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Can’t find a “Greece” on the map!

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Re: Can’t find a “Greece” on the map!

Postby Lit » Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:24 am

Get Real! wrote:
Lit wrote:
Get Real! wrote:Can’t find a “Greece” on the map!

Cypriots need to wake up to the fact that Greece is a 19th century creation (1829 to be more precise). Prior to that no such place as “Greece” EVER existed!

Trying to find a place called “Greece”…

Map of Europe 800AD - Greece here is called “East Roman Empire”
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/maps/900eur.jpg



From the same link....

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/eb11-greece.html

Reading is fundamental. Read your own links . Pretty much answers all your questions and on Cyprus too. Also, you currently may not find this area on a map today but the mountain Turks still call some area in the middle east as Kurdistan. Now why is that?

:wink:

Unfortunately for you, up to and including 1829 there was no such thing as Greece or Greeks anywhere on this planet, so any contemporary writings that refer to such labels/entities is nothing but a sham that was manufactured and propagated by these fraudsters in the early 1800s!



Oh obviously. You know, I really cant thank you enough for this link:

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/eb11-greece.html

LOL
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Re: Can’t find a “Greece” on the map!

Postby Get Real! » Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:30 am

Lit wrote:Oh obviously. You know, I really cant thank you enough for this link:

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/eb11-greece.html

LOL

Dude, if it’s not on a map it didn’t exist and it’s by no accident that the Old Testament makes no mention of such a place whatsoever!
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Re: Can’t find a “Greece” on the map!

Postby Lit » Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:47 am

Get Real! wrote:
Lit wrote:Oh obviously. You know, I really cant thank you enough for this link:

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/eb11-greece.html

LOL

Dude, if it’s not on a map it didn’t exist and it’s by no accident that the Old Testament makes no mention of such a place whatsoever!


Thanks GR...i bookmarked the site:

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/eb11-greece.html

Did you read what it says about Cyprus?

LOL
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Re: Can’t find a “Greece” on the map!

Postby Klik » Wed Feb 02, 2011 5:44 am

wyoming cowboy wrote:
Get Real! wrote:Can’t find a “Greece” on the map!

Cypriots need to wake up to the fact that Greece is a 19th century creation (1829 to be more precise). Prior to that no such place as “Greece” EVER existed!

Trying to find a place called “Greece”…

Map of Europe 800AD - Greece here is called “East Roman Empire”
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/maps/900eur.jpg

Map of Europe 1000AD - Greece here is part of the Byzantine Empire
(NB: Major chunk of modern Greece is labeled Bulgaria!)
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historic ... 58-059.jpg

Map of Europe 1200AD - Greece here is part of the Byzantine Empire
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historic ... n_1190.jpg

Map of Europe 1300AD - Greece here is ignored! ???
http://www.verselink.org/maps/christianity_dev_1300.jpg

Map of Europe 1400AD - Greece here is part of the Osmans.
http://www.nonformality.org/wp-content/ ... -large.jpg

Map of Europe 1815AD - Greece here is still part of the Ottoman Empire.
http://www.reisenett.no/map_collection/ ... 5_1905.jpg

This 1850 map is still not aware of anything called “Greece”!
http://www.miklianmaps.com/images/1850% ... alkans.jpg


I give up! I can’t find a single authentic map from the 1800s that includes an entity called “Greece”! :?

So calling Cypriots “Greek Cypriots” means what exactly?

That our great grandparents were in Greece in 1830 because I assure you mine were not!



Regards, MP.



what is it with you and this anti Greek stuff? you live with Greek cypriots, you work with them you probably talk to them and have them as your friends....what is this deep rooted antipathy of Greeks and their culture....I understand some of the older generation felt let down in 74 but its time to let go dude....now go and have a Gyro or baklava or a pizza on me.... :D :D :D :D and have a nice day!!!!!


Don't think 'Get Real!' works... Given the time devoted for nonesense on this forum.
Friends? I think 'Get Real!'s only friends are on this forum.
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Postby Klik » Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:14 am

Get Real! also confused Greeks with the small land they consider home now.

Greeks were all over the world in the past.

Besides mainland Greece and Cyprus where they still are the majority, they used to be in Northen Africa, Anatolia(Turkey), from the Middle East to India, present day Italy, Spanish western coast, French south coast as well as far as Britain. And this is just the BC years.

You can't find Greece on the map. What about Italy? Or Spain? Where is Spain? Ukraine? Romania? Germany? Slovenia? Or even Cyprus which you claim is the cradle of civilization? :lol: :lol: :lol:

You think some fancy naming of "Kingdom of Italy" and "Kingdom of Germany" on some maps are actually how they called themselves? :lol:

Italy was a GREEK term used for CALABRIA and it became the name of GREEK CITIZENS OF SOUTHERN ITALY when the Romans went there. They were so impressed with the architecture and the culture they found, they adopted the name and culture. The term Italy "died" ever since the Byzantine Empire was implemented (also called GRECO-ROMAN EMPIRE) just as the term Greek didn't mean much. It was a UNITED RACE. Greeks and Italians living under one flag. Until the greed forced them apart. 19th century, NATIONS started to develop. Both Italy and Greece had to create their own. They combined according to identity. Italians have somehow achieved their nation. Greece still hasn't and now there's not much of a nation left outside the borders since the Turks and Nassr massacred almost all of them :roll:


Italy as an "idea" started in the early 19th century. Germany as an idea involved AUSTRIA as well, because they were called Germanic people. There was no Germany on any map before Bismarck marked the unification, excluding Austria!

It was all about Prussia, Bavaria, Austria in Germany.... Lombardia, Piedmont, Napoli etc in Italy!

I love giving you history lessons but I think i'll start charging after this one. It was supposed to be 1st lesson free but it became like first 10 lessons free so far :lol:

Also, Kingdom of Cyprus 1190.. Are you gonna use that as well? Or do you wanna know that a lord BOUGHT Cyprus and gave the island an "independent" status, which meant that person and his children and their children would rule the place without giving a damn about its people...? :roll:

Before coming out with another "bright" idea, read a book or twenty, cross-reference what you'll say some 25 times, then come and post your crap. And don't start with your turn forward coz you have already reached the bottom of the barrel, don't try digging even lower, you''ll hit your head...

I guess all we can do with rotten stuff is throw them away. Because if we leave them be, they will get pests all over the place. Cyprus has enough pests since 1571, don't bring us more and save yourself from the misery.


Greece is the idea of pan-Hellinism. Failed? Maybe. Still at works? Could be. The so called "Megali Idea" is not one of senseless expansionism, but a liberation of the lands. It started in 1821 and would have succeded by early 1920s if there wasn't any backstabbing and treason within(usual stuff)

Interesting subjects:

Greco-Buddhism How the Greeks changed the way of life in the Far East...

Elche, Alicante Two Spanish cities who celebrate their Greek history

Calabria/Sicily populations Speak with people from there and they will tell you of the pride they feel about having possibly Greek roots!

Kalesh see how some people in central Asia have preserved their Greek culture as much as possible from ancient times till today.

Greece is an idea that apparently you cannot grasp. Feel free to drool over some maps your mind doesn't have the capacity to understand... :lol:

And on a finishing note, HOW ON EARTH DO THESE MAPS PROVE YOUR THEORY THAT GREEKS ARE SLAVS? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

More like Italians vs Turks isn't it? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Dufous.... :!:
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Postby Piratis » Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:19 am

So calling Cypriots “Greek Cypriots” means what exactly?

That our great grandparents were in Greece in 1830 because I assure you mine were not!


It means that we are Greek.

The ethnicity of people is not defined by the borders of empires/kingdoms/countries. Until the 19th century there were very few Nation states, most people lived under multi-ethnic empires. So there is nothing very special about Greece in this respect. But even today, there are ethnic groups without their own separate country (e.g. Kurds, Tibetans etc) but also ethnic minorities in nations were the majority is of a different ethnic group.

Therefore trying to equate ethnic identity with the borders of countries or empires is a very naive approach. Ethnic groups are not defined within borders. You can have members of an ethnic group living in many different countries, and you can even have an ethnic group without a separate country.
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Postby Mikiko » Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:59 pm

Leave anyone free to define themselves whatever they want you can not force people to be Greek If they arent in the first place and an island that was inhabited by so many races thousands of years its unlikely for the the majority to be one race (Ie GREEK).Its Common Sense. Just If they accepted to speak Greek language it does not mean they are Greek.
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Postby Get Real! » Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:06 pm

Piratis wrote:
So calling Cypriots “Greek Cypriots” means what exactly?

That our great grandparents were in Greece in 1830 because I assure you mine were not!


It means that we are Greek.

The ethnicity of people is not defined by the borders of empires/kingdoms/countries. Until the 19th century there were very few Nation states, most people lived under multi-ethnic empires. So there is nothing very special about Greece in this respect. But even today, there are ethnic groups without their own separate country (e.g. Kurds, Tibetans etc) but also ethnic minorities in nations were the majority is of a different ethnic group.

Therefore trying to equate ethnic identity with the borders of countries or empires is a very naive approach. Ethnic groups are not defined within borders. You can have members of an ethnic group living in many different countries, and you can even have an ethnic group without a separate country.

That’s just utter nonsense! Cypriots DO NOT SHARE ANYTHING with a bunch of Slavic clowns who formed a state in a tiny corner of Europe in the 1800s, a whole 600 miles away from Cyprus!

These people are NOT the only ones who were using “Greek” as a language (a product of Cyprus) or Christianity (as spread by Cypriots), just as English and Christianity are common these days in many countries…

There are many countries today which (1) read and write in English (2) are Protestant and/or Catholic Christians and (3) have common Viking/Nordic roots even, yet they DO NOT identify themselves as an ethnicity by any measure!

In the case of Cypriots, they DO NOT have any common ancestry with Slavs, Bulgarians, Gypsies, and all other variations of human bastardization that took on the label “Greeks”.

You need to start thinking for yourself and applying common sense if you are to see reality.
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Postby Get Real! » Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:12 pm

Klik wrote:Get Real! also confused Greeks with the small land they consider home now.

Greeks were all over the world in the past.

You know Giftous? They are indeed all over the world!
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Postby Daniella » Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:45 pm

I agree with Klik , south Italy has preserved greek dialet ( grico ) which is still similar to modern greek :wink:
short poem below

Εβώ πάντα σε σένα πενσέω,
γιατί σένα φσυχή μου 'γαπώ,
τσαι που πάω, που σύρνω, που στέω
στην καρδιά μου πάντα σένα βαστώ.

Evò panta se sena pensèo,
jatì sena fsichì mu gapò,
ce pu pao, pu sirno, pu steo
stin kardìa mu panta sena vastò.


I dont know if it depends upon my skill or just because we have same roots but for me understand greek is easy ( more easy than German for example ) my cipriot family says filoglossìa :oops:
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