Cyprus-Forum.com

[repulsewarrior]

Bir, I do not for a minute understimate Erdoghan or Davut's cunning. The salient point here is the word cunning, as opposed to intelligenece. What started out as a policy of zero problems with their neighbors has seen instead the gradual growing hostility of neighbors in view of the grandiose and anachronistic neo-ottoman goals.

Turkey is stuck in a bind, it does not want to recognise Cypriotness, expressing this fossilised view through its refusal to rcognise the RoC and its treatment of the TCs. Therofore it tries desperately to define the situation as one of Greeks and Turks. A position that Greece managed to sidestep decades ago.

To come to the title of this tread. The situation challenges the GC side more than Turkey. Now is the time for high diplomacy, and definitely NOT for the attitude displayed in the title of the thread re "handouts" etc. Now is the time to show solidarity to the TCs but without inviting accusations against them that they are "colluding with the enemy". It is a tough call, but it could be done if the GC leadership can think out of the box for once.

A wise,sensitive,level-headed post,Nikitas...Thank you for writing it...If someone like you were in charge of the RoC,I am sure we would not be in this postition now...

...here, here!

[repulsewarrior]

Ok VP, let's look at the past and the present.

You TCs say that you had to stand up to enosis in the past.

Today, enosis is now dead as a concept in the RoC.

But you have indirectly achieved this aim.

Plus its the dominance we fear the most and not being allowed to administer our own state.

Security is another big issue for us.

The security of this island depends on us.

...no one should "own" Cyprus, and for thousands of years its People have never been divided. it may be that these dwellers are dismissed because their subjugation never ended with an assimilation that was complete. Turkey's acts in Cyprus are illegal, what its leaders have done to this History, should they succeed, is a crime against Humanity.

...you are a "Turk", and you have every reason to whine about "Greeks"; but you are no differrent, promoting the same Intolerance.

...i am a Greek, i have every reason to remind you, Cypriots have every right to have their own State, that is Security. National Assemblies within this State offer Citizens as Persons their Identity as Majorities only if they are prepared to recognise their own Humanity firstly, that living amongst them are other Persons who have their own special needs. This is Bicommunal, three (at least) governing bodies, not only two; Bizonal has a similar definition, but geographic.

You will have no Peace vp: it is a matter of the heart, Grace; it does not come from the end of a gun.

[Piratis]

no other minority had the rights tcs had?....................no other republic was left with the problems independence left Cyprus

tcs had the power of veto just as Cyprus and Estonia has that right in EU,
When IndiA was granted independence, when Yugoslavia and some soviet states broke free, they did the sensible thing…………..but in Cyprus oh no…its was left to dog eat dog and rat eat rat……………….Too much to ask for the sensible thing in Cyprus…….so we had civil war, enclaves, akritas, invasion, thousands dead, over two hundred thousand loosing their homes, an unrecognised state, two way ethnic cleansing blah blah blah……….

Would it not have just been easier and simpler to have done the sensible thing in the first place……………………..Oh not in Cyprus ,,,,,,,,wot next?

You are wrong in everything.

Estonians have always been the majority in Estonia, Muslims have been the majority in what became Pakistan, and the same is the case with all other examples you mentioned. The same would be for Kurdistan, since the Kurds are the majority in that region.

But the TCs are a minority. The north part of Cyprus had about 82% GCs and just 18% TCs. How can such territory become a "Turkish Republic"?

If you want to live in a country where majority are Turks, that place exists only in Anatolia. So go back to Turkey, so we can solve the problems you created to our island since you invaded us.

Just like Estonia is now free, and the Russians who live there are a minority, so should Cyprus be free, and the Turks who live here are a minority like the Russians in Estonia.

[TSJ]

Having interests on Cyprus I came on this forum to see if there were any Cypriots about yet………….so far all ive found are Greeks……..so thanks for the advice Priatis….I now know what to do.

[Piratis]

Having interests on Cyprus I came on this forum to see if there were any Cypriots about yet………….so far all ive found are Greeks……..so thanks for the advice Priatis….I now know what to do.

Cypriots are Greeks, along with Athenians, Cretans etc. Just like people of London, Manchester, Liverpool etc are English. Thats how it is for 1000s of years (far longer for Greeks than for the English). And yes, in Cyprus there are none Greek minorities, just like there are none Greek minorities in Athens or Crete, and just like there are none English minorities in London and Manchester.

Foreign imperialists denied to Cypriots their right to be part of the Greek state, but what they can not do is to change our ethnicity.

[TSJ]

Thank you Piratis


Just wondering what percentage of Cypriots share Piratis’s views?

[BirKibrisli]

Bir, one way or another its almost "game over" for the TCs as well - hence the "revolt" Turkey may have felt it was surounded by Greek islands 40 years ago but within the EU that is of no consequence. Turkey is hanging on to the island to keep the military quiet for the time being. As power wanes from the generals towards the government so the need to stay recedes. Future setbacks in the Turkish economy will be blamed on the fact that the EU membership was forsaken in favour of a few thousand TCs, then you will see Turkey change its attitude towards both the EU and the ungrateful ones.

There was an interesting translation from a mainland newspaper here below.
Perhaps it gives an idea why, in addition to “strategic” reasons, Turkey conquered the north
Starts at message 45, translation further down.

http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/55525.asp


We did not love saving the TCs we loved capturing the land. We gave them peace and security is just pretend. As sons of Ottomons we loved conquering for the first time in 300 years. Hatay does not count, we did not fire a single bullet for that.

We did not see them as the saved, we see them as captured. Gave us a superiority complex to suppress our inferiority complex

I can't argue with you ,.Jerry...That is why i keep saying you are cutting off your nose to spite your face...You didnt want to share power with 120,000 TCs according to the 1960 Constitution,now you are paying the price! Turkey will never get into the EU,and will never get out of Cyprus without a war! when you finally make the ultimate mistake of using arms against the trnc the whole of Cyprus will be captured,and not one finger will be lifted by anyone to help you...The game is over...The final chapter is not played out yet,but given all the indications,it will be in not so distant future!
I don't take any pleasure in writing this...

bir now is the time to through them (leaders) in a room with the 1960 Constitution, and let them out when they find a solution ....do you agree ?

Yes....It was the best chance we had of independence and nationhood...We have Buckley's chance of agreeing on anything else ever again...

[BirKibrisli]

I wasn't even born then you fool. My family voted for Makarios and they supported him, so even if I was alive why would I want to bring down Makarios?

We didn't "shoot ourselves", but the fascists that always ruled and continue to rule Turkey, found the chance during the brief period that Greece was also ruled by fascists, to create a problem to Cyprus.

But you did shoot yourselves on the foot, since the majority of your population choose to side with fascist Turkey instead of the Cypriot people who were fighting against the coupists and the invaders. Cyprus will be liberated sooner or later, but it will take a while, and I doubt we will find any Turkish Cypriot when we will liberate our lands. All we will find will be Turkish Settlers, who will get send back to Anatolia where they came from. The days of Turkish Cypriots are numbered, and you have only yourself and your greed to blame for this.

If you want to see a fool,look into the mirror,Piratis...
By YOU I don't mean you,the born again GC fanatical propagandist and disinformation clown,I mean those GCs who wanted to gift my homeland to Greece...They have shot themselves in both feet,and now it is your turn to blow out your brains...

I too thought that the TC days were numbered but 50,000 of them proved me wrong the other week! They are the heros who are standing between YOU and the Turkification of the whole island...But YOU are too thick to see it...

[BirKibrisli]

Bir, one way or another its almost "game over" for the TCs as well - hence the "revolt" Turkey may have felt it was surounded by Greek islands 40 years ago but within the EU that is of no consequence. Turkey is hanging on to the island to keep the military quiet for the time being. As power wanes from the generals towards the government so the need to stay recedes. Future setbacks in the Turkish economy will be blamed on the fact that the EU membership was forsaken in favour of a few thousand TCs, then you will see Turkey change its attitude towards both the EU and the ungrateful ones.

There was an interesting translation from a mainland newspaper here below.
Perhaps it gives an idea why, in addition to “strategic” reasons, Turkey conquered the north
Starts at message 45, translation further down.

http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/55525.asp


We did not love saving the TCs we loved capturing the land. We gave them peace and security is just pretend. As sons of Ottomons we loved conquering for the first time in 300 years. Hatay does not count, we did not fire a single bullet for that.

We did not see them as the saved, we see them as captured. Gave us a superiority complex to suppress our inferiority complex

I can't argue with you ,.Jerry...That is why i keep saying you are cutting off your nose to spite your face...You didnt want to share power with 120,000 TCs according to the 1960 Constitution,now you are paying the price! Turkey will never get into the EU,and will never get out of Cyprus without a war! when you finally make the ultimate mistake of using arms against the trnc the whole of Cyprus will be captured,and not one finger will be lifted by anyone to help you...The game is over...The final chapter is not played out yet,but given all the indications,it will be in not so distant future!
I don't take any pleasure in writing this...

Bir, you confuse power sharing in 1960, that elements on both sides viewed as an interim measure, with an undemocratic set-up that that reminded GCs of Ottoman domination. No other colonial minority on earth was ever awarded as much power as the TCs by the Zurich agreement.

Cyprus was, and still is, the only country in the world where outsiders can "legally" intervene in its affairs by the use of force. It effectively means that Cyprus was never a true sovereign state according to the terms of the UN Charter. "Independence" was a sham.

As for Turkey and the EU, even outside the club Turkey already derives huge economic benefits through its customs union, about half of its exports and most of its inward investment in fact. With this in mind it would be Turkey that cut its nose off to spite its face in the event of conflict. The EU would restrain the ROC from initiating a conflict , I'm sure.

Jerry,
The 1960 agreements were not supposed to be an example to all things democratic...It was the best possible arrangement for two rival and hostile communites to coexist...You could've chosen to see the TCs not as 'colonial minority' but as compatriots and partners in a brand new experiment in peaceful political cohabitation...But you tried to force Enosis down our throats,and the rest is history...whichever way this saga ends,Cypriots will be the losers...all of them!

[BirKibrisli]

Thank you Piratis


Just wondering what percentage of Cypriots share Piratis’s views?

As a rough estimation I'd say about 76%...That was the proportion of GCs who voted against the Annan Plan,was it not???

ps
Welcome to our little Forum,TSJ...Stick around and you will find out why we will never have a peaceful solution to our 'little' problem...