Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

"we should have at least asked for a few months to renegotiate some of the points which we considered unworkable,"

On this point there is no doubt, we saw it live on our TV screens. The GC delegation tried to get an extension of the negotiations, it submitted a fully thought out request for some chnges to the plan, the very changes mentioned above. It was instantly refused and we went to the idiotic procedure of imposed plebiscites.

[denizaksulu]

Bananiot is right that many Greek-Cypriot refugees would have had the right to go back by now(and under Greek-Cypriot control) if things in 2004 had gone differently AND most of the Turkish forces would have left the island but......
Rather surprisingly,only last week someone in Paphos who I have known for years and is a respected and well-known secondary school teacher with a lot of property here commented that much of the economic woes and demise the island is now facing,with Paphos being worst affected is connected with our failure to achieve a solution to the Cyprus question?When I asked him to elaborate he openly said it was a major blunder to reject outright the Annan Plan in 2004,adding that we should have at least asked for a few months to renegotiate some of the points which we considered unworkable,rather than try to start from the beginning as Christophias has done....he also said that he blames him and not Papadopoulos for our plight because he was the person who got him elected in 2003,rather than allow Clerides the 10 months he was demanding to finalise negotiations on a solution!He also said he has no trust that Christophias will not back-down again when the crunch comes in order to keep DIKOS support to sat in power,just as he changed sides on Good Friday 2004 by calling for a 'No' vote,rather than risk losing AKELS share of power if he opposed Papadopoulos and there was still a No vote!
Unless the parliamentary elections in May reduce DIKOS influence and he then decides to do what he should have done from the beginning and form a coalition with DISY to get a solution approved?
I was amazed to hear this from a Greek-Cypriot in Paphos,especially as I had always presumed he was a staunch 'no' voter?We also discussed some other points but these were the main ones.
On the other hand the first posting under this thread is an example of provocation and bad faith which I don't think should be taken seriously as its suggestions are totally unrealistic and would only gain a lot of negative kudos for Turkey!It is also obvious that the closed area of Varosha is being kept as a bargaining chip for when a solution is finally reached and foreign powers have agreed on this with Ankara since 1974, so opening it up is not on the cards for the foreseeable future or they would have done it years ago!
I have not posted on this forum for a while because quite frankly,some of the comments expressed by certain people on both sides reflect not only political immaturity,but also an absence of logic and constructive thought and any goodwill, something which is desperately needed more than anything else if the situation on this accursed island is ever to change for the better!

Thanks Cymart. Very well put especially the closing remark.

Please do not disappear again as we need people like you to blunt the edge of the knife at our throats - 'our' = Cyprus lovers.

[B25]

You are living in a dream world and are a typical example of the kind of Greek-Cypriots who have ruined this country...why not emigrate to Greece and join ELAM?
Or try to see the other point of view at least!
Baris ve Dostluk.......filia kai erini....

Hark a Brit telling me, I ruined this country. Come again, who ruined this country?

I have nothing to do with Greece, why don't you go back to the UK?? Oh I forgot, your wife still has property in the Varosha. Mr, you aint never gonna see it, so any pro-turkish stance you wish to take will not yield you anything.

There is no other point to see if it includes turkish guarantee rights and all the others, 76% of the population have already mandated that, or have you been sleeping again.

And the next pile of crap 'solution' they place before us will go the same way if it includes such, so get off you high horse.

[Get Real!]

I have not posted on this forum for a while because quite frankly,some of the comments expressed by certain people on both sides reflect not only political immaturity,but also an absence of logic and constructive thought and any goodwill, something which is desperately needed more than anything else if the situation on this accursed island is ever to change for the better!

Had you been politically mature you would’ve been in support of international law…

UN RESOLUTION 361 (1974)
http://www.un.int/cyprus/scr353.htm

UN RESOLUTION 541 (1983)
http://www.un.int/cyprus/scr541.htm

UN RESOLUTION 550 (1984)
http://www.un.int/cyprus/scr550.htm

[cymart]

Firstly I am not from the U.K. but no offence taken about that as all people are the same,wherever they come from....
Secondly,the situation in Cyprus will not be solved by quoting legalities for the sad, but also obvious reason that the world deos not function that way for most of its inhabitants.A very good example is the rejection by the C.of E. of the appeal against Turkey by' Archbigot' Chrysostomos who have refered him to the Turkish Cypriots to seek compensation,just like most other people who greedy lawyers such as Angelides suggested should apply to the E.U. as well...

[Kikapu]

Bananiot is right that many Greek-Cypriot refugees would have had the right to go back by now(and under Greek-Cypriot control) if things in 2004 had gone differently AND most of the Turkish forces would have left the island but......
Rather surprisingly,only last week someone in Paphos who I have known for years and is a respected and well-known secondary school teacher with a lot of property here commented that much of the economic woes and demise the island is now facing,with Paphos being worst affected is connected with our failure to achieve a solution to the Cyprus question?When I asked him to elaborate he openly said it was a major blunder to reject outright the Annan Plan in 2004,adding that we should have at least asked for a few months to renegotiate some of the points which we considered unworkable,rather than try to start from the beginning as Christophias has done....he also said that he blames him and not Papadopoulos for our plight because he was the person who got him elected in 2003,rather than allow Clerides the 10 months he was demanding to finalise negotiations on a solution!He also said he has no trust that Christophias will not back-down again when the crunch comes in order to keep DIKOS support to sat in power,just as he changed sides on Good Friday 2004 by calling for a 'No' vote,rather than risk losing AKELS share of power if he opposed Papadopoulos and there was still a No vote!
Unless the parliamentary elections in May reduce DIKOS influence and he then decides to do what he should have done from the beginning and form a coalition with DISY to get a solution approved?
I was amazed to hear this from a Greek-Cypriot in Paphos,especially as I had always presumed he was a staunch 'no' voter?We also discussed some other points but these were the main ones.
On the other hand the first posting under this thread is an example of provocation and bad faith which I don't think should be taken seriously as its suggestions are totally unrealistic and would only gain a lot of negative kudos for Turkey!It is also obvious that the closed area of Varosha is being kept as a bargaining chip for when a solution is finally reached and foreign powers have agreed on this with Ankara since 1974, so opening it up is not on the cards for the foreseeable future or they would have done it years ago!
I have not posted on this forum for a while because quite frankly,some of the comments expressed by certain people on both sides reflect not only political immaturity,but also an absence of logic and constructive thought and any goodwill, something which is desperately needed more than anything else if the situation on this accursed island is ever to change for the better!

When I asked him to elaborate he openly said it was a major blunder to reject outright the Annan Plan in 2004,adding that we should have at least asked for a few months to renegotiate some of the points which we considered unworkable,rather than try to start from the beginning as Christophias has done.

To the best of my knowledge, more time was asked to go through the Annan Plan properly, or at least to make some changes to it, which was rejected by Turkey. In all honesty, had more time was given to examine the AP thoroughly, the GCs would have voted it DOWN by 90%+ and the TCs would have approved it by 90%+. The whole purpose in trying to get the AP into the referendum as quickly as possible, was not to see what the AP was all about, all 9,000+ pages of it. That was the only chance the AP had ever passing by the GCs was to try and rush it through with as little time as possible to go through it. It was that bad, so I for one do not buy the guy from Paphos with his "what if", because the "what if" would have turned it into far more support for an OXI by the GCs.

How do I know this.?? Why don't you ask how many GCs and TCs on the forum would support the 2004 version of the AP today, and you will get the confirmation as I've stated.!

[Afroasiatis]

Without really being any committed fan of the Anan-Plan, which I don't know much in detail anyway, I notice there are many people who believe that with this Turkey would get control over whole of Cyprus. This view seems strange to me, and I wonder where it is based on.

[kurupetos]

Without really being any committed fan of the Anan-Plan, which I don't know much in detail anyway, I notice there are many people who believe that with this Turkey would get control over whole of Cyprus. This view seems strange to me, and I wonder where it is based on.

Why don't you read it?

[Afroasiatis]

Without really being any committed fan of the Anan-Plan, which I don't know much in detail anyway, I notice there are many people who believe that with this Turkey would get control over whole of Cyprus. This view seems strange to me, and I wonder where it is based on.

Why don't you read it?

What's the point of reading a document of 9,000 pages with no practical value any more?

I read some summaries of it, as they were published in GC side, and I found no such elements. Can someone quote the passages implying Turkey's control over whole of Cyprus?

[cymart]

The problem is that many of its provisions are so complex and leave room for so many various interpretations that reading it is enough to put anyone off!
But it was so excessively derided and cursed by the leadership in power at that time on the G.C. side to such an extent that it made some people here believe that anything other than the present status-quo will be worse that what they have now.....this is the major disadvantage its legacy has left and will be a major hurdle when any feasible agreement is presented that both sides can accept!
But what cannot be denied is that if it had gone through,all the territory of Cyprus would have actively been made part of the E.U(except for the British Bases).,rather than just the south because the acquis is suspended in the north.