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Am I a hypocrite?

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Am I a hypocrite?

Postby antifon » Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:09 pm

Image

1. Why should EQUALITY be different for a 10% (18%?) Turkish-Cypriot community [in the Republic of Cyprus] than for a 22% (30%?) Kurdish community [in the Republic of Turkey]?

2. Why should a 10% (65.000 souls, once 120.000) community's language be an official language & that of a 22% community (18.000.000) not?

When will we all realize that the answers to these simple questions will allow us more easily agree on the principles that should govern an agreed solution in Cyprus?


Correct answers:
1. It shouldn't.
2. It should be too.

http://antifon.blogspot.com
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Postby Klik » Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:29 pm

You are wasting your time if you want to tackle this with reason :D
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Re: Am I a hypocrite?

Postby insan » Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:32 pm

antifon wrote:Image

1. Why should EQUALITY be different for a 10% (18%?) Turkish-Cypriot community [in the Republic of Cyprus] than for a 22% (30%?) Kurdish community [in the Republic of Turkey]?

2. Why should a 10% (65.000 souls, once 120.000) community's language be an official language & that of a 22% community (18.000.000) not?

When will we all realize that the answers to these simple questions will allow us more easily agree on the principles that should govern an agreed solution in Cyprus?


Correct answers:
1. It shouldn't.
2. It should be too.

http://antifon.blogspot.com


Antifon the gramophone... :wink:

Solution to Kurdish problem (2): Revitalizing peaceful coexistence


23.07.2008 by ALTAN TAN*

The idea of an ethnic federation is not an ideal response to contemporary needs, just as the idea of recognizing a separate state or government model for every sect and language would not be appropriate.

Moreover, an ethnic federation would not fit into Turkey's conditions for a number of reasons.
About 60 percent of the Kurds living in Turkey live in western Turkey, in cities like İstanbul, Ankara, Izmir, Adana, Mersin and Bursa. In Syria, Iraq and Iran, on the other hand, Kurds mostly settled in their own geographies and were not so dispersed throughout other parts of the country.

It is estimated that the number of marriages between Turks and Kurds is above 1 million. It is not possible to observe the same level of this phenomenon in Kurdish-Arab or Kurdish-Persian relations in Iran, Iraq and Syria. These marriages mixed the Kurds and Turks and complicated the social relations between these groups.

Economic integration is at an advanced level. Kurds have secured substantial economic resources in almost every part of Turkey and made huge amounts of investments. In economic terms, there are countless partnerships between Turks and Kurds. Their interests are interrelated. On the other hand, while there are problems with regard to political and cultural rights, the Kurds enjoy equal status as citizens. A substantial number of Syria's Kurds, however, are not even citizens yet.

In cities like Kars, Iğdır, Erzurum, Sivas, Erzincan, Elazığ, Malatya, Kahramanmaraş, Gaziantep and Adıyaman, Kurds and Turks are intermingled and live together, whereas 20-30 percent of the population in cities like Mardin, Şanlıurfa, Batman and Siirt is Arab. As such, even determining the boundaries of an ethnic federation would pose a great challenge. For all these reasons, nobody would consider a population exchange, by which Kurds and Turks alike would be displaced.

Those who promote the idea of a federation in Turkey assert that such problems could be resolved by recognizing the democratic rights of the ethnic groups other than the Kurds in the Kurdish areas within the borders of the federation and of the Kurds in western Turkey. This method, which could work out partially in Iraq, Syria and Iran, would cause serious problems in Turkey and probably wouldn't even resolve the matter. Instead of resorting to this option, which would inevitably lead the country into serious clashes, controversies and turmoil, it is obvious that it will be wiser to seek the solution in the democratization of the entire country.

Democratizing all of Turkey is a shortcut. It should be possible to open and sustain schools that provide Kurdish language instruction in İstanbul and schools offering Turkish language lessons in Hakkari. Everybody should be able to receive the lessons they want.
Project of coexistence

The most realistic path to resolving the Kurdish problem in Turkey is to revitalize the project of coexistence. Other approaches will make the issue more complicated, rather than resolving it, and cause greater pains. The successful experience of coexistence over the last 1,000 years -- with the exception of the Republican era -- is our historical reference. Islam is an important common denominator. If there is no serious hatred between these two peoples despite the fact that 40,000 have died as a result of the conflict in the last three decades, the most important factor behind this is the religious unity between Turks and Kurds. But it should also be noted that continuation of the policies of denial, repression and assimilation followed since 1923 -- in short, the current status quo -- is not possible. The will and eagerness for coexistence should be renewed and confirmed with a new social contract. For a resolution based on coexistence, the following economic, political and social measures should be taken:
1. Political measures

A new civilian and democratic constitution should be made. In this constitution, the borders and flag of Turkey should be preserved and the official language should be Turkish. The expression, "Everybody is Turkish," in the current Constitution should be changed and the definition of citizenship should be revised. Either everyone in the Republic of Turkey should be considered a citizen or Turkishness should be redefined.

The rights of all differences, such as like religion, sect, ethnicity and language, to exist and be sustained should be taken under constitutional protection.

Education in Kurdish should be made possible. To this end, the provision in the current draft constitution that reads "Education in languages other than Turkish is regulated by law" is positive. As a start, optional Kurdish language courses should be offered. The ultimate goal should be to ensure that everyone has the opportunity of receiving education in their native languages.

Also, Kurdology institutes and philology departments should be opened at universities. The limited Kurdish language broadcasting on radio and TV should be expanded to private TV stations. A TRT station should be reserved for broadcasting in the languages of Kurmanji and Zaza.

The original names of all geographical locations should be reinstituted.
2. Social policy

About 3,000 villages have been evacuated in the Southeast and some 3 million people have been displaced. The region also suffers from serious problems, including migration, rapid urbanization, drug use, prostitution, female suicide, an undereducated young population (47 percent of Diyarbakır's population is under the age of 15), homelessness, gangs and unemployment. Traumas associated with murders whose perpetrators are still at large and illegal arrests, detentions, convictions and torture have disrupted the social subconscious in the region. For this reason, a rehabilitation program that considers all these problems should be implemented.

A general amnesty for members of the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) perhaps should be granted to heal the wounds. However, amnesty will not resolve anything without making political and economic improvements. This will be just as useless as the "return to home" laws that were previously promulgated. The reason those who went into the mountains chose to do so should be clearly identified and it should be realized that their return home will not be possible without improving the conditions at home. Those who were subjected to inhumane treatment and torture in Diyarbakır Prison following the Sept. 12, 1980 coup were forced to recover their honor in the mountains because all democratic channels were closed. The general amnesty should not be limited to those in the mountains; it should also involve prisoners and people in exile. There is a visible Kurdish diaspora in Europe.

The Diyarbakır E-Type Military Prison, where inhumane torture was committed and where the PKK was born, should be shut down and turned into a museum of brotherhood, peace and humanity.
3. Economic measures

A serious economic program should be implemented in the region. Private and public sector investments should be carried out simultaneously. The economic policy should be determined realistically and every city should be reviewed separately.

New commercial border crossings should be opened with Iraq, Iran, Syria, Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaijan and customs and visa bureaucracy should be curtailed.
Relations with the Kurdish federal state in northern Iraq

While these improvements and reforms are made in Turkey, relations with northern Iraq's Kurdish regional government need to be enhanced and political, cultural, economic, social and sporting integration should be completed. Turkey needs to see the Kurdish regional government as an opportunity to become a regional power and to reach into the region as a brother, rather than an enemy. Turkey should seek to assist the Kurdish government, rather than destroy it. The Kurdish regional government should be restructured based on a democratic approach consistent with contemporary principles, rather than a classical Jacobin and laicist approach. All ethnic groups, including Arabs, Turkmens, Shiites, Sunnis, Yazidis, Assyrians, Nasturis and Keldanis should have the same democratic rights and the Kurdish regional government should be open to integration with Persians, Turks and Arabs. Such a policy will be a model for the Middle East. The problem is vital for Turkey. There is no chance of success for a policy that fails to win over the Kurds and make them partners in Middle East policies. This has been the case since the 1071 Battle of Malazgirt and the 1514 Battle of Chaldiran. Besides, for us, the problem is an issue of a humanistic and Islamic brotherhood, rather than gaining or losing something. Finally, it could be said that the solution to the Kurdish question can formulated as follows: "Democracy for Turkey; Kurdistan for Iraq."


* Altan Tan is an author and expert on Kurdish politics.


http://www.institutkurde.org/en/info/so ... 12840.html

Now u may understand how unrelated the Kurdish issue and the Cyprus problem with each other...
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Postby Piratis » Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:50 pm

It is funny how insan can post such things and not realize the hypocrisy and the double standards. Just one example:

In cities like Kars, Iğdır, Erzurum, Sivas, Erzincan, Elazığ, Malatya, Kahramanmaraş, Gaziantep and Adıyaman, Kurds and Turks are intermingled and live together, whereas 20-30 percent of the population in cities like Mardin, Şanlıurfa, Batman and Siirt is Arab. As such, even determining the boundaries of an ethnic federation would pose a great challenge. For all these reasons, nobody would consider a population exchange, by which Kurds and Turks alike would be displaced.


But in the case of north Cyprus, where the 80% of the population was Greek, they didn't see displacing the majority of the population as a problem and they still insist that north Cyprus should be Turkish!!


But unlike the case of Cyprus, in the case of Kurdistan nobody would need to be displaced since the Kurds are the majority over a very large territory. The Turks and all other minorities can continue to live as minorities in that territory even after the independence of Kurdistan, and nobody would need to displaced or have his human rights violated in any way.

The Kurds are a nation and they are the majority of Kurdistan from before any Turks came to their area. On the other hand the TCs are a minority which was formed on a territory (Cyprus) which already had a Greek majority in all parts of it. The TC minority in Cyprus is no different than similar minorities formed by colonialists in many parts of the world. (e.g. Muslim minorities in Bulgaria or Greece, minorities of European people in Africa and Asia etc)
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Postby insan » Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:06 pm

Piratis wrote:It is funny how insan can post such things and not realize the hypocrisy and the double standards. Just one example:

In cities like Kars, Iğdır, Erzurum, Sivas, Erzincan, Elazığ, Malatya, Kahramanmaraş, Gaziantep and Adıyaman, Kurds and Turks are intermingled and live together, whereas 20-30 percent of the population in cities like Mardin, Şanlıurfa, Batman and Siirt is Arab. As such, even determining the boundaries of an ethnic federation would pose a great challenge. For all these reasons, nobody would consider a population exchange, by which Kurds and Turks alike would be displaced.


But in the case of north Cyprus, where the 80% of the population was Greek, they didn't see displacing the majority of the population as a problem and they still insist that north Cyprus should be Turkish!!


But unlike the case of Cyprus, in the case of Kurdistan nobody would need to be displaced since the Kurds are the majority over a very large territory. The Turks and all other minorities can continue to live as minorities in that territory even after the independence of Kurdistan, and nobody would need to displaced or have his human rights violated in any way.

The Kurds are a nation and they are the majority of Kurdistan from before any Turks came to their area. On the other hand the TCs are a minority which was formed on a territory (Cyprus) which already had a Greek majority in all parts of it. The TC minority in Cyprus is no different than similar minorities formed by colonialists in many parts of the world. (e.g. Muslim minorities in Bulgaria or Greece, minorities of European people in Africa and Asia etc)


Before any Kurds came to that area, the majority of the population there was Armenians...

Image

http://www.ourararat.com/

Image

www.shalomjerusalem.com


2 different nations have land claims for almost the same area... and it seems, soon the Assyrians will also claim those lands belongs to them... :roll:

Image
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Postby Viewpoint » Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:39 pm

antifon check the "RoC" constitution which has the GCs signature on it.
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Postby antifon » Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:49 pm

Viewpoint wrote:antifon check the "RoC" constitution which has the GCs signature on it.


We each have to answer the question for ourselves. You answered it very clearly. Thank you.
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Postby Viewpoint » Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:52 pm

antifon wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:antifon check the "RoC" constitution which has the GCs signature on it.


We each have to answer the question for ourselves. You answered it very clearly. Thank you.


And your answer is?
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Postby antifon » Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:02 am

Viewpoint wrote:
antifon wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:antifon check the "RoC" constitution which has the GCs signature on it.


We each have to answer the question for ourselves. You answered it very clearly. Thank you.


And your answer is?



I try to answer it here (scroll down a bit):

http://antifon.blogspot.com/2011/01/tri ... hobia.html

and here

http://antifon.blogspot.com/2010/12/bal ... alone.html

my blog in general:

http://antifon.blogpsot.com
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Postby antifon » Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:03 am

antifon wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
antifon wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:antifon check the "RoC" constitution which has the GCs signature on it.


We each have to answer the question for ourselves. You answered it very clearly. Thank you.


And your answer is?



I try to answer it here (scroll down a bit):

http://antifon.blogspot.com/2011/01/tri ... hobia.html

and here

http://antifon.blogspot.com/2010/12/bal ... alone.html

my blog in general:

http://antifon.blogspot.com
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Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:42 pm

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