Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kikapu]

By the way, TCs should thank their Gods that partition was never legalized. If it was, Turkey would have no need to pretend that there are some TC "presidents", "prime ministers" and a "trnc", and it would run the north directly just like she runs any other part of Turkey, in which case many of those 50.000 TCs would have been arrested and thrown to jail, most of the rest would have been given a good beating, and Turkey would make it clear to the TCs that they are nothing but an insignificant amount of people who should shut up and do what they are ordered.

If Cyprus was part of Greece, Cypriots would be almost 10% of the total population and Nicosia the 3rd biggest city of Greece after Athens and Thessaloniki (and Limassol the 4th largest together with Patra). On the other hand TCs, who are less than a 5th of our population, as part of Turkey which has population almost 7 times more than Greece, are not even 0.2% of the Turkish population. Those who think that Turkey will actually give a fuck about such an insignificant amount of people once she doesn't need to use them as an excuse anymore, should think again.

Wow that sounds like a great deal lets gift Cyprus to Greece....you are such a moron still enshrined in the enosis dream and some Gcs are stupid enough to claim its dead and buried just look at Piratis and people like him to know its alive and kicking even in 2011.

You are still having problems with full comprehension of the written English language. Piratis was drawing parallels on what ifs, between the GCs (Cyprus) as part of Greece and the TCs (trnc) as part of Turkey. Nothing more and nothing less.!

Hes clearly trying to promote being part of Greece would be more beneficial than Turkey, that's why i was being sarcastic in saying lets gift Cyprus to Greece as Piratis claims Cyprus is a Greek island. Time you stopped playing at being the English teacher and started to stand up to the your bum chums the GCs.

Any GC would be a fool to have any Enosis Dreams with Greece today. What for.? Same goes for the TCs with Turkey.

[Kikapu]

Kikapu, strategy as the military inderstand it is a mix of bird brained ideas they learned in military academies and contain such idiocies as "the soft underbelly of Turkey". A phrase which likens a nation to a cow, with a soft belly belo and hard horns above etc. These guys are obviously affected by the way maps are presented in classrooms, with the north always up, and the south always down. They start to think that rockets can only fly S. to N- NE and not the other way round.

You would think that they could see the obvious, that by keeping their soldiers in the north they legitimise the presence of Greek military in the south, which weakens their strateigc advantage. It would be much greater if NO ONE had troops on the island. But maybe that was the intention all along, hence Erdoghan's legitimisation of Greek strategic interest during his latest outburst.

I agree with you, Nikitas.

Turkey has a huge "underbelly" if that's what they are worried about, but how does having a military base in the north 60 miles offshore from the mainland is any help to Turkey, and even if it were, it only covers just the north-east quadrant area between Turkey, Cyprus and Syria. What about the rest of her "underbelly".? The whole thing is nothing but for the Turks to feel that they have in fact won some land back that they once held before. The rest of any "strategic interests" claims without explanation as to what they are, is because Turkey does not know why she is in the north, but sounds good all the same, just to make believe, that they will only give it up for a equal value exchange, an EU membership. Lets face it, Turkey does not exactly have a "poker face" in what she is holding in her hands and on her mind. Right now Turkey likes to flex some military muscles on Cyprus, just because they can and it gives them a "hard on", but in reality, they are quite impotent as to what they can do with it, specially since 2004 when Cyprus became a EU member. The only thing that is keeping Turkey's "hard on" in place, is a lot of Viagra.!

Kikapu,
I think you can guess what I will say,but I will say it anyway for the benefit of the other interested parties...Turkey was and probably still is protecting the American strategic interests in Cyprus. Now the presence of the Turkish troops in Cyprus simply serves Erdogan and his party's strategic interests...As long as Turkey is in Cyprus there will never be a danger of the EU admitting her into the Union...And as long as Turkey is in Cyprus Erdogan has a carrot to dangle in front of the Military...That sums it up as far as i am concerned...i know you do not believe me,and you keep believing that Erdogan really wants Turkey in the EU,but that is only wishful thinking on the part of our GC cousins...They refuse to even consider the possibility that Erdogan and his party are using Cyprus as a pawn in their grander designs for the Turkish republic...

Hi Bir,

American strategic interests in Cyprus, if there are any, can be also protected by the RoC now, so why have it "outsourced" to Turkey.?? But just to get back to what Erdogan said in plain English, that Turkey has strategic interests in Cyprus, and in my point of view, it cannot be a military strategic interests since Cyprus is so close to the mainland, so it has to do with natural resources, oil and gas in the Med, as well as capturing a place they once ruled under the Ottomans. Perhaps they believe, that by capturing Cyprus in part or in whole, it will be their stepping stone in capturing the rest what the Ottomans lost. I personally think is a lunacy gone mad if that is their thinking, but then again, as it was posted in an article last week, it seems like Turks in general can't tell the difference between Reality and Fiction. If it's Gas and Oil that Turkey wants to safeguard for herself, I'm afraid that is just too little too late once the RoC became an EU member. The best that Turkey can salvage from all her efforts in Cyprus, is to exchange all that for a EU membership. It may not happen under Erdogan's watch, but the country needs to define what is their purpose being in Cyprus, because I just can't see one.

Also, by Erdogan publicly stating that Turkey has strategic interests in Cyprus, now makes them officially an occupying power (not that there ever was a doubt by anyone) and would have been the case even had the Annan Plan was voted for, or dare I say, even had there not been any Enosis Dream by the GCs or Greece, Turkey would have invaded Cyprus at some point as long as there were TCs on the island as a pretext to come to the island. Turkey might have come even if there were no TCs on the island as stated by Davutoglu, therefore, it is more than apparent now, that there cannot be peace in Cyprus until Turkey agrees to withdraw from the island, or that she is forced off from the island. Turkey is the key figure to solve the Cyprus problem and if Turks want to be in the EU now or in the future, Cyprus problem needs to be solved by Turkey.

Middle east has finally woken up to the idea of Democracy and it is set to change the whole landscape. Times are changing and so must Turkey's strategic interests in Cyprus for bigger and better thing by being a EU member. It is true that many countries in the EU do not want Turkey in the EU club, but at the present arrogant Turkish mindset, who can really blame them. Lets see Turkey take a more European ideology position than the present one and then lets see how she will be received by the Europeans. Regardless of whether Turkey makes it into the EU or not is one thing, but for certainty, she cannot claim any part of Cyprus for herself any longer since 2004, since it is now ALL a EU territory. All she can do at best is be a nuisance in Cyprus at a great financial cost for herself, the RoC and to the TCs, but eventually, she will be dealt with by the EU, one way or another, assuming the Turks themselves do not revolt against their own government for keeping them out of the EU. Interesting times are ahead, for sure.!

Diplomacy divided on divided Cyprus

“This rhetoric will inevitably be used as proof by the Greek Cypriots that Turkey considers northern Cyprus as its part and that’s why Ankara does not want a solution to the Cyprus problem,”

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php? ... 2011-02-10

[zan]

It really does baffle me how grown men can be so obsessed with Turkey that they miss all else in the world. As if the EU had every entrant with a fanfare and hugs and kisses. And of course why the he'll should she worry about and protect their Borders. The USA and UK have nuclear weapons pointed at every threat they see even from the sea but Turkey ate paranoid. The Greeks are bankrupt and still the EU has not told her to stop spending on arms. France tested nuclear weapons in a great show of strength but the Turks are supposed to doff their fez's and sit on camels with sabers. This victimisation if the Turkish people us why Turkey looks elsewhere other than the EU. Perhaps one day we are down and out you can feel some fashionable respect for us as downtrodden new blacks of Europe. You guys should pick up a few new news papers a couple of times a week.

[kurupetos]

It really does baffle me how grown men can be so obsessed with Turkey that they miss all else in the world. As if the EU had every entrant with a fanfare and hugs and kisses. And of course why the he'll should she worry about and protect their Borders. The USA and UK have nuclear weapons pointed at every threat they see even from the sea but Turkey ate paranoid. The Greeks are bankrupt and still the EU has not told her to stop spending on arms. France tested nuclear weapons in a great show of strength but the Turks are supposed to doff their fez's and sit on camels with sabers. This victimisation if the Turkish people us why Turkey looks elsewhere other than the EU. Perhaps one day we are down and out you can feel some fashionable respect for us as downtrodden new blacks of Europe. You guys should pick up a few new news papers a couple of times a week.

Can you guess why?

[DT.]

It really does baffle me how grown men can be so obsessed with Turkey that they miss all else in the world. As if the EU had every entrant with a fanfare and hugs and kisses. And of course why the he'll should she worry about and protect their Borders. The USA and UK have nuclear weapons pointed at every threat they see even from the sea but Turkey ate paranoid. The Greeks are bankrupt and still the EU has not told her to stop spending on arms. France tested nuclear weapons in a great show of strength but the Turks are supposed to doff their fez's and sit on camels with sabers. This victimisation if the Turkish people us why Turkey looks elsewhere other than the EU. Perhaps one day we are down and out you can feel some fashionable respect for us as downtrodden new blacks of Europe. You guys should pick up a few new news papers a couple of times a week.

Using an iPad as well huh?

Bloody autocorrect has a language of its own.

[Piratis]

By the way, TCs should thank their Gods that partition was never legalized. If it was, Turkey would have no need to pretend that there are some TC "presidents", "prime ministers" and a "trnc", and it would run the north directly just like she runs any other part of Turkey, in which case many of those 50.000 TCs would have been arrested and thrown to jail, most of the rest would have been given a good beating, and Turkey would make it clear to the TCs that they are nothing but an insignificant amount of people who should shut up and do what they are ordered.

If Cyprus was part of Greece, Cypriots would be almost 10% of the total population and Nicosia the 3rd biggest city of Greece after Athens and Thessaloniki (and Limassol the 4th largest together with Patra). On the other hand TCs, who are less than a 5th of our population, as part of Turkey which has population almost 7 times more than Greece, are not even 0.2% of the Turkish population. Those who think that Turkey will actually give a fuck about such an insignificant amount of people once she doesn't need to use them as an excuse anymore, should think again.

Wow that sounds like a great deal lets gift Cyprus to Greece....you are such a moron still enshrined in the enosis dream and some Gcs are stupid enough to claim its dead and buried just look at Piratis and people like him to know its alive and kicking even in 2011.

You are still having problems with full comprehension of the written English language. Piratis was drawing parallels on what ifs, between the GCs (Cyprus) as part of Greece and the TCs (trnc) as part of Turkey. Nothing more and nothing less.!

That is right Kakapu. The point of my post (which VP missed) is that those who are the most anti-enosis and say that this would "gift Cyprus to Greece" are those who support partition the most, which would in effect gift north Cyprus to Turkey.

Not only enosis was a right of the Cypriot people (unlike partition), not only enosis did not entail any ethnic cleansing or human rights violations (unlike partition), but enosis would make Cyprus a significant part of Greece.

Personally I would still choose a true independence (if such option was available) instead of enosis, but even if the majority of Cypriots choose enosis, we would still be a significant portion of the population with a significant voting power, that could not be ignored (even thought admittedly Greece became Athinocentric which is definitely not a good thing).

On the other hand TCs as part of Turkey are an insignificantly small minority of 0.2%. Turkey uses the TCs during the last decades in order to achieve her aims and serve her own interests. But if the Turkish aims were to be fully achieved, Turkey would not need this small minority anymore and she would treat the TCs as she treats any other Turk. That means no more handouts to keep the standard of living of TCs higher than that of the average Turk, and they wouldn't be lenient with protesters, who would end up in jail or beaten up if they dared to dispute the Turkish authorities.

The power of TCs in a democratic Cyprus would be 18%, which is a very significant amount which translates to TC ministers, TC members of the Cyprus and EU parliaments, decisive role in the election of the president (given that all Cyprus elections are decided with 1-3% difference no president can be elected without the support of TCs) and overall a very significant role in a modern EU state that Cyprus is today.

On the other hand TCs as part of Turkey are insignificant, with no power whatsoever, in a country which is not really democratic and could end up as a theocracy at any point in the not so distant future.

Turkey is spoiling the TCs to make them think that they are something much more important than a minority, and in this way prevent the TCs from living peacefully in a democratic Cyprus among all other Cypriots. This is done to serve the Turkish interests, not the interests of TCs. Not only the TCs have not gained anything with their greedy demands, but if Turkey achieves her aims in Cyprus the TCs are the ones who will pay the biggest price.

Those TCs who say that they would rather became an insignificant minority within Turkey than a far far larger minority within an EU state such as Cyprus, are obviously not thinking logically or realistically, and have nationalism and hate cloud their vision. And those who think that north Cyprus can be independent and ruled by TCs are living in wonderland, and not in the real world.

[humanist]

Piratis ... Thank you for a well thought out and well expressed post. I think what is also important to note there is that the TC's have actually lost out again because they are outnumbered 3 : 1 I believe by the settler population. And soon to be at their extinction because as inter-marriages occur the authenticity of a "pure (in lack of a better word) TC. It also points out the obvious that the TC have not achieved what they have set out to do in the first place which is be an independent State ruled by TC's for TC's. So for the reasons you have mentioned before in relation to being advantage to Unification as opposed to Turkish annexation, makes total sense to me .

Thanks I enjoyed reading the post.

[Viewpoint]

You people live in cuckoo land TCs have stated time and time again that they prefer Turkey to yourselves' the only way they would consider living with GCs as one island would be via a AP like solution which you oppose. If we wanted what you have we would be living in the south add to this the fact that we will never give up the north the ball is firmly in your court to persuade us to want to unite with the south.

[ZoC]

You people live in cuckoo land TCs have stated time and time again that they prefer Turkey to yourselves'

actually, that's just what u state - time and time again; like a broken record.... this is wot tcs are stating:



(nice flag)

[antifon]

You people live in cuckoo land TCs have stated time and time again that they prefer Turkey to yourselves'

actually, that's just what u state - time and time again; like a broken record.... this is wot tcs are stating:



(nice flag)

What does it say on top?