A BBF is middle ground.

Everyone has the human right to return to their homes, villages and towns. The exercise thereof must be given due consideration.
We must not disagree here.

This is desired by all but impossible in practice everything has changed some people both TCs and GCs will have to accept compensation.

I am asking you to consider whether a unitary state, an evolved 1960, is an easier transition than any Annan plan & that tCypriots will benefit faster if they direct their thinking in tweaking 1960 in such a way so as to safeguard all their legitimate rights (not necessarily identical to 1960 rights). A 1960-like solution will also be more digestible by gCypriots.

TCs would under no circumstances accept a unitary state, to much water has passed under the bridge, there has to be a 2 state solution under a federal structure with one international identity, where each individual can choose to live in either the north or south state, why is this so unacceptable that's what's being negotiated as we speak, that tells me that the GCs are not genuine in the contribution to finding a solution based on BBF with political equality.

In no Cypriot mind should a line, green or other, be allowed to exist. The line is artificial and if we accept it we are accepting to carry forward the mistakes of the past.

You are living in a dream world if you think the two sides will go backwards to the 1960s and live mixed together, there has to be a 2 state solution, we do not have to have controls when crossing but this factor reflects safety for the TCs and they will never let go of it.

As much as I hate the messenger (or is it his attire?) his 1963 message was both urgent and honest. It contains principles that tCypriots must revisit anew. They contain mainstream gCypriot thinking. If you wish to understand the gCypriot soul, then you must study this docuemnt and ask yourself:

Do you believe that we can accept what we see as the start of the collapse of the "RoC" this is to difficult a psychological barrier for Tcs to get over, they will never accept giving away their rights as envisaged by your document.

Knowing what I know now, if I was given the opportunity to accept/ reject/ debate the 1963 document's ideas, or add my own, how would I go about doing it?

For this reason alone "The right of veto of the President and the Vice-President of the Republic to be abandoned" your proposals will be rejected time and time again, its like asking us to sign our own death warrant we will not do it.

Thank you for your answers.

My answer is short: 1960 "equality" was the result of bullying. No 82% majority would have agreed to such "equality" unless they were pressured to do so. tCypriot insistence on preserving the obvious injustice of 1960 is the ONLY obstacle standing in the way of a solution. Denying ackowledging this is also hypocritical on the part of tCypriots, especially when they can't bring themselves to say that 'if Kurds ask for a 1960 then the ethnic Turkish majority of the country should accept such request'.

Agreeing to discuss 1960 does not necessarily mean that you will give away. You may find out that it may mean giving somehting and getting something else in return. That is what a negotiation means.

No genuine Cypriot should ever come to terms with a solution that prevents legal owners from returning home. Lapithos, Keryneia, Morfou were all majority gCypriot, and such they should be allowed to be again.

Anyhow, I wish both of us best of luck going forward.

.

Viewpoint, you seem reasonable enough. I missed your last quote. I guess you wanted me to see your quote on bullying at the bottom. In a sense tCypriots are bullying gCypriots today. As far as helping gCypriots, it seems to me that lately gCypriots are getting all kinds of meaningful support. I predict that it will get stronger and more frequent as this year goes by. Do me a favor and be ready to negotiate 1963. You may have very little time to think when the time comes so best be ready. Remember, no one will ask you to give VITAL rights up. You may be called upon to give up some rights in exchnage of others. I hope it works out. For both our sake.

Listen to this:
http://antifon.blogspot.com/2011/02/lit ... tness.html
I promise you will like it.

[Viewpoint]

Its a beautiful island which we all love but the north means more to me than the south, I don't know the south nor do I recall it and as time passes it matters less and less to the younger generations.

You are demanding we get rid of our rights to be partners in our own country we can never give up that right and never will. You want to dominate us and force us into becoming a minority in a GC state, this we will never accept. You want to take away the north, this we will never give up.

My quote was not posted but it was to do with why there will never be a solution due to the chasm being to wide, we cannot bridge it, you want one thing and I want another.

[wyoming cowboy]

Its a beautiful island which we all love but the north means more to me than the south, I don't know the south nor do I recall it and as time passes it matters less and less to the younger generations.

You are demanding we get rid of our rights to be partners in our own country we can never give up that right and never will. You want to dominate us and force us into becoming a minority in a GC state, this we will never accept. You want to take away the north, this we will never give up.

My quote was not posted but it was to do with why there will never be a solution due to the chasm being to wide, we cannot bridge it, you want one thing and I want another.

Foremost in your equation the north of Cyprus does not belong to you. It belongs to the RoC, any tc's living there have no legal jurisdiction or any historical jurisdiction that make the north of the island "yours". The world is changing and evolving everyday and for 36 years you and yours have been on stolen properties stolen heritage and stolen history. if you choose to give up your freedoms for security in the end you will have neither.

[antifon]

Its a beautiful island which we all love but the north means more to me than the south, I don't know the south nor do I recall it and as time passes it matters less and less to the younger generations.

You are demanding we get rid of our rights to be partners in our own country we can never give up that right and never will. You want to dominate us and force us into becoming a minority in a GC state, this we will never accept. You want to take away the north, this we will never give up.

My quote was not posted but it was to do with why there will never be a solution due to the chasm being to wide, we cannot bridge it, you want one thing and I want another.

Viewpoint, I am demanding nothing! I am asking.

I am asking you to realize that the so called 'north' and 'south' are nothing more than the result of a huge crime.

I am asking you to realize that what you may have in mind may be worse than what I am proposing to you. Why? For starters, you will preserve your community status. You will preserve your language. You will reserve equal rights as citizens of the Republic of Cyprus, with total respect of your community and human rights. All these are 10-fold the rights that Kurds enjoy inside Turkey for example. You will preserve the veto right as a community, in essence a 50% say, in decisions that should include areas of security, but should not include RoC budgets, or other areas non-community specific. You will immediately assume your position in the Cyprus and EU parliaments. You will progressively assume (a project of reuniting services will be set up) your positions in all areas of the state. You will immediately become citizens of a working, respected, successful UN and EU member state.

I am asking you to realize that sitting around a table to discuss a reality, a legal reality, is far easier than stubbornly holding on to an illegal dream out of which you will sooner or later wake out of.

I am asking you to realize that agreeing to discuss and negotiate does not mean you have to lose. It is up to tCypriot wisdom to give without compromising the security and wellbeing of the community whereas contributing to making the constitution fairer where it was grossly unfair.

I am asking you to define your own future in a way that unites Cyprus. To throw out separatist logic, just as gCypriots, the vast majority of us, have thrown out our 'enosis' logic long ago.

And I promise you this. If tCypriots were to express their mere desire to sit around a table to discuss a truly united Cyprus which respects the rights of all its citizens and promises to undo injustices of the past, in a spirit that recognizes the foreign logic of aspects of 1960, the mere declaration thereof, that will be enough to bring hundreds of thousands of gCypriots out in the streets in support of a reunited Cyprus.


http://antifon.blogspot.com/2011/02/lit ... tness.html

.

[Viewpoint]

Its a beautiful island which we all love but the north means more to me than the south, I don't know the south nor do I recall it and as time passes it matters less and less to the younger generations.

You are demanding we get rid of our rights to be partners in our own country we can never give up that right and never will. You want to dominate us and force us into becoming a minority in a GC state, this we will never accept. You want to take away the north, this we will never give up.

My quote was not posted but it was to do with why there will never be a solution due to the chasm being to wide, we cannot bridge it, you want one thing and I want another.

Foremost in your equation the north of Cyprus does not belong to you. It belongs to the RoC, any tc's living there have no legal jurisdiction or any historical jurisdiction that make the north of the island "yours". The world is changing and evolving everyday and for 36 years you and yours have been on stolen properties stolen heritage and stolen history. if you choose to give up your freedoms for security in the end you will have neither.

Nice words what does it actually change?......Nothing, time you realized that.

[Viewpoint]

anti I appreciate where you are coming from but dont you feel that going back to the 1963 agreements which you yourselves so adamantly refused to accept will achieve anything, the TCs see it has taking a step backs although personally I feel it has it own merits and deserves to be considered which some prominent people in the north so raise and support like Ali Erel.

Viewpoint, I am demanding nothing! I am asking.

You maybe be asking but the majority of GC demand, they think they have the upper hand so they can demand that we yield to being forced into minority status in a GC state.

I am asking you to realize that the so called 'north' and 'south' are nothing more than the result of a huge crime.

It is what it is and a result of the culmination of events contributed to by both sides. Maybe this was needed to stop more and more "Cypriots" being killed if we forced unity and allowed GC domination or even enosis.

I am asking you to realize that what you may have in mind may be worse than what I am proposing to you. Why? For starters, you will preserve your community status. You will preserve your language. You will reserve equal rights as citizens of the Republic of Cyprus, with total respect of your community and human rights. All these are 10-fold the rights that Kurds enjoy inside Turkey for example. You will preserve the veto right as a community, in essence a 50% say, in decisions that should include areas of security, but should not include RoC budgets, or other areas non-community specific. You will immediately assume your position in the Cyprus and EU parliaments. You will progressively assume (a project of reuniting services will be set up) your positions in all areas of the state. You will immediately become citizens of a working, respected, successful UN and EU member state.

Then propose it or even better get your leaders to declare it, the timing would be great if they did this tomorrow, I am 100% certain you would not the support of the majority of GCs, your allowing our veto right alone is enough to make GCs reject this proposal from the outset.

I get a strong feeling you do not know your own people.

I am asking you to realize that sitting around a table to discuss a reality, a legal reality, is far easier than stubbornly holding on to an illegal dream out of which you will sooner or later wake out of.

Over 50 years of negotiations, isnt that enough? doesnt that speak volumes there is no magic agreement both sides want to commit to.

I am asking you to realize that agreeing to discuss and negotiate does not mean you have to lose. It is up to tCypriot wisdom to give without compromising the security and wellbeing of the community whereas contributing to making the constitution fairer where it was grossly unfair.

But the issues you want us to "give" on compromises our situation and places us at risk, this we will never do, you want a unitary state wheras I can tell for sure 100% of TC would never accept anything less that a BBF with political equality.

I am asking you to define your own future in a way that unites Cyprus. To throw out separatist logic, just as gCypriots, the vast majority of us, have thrown out our 'enosis' logic long ago.

Do you really feel hand on heart that this dream is dead, speak to the likes of people like Piratis who still claim that Cyprus is a Greek island, how can you expect us to drop our guard against these people who promote separatist thinking, firstly eradicate this majority then you will gain credibility otherwise you are in the good doers category who does not even know his own people and their demands.

And I promise you this. If tCypriots were to express their mere desire to sit around a table to discuss a truly united Cyprus which respects the rights of all its citizens and promises to undo injustices of the past, in a spirit that recognizes the foreign logic of aspects of 1960, the mere declaration thereof, that will be enough to bring hundreds of thousands of gCypriots out in the streets in support of a reunited Cyprus.

We have taken to the streets many times but you GCs only ridicule and use this to score a few more meaningless brownie points, when will see the GCs take to the street demanding the TCs return to the 1960 agreements? or that Turkey leave the island? I have yet to see one mass rally, GCs are all talk and no action.

[antifon]

anti I appreciate where you are coming from but dont you feel that going back to the 1963 agreements which you yourselves so adamantly refused to accept will achieve anything, the TCs see it has taking a step backs although personally I feel it has it own merits and deserves to be considered which some prominent people in the north so raise and support like Ali Erel.

First, I understand that perhaps calling me Anti means to show affection but I prefer my full handle name. As you probably know it simply means 'opposite voice'. Thank you Viewpoint.

You probably mean 1960; 1963 was the Makarios November 30th 1963 proposals which were rejected outright by Turkey and were never discussed. Ethno- communal violence erupted shortly thereafter, which in one year (until end 1964) produced 600 deaths, 2/3 tCypriots. If tCypriots accept today 1963 then I think we have truly wasted a lot of time. It would be the unltimate proof that Karpaz donkeys are even smarter than we all are!

Read here the Cyprus 1960 constitution: http://www.kypros.org/Constitution/English/ and here the 1963 proposals: http://antifon.blogspot.com/2010/12/pre ... osals.html

You maybe be asking but the majority of GC demand, they think they have the upper hand so they can demand that we yield to being forced into minority status in a GC state.

Let me share a personal story with you. I always prided myself in being a good student. I especially liked Physics. Optics in physics is perhaps the easiest subject, especially the lab sessions. I think it was in 9th grade when I took a test where my teacher, Mr Papantoniou included a 'freebie' for the good students, even weighted it with 4 points (out of 20 at the time). The exercise was with lenses and all we had to do was decide where light would converge [I am sure you know that light travels straight]. Everything was pretty clear except that somewhere there was a brick blocking the light's path. Not entirely however; the lenses were big enough to collect enough light which was not blocked thus making the whole exercise in all honesty overvalued, a sitting duck worth 20% of the total score. Guess what. I missed the bloody points. I got a 16 on the test. I think I cried my way home that day. You know, the sort of thing nerds do! Only Chemistry later on in 11th grade made me forget my 16 by another uniquely dismal performance, unbearable to this day!

I hope you do not mind my saying so, but I believe you, as a community, see a brick blocking your political vision. It may not be as simple as my mistake but then again political light rays travel in all sorts of ways, not just predictable straight lines, and of course we know they carry a lot more energy (pathos) than what Einstein would have us believe. It is up to leaders, visionary political leaders to skew and twist their path so as to make them travel in beneficial ways. Of course, it is important, before a leader engages to know the desirable destination. And in my opinion, a wise tCypriot leader will try his best to properly assess the interests of a voice deserving four times his own decibels. I maintain that 1963 presents a unique agenda that needs be discussed without the presence of the UN or any other. Just a gCypriot leader with a tCypriot leader with a common goal: to unite a country, to unite a people, to safeguard legitimate interests, to do away with foreign interests, to jointly exploit just about everything and everyone in order to make Cyprus a place of envy. Trust me, the rest will fall into the right places just as Garry Kasparov knows seven moves in advance where the chess game is headed.

You own personal brick wall is the repetition of "gCypriots want us to yield to being forced into minority status in a GC state." My response is: remove the brick. It is not really there. Free yourself to listen to messages even if sometimes they originate from people whom you have already labeled decisively one way or another. You may be surprised what the other side is willing to accept. There is, you know, often enough in life a win-win situation.

It [division] is what it is and a result of the culmination of events contributed to by both sides. Maybe this was needed to stop more and more "Cypriots" being killed if we forced unity and allowed GC domination or even enosis.

Viewpoint, this is plain wrong. Enosis was officially dropped as a stated goal years before and for the entire 10 year period after 1964 and until the morning of the invasion a total of 23 tCypriots had perished in inter-community violence incidents. Turkey could have dealt with the crisis, the illegal Greek coup, a myriad other ways. One hundred gCypriots died during the coup, all in their defense of the Republic. I do not wish to say more. The 'paramyhti' (fairy tale) just has to end sometime or at least be told differently. No amount of suffering justifies ethnic cleansing. If we measured things by suffering then Kurds should be allowed to rule Turkey for the next century at least. I know it feels good repeating certain things but it makes the brick wall so tall that no rays of hope can ever make it through.

Then propose it or even better get your leaders to declare it, the timing would be great if they did this tomorrow, I am 100% certain you would not the support of the majority of GCs, your allowing our veto right alone is enough to make GCs reject this proposal from the outset. I get a strong feeling you do not know your own people.

Your job is to understand my side of the story, and vice versa, it is my job to understand your concerns. gCypriots will not risk being blamed as walking away from the current talks. They have no reason to. Christofias put forth a long time ago a set of three proposals which have been accepted as logical and within UN parameters by many important players. I personally take my hat off to him [fyi, i vote right] for managing to unveil Turkish [Turkey] intent. It would simply be suicidal for gCypriots to suggest changing the basis of discussion thus providing an alibi to Turkey for executing the last chapter of her Ergenekon saga in Cyprus, that of annexation. I have argued on my blog that the ball is in tCypriots' court alone. Times call for a visionary leader on the tCypriot side to rise above popular myths and courageously engage differently with gCypriot leaders. tCypriots need leadership which seems to be lacking (then again I have no idea who says what and who might politically carry the anger and frustration of the tens of thousands of tCypriots who have simply had enough!).

Now I come to your brick wall related to the veto. If you understand that veto means that whatever is put to vote in Cypriot parliament the tCypriot community should have veto powers, then I am afraid you are right that gCypriots, including me, will never accept such a scenario. If however you understand veto power to pertain to a limited number of issues that deal with the security of the tCypriot community or against measures that might be perceived as anti-tCypriot specific, then I can assure no gCypriot leader, not even DHKO's or EDEK's, our staunch "nationalists" would object. Naturally a tCypriot veto cannot apply to any issue that deals with our common EU presence, else it might be abused, just as on so many issues in the early years of the Republic the tCypriot community veto'ed the hell out of so many things leaving the President no option but to propose something (see link above).

Over 50 years of negotiations, isnt that enough? doesnt that speak volumes there is no magic agreement both sides want to commit to.

No. I have proper titles to Lapithos and Kerynia properties. They will be passed on. I have not and do not intend to approach the so called IPC. Compensation is not what is foremost in my mind. My forefathers are buried in the 'north' and that is where I still make plans to retire. All that is lacking is a vision for the future. Unfortunately the tCypriot free will has been for too long hampered by Turkey's fierce Ergenekon/TSK propaganda. Read the first page on my blog, you may enjoy it: http://antifon.blogspot.com

But the issues you want us to "give" on compromises our situation and places us at risk, this we will never do, you want a unitary state wheras I can tell for sure 100% of TC would never accept anything less that a BBF with political equality.

A so-called BBF can come into being only if agreed. Until then gCypriots have RoC. What do you have? I know it's harsh, but that is how things are. In my honest view, a BBF will never be agreed if 1960's "equality" logic is maintained or even worse limitation or exceptions to the respect of human rights.

Do you really feel hand on heart that this dream [united Cyprus] is dead, speak to the likes of people like Piratis who still claim that Cyprus is a Greek island, how can you expect us to drop our guard against these people who promote separatist thinking, firstly eradicate this majority then you will gain credibility otherwise you are in the good doers category who does not even know his own people and their demands.

Is Piratis representing Cyprus? Leaders lead. People like Piratis and I follow. With my hand on the heart I tell you that at least 70% of gCypriots will vote yes to an agreed 1963-based solution. I expect you to drop your guard, as you eloquently put it, because it is IN YOUR BEST INTEREST. We will together make sure that if Piratis or any other gCypriot likes Greece so much [where I am writing these words from by the way] he can come here and immerse himself in local culture and give a helping hand to dig it out of the hole it has dug itself in. I can confidently say to you Viewpoint that gCypriots in Grecee, even after decades, are foreigners here. Their children perhaps not, but the first generation never manages to blend in seamlessly. I personally love Greece, mostly because the people here carry forward the ideas of ancient Greece, but there is all too often rampant nationalism as well. I can confidently say however that nationalism here pales in comparison to that in Turkey!

We have taken to the streets many times but you GCs only ridicule and use this to score a few more meaningless brownie points, when will see the GCs take to the street demanding the TCs return to the 1960 agreements? or that Turkey leave the island? I have yet to see one mass rally, GCs are all talk and no action.

tCypriots take to the streets because their suffering continues. gCypriots have been able to adjust, and await for tCypriots quite honestly to spot what is right in front of their noses, blocked only by hyper-insecurity fueled out of proportion by Ergenekon propaganda. You will never see gCypriots take to the streets to go back to 1960! 1960 is the source of the problem. You will see gCypriots take to the streets if you only uttered words similar th these:

"We wish in good faith to engage in a discussion to see how we can improve 1960 so as to make it more balanced and more workable, without compromising our existence as a large community of Cyprus. We wish to work with all Cypriots to undo the damage and the injustice inflicted upon all of us throughout the years to the maximum extend possible. We wish to open a new chapter in Cyprus' history."

Do that and gCypriots will pour out into the streets, I first amongst them!