Cyprus-Forum.com

[supporttheunderdog]

So what would have happened if Enosis had been implemented, in say 1963?

(a) The Chances are Greece and Turkey would have gone to war -
a. It is unlikely Greece would have made any Territorial gains and if anything would possibly have lost territory in the Aegean as Islands near the Turkish coast would possibly have been occupied and if so possibly ethnically cleansed.
b. Cyprus would probably have been invaded and at best partitioned.

(b) Many of the Civil service Jobs, In particular the better paid senior positions, would probably now not exist in Cyprus. Probably much of the work, particularly at the senior decision making level, would be done in Athens. That in turn would have a knock on effect on other businesses which may benefit from the money such civil servants spend.
(c) Cypriots would have less say in the allocation of resources for infrastructure projects, and would be fighting against other parts of Greece for them.
(d) The Cypriots would however have been paying Greek style taxes which are currently significantly greater then Cypriot rates
Cyprus Tax
€0 - 19,500 Nil Nil
€19,501 - 28,000 20% €1,700 €1,700
€28,001 - 36,300 25% €2,075 €3,775
Over €36,300 30%
Greek Tax
First 10,500 Exempt 0 0
Next 1,500 15% 225 225
Next 18,000 27% 4,860 5,085
Next 45,000 37% 16,650 21,735
Exceeding 75,000 40%
(I am aware that Employees are exempt from the 15% band and there are allowances for Children but a Single Greek in employment earning Euro 20000 pays Euro 2160 while a Cypriot pays Euro 100 and Greek earning 30,000 pays Eur 4860 tax while a single Cypriot earning Eur 30K pays Euro 1900.)
Bearing in mind point (c) there is no guarantee that Cyprus would see any significant benefit from these higher tax payments, which would represent a loss of money from Cyprus, rather than being retained on the Island or at least being spent by Cypriots for their benefit.
(e) Cyprus would probably not have become any sort of an international business centre, which has brought money and jobs to Cyprus.

The chances are that about now those who wanted Enosis might be having a change of mind

[Filitsa]

So what would have happened if Enosis had been implemented, in say 1963?

(a) The Chances are Greece and Turkey would have gone to war -
a. It is unlikely Greece would have made any Territorial gains and if anything would possibly have lost territory in the Aegean as Islands near the Turkish coast would possibly have been occupied and if so possibly ethnically cleansed.
b. Cyprus would probably have been invaded and at best partitioned.

(b) Many of the Civil service Jobs, In particular the better paid senior positions, would probably now not exist in Cyprus. Probably much of the work, particularly at the senior decision making level, would be done in Athens. That in turn would have a knock on effect on other businesses which may benefit from the money such civil servants spend.
(c) Cypriots would have less say in the allocation of resources for infrastructure projects, and would be fighting against other parts of Greece for them.
(d) The Cypriots would however have been paying Greek style taxes which are currently significantly greater then Cypriot rates
Cyprus Tax
€0 - 19,500 Nil Nil
€19,501 - 28,000 20% €1,700 €1,700
€28,001 - 36,300 25% €2,075 €3,775
Over €36,300 30%
Greek Tax
First 10,500 Exempt 0 0
Next 1,500 15% 225 225
Next 18,000 27% 4,860 5,085
Next 45,000 37% 16,650 21,735
Exceeding 75,000 40%
(I am aware that Employees are exempt from the 15% band and there are allowances for Children but a Single Greek in employment earning Euro 20000 pays Euro 2160 while a Cypriot pays Euro 100 and Greek earning 30,000 pays Eur 4860 tax while a single Cypriot earning Eur 30K pays Euro 1900.)
Bearing in mind point (c) there is no guarantee that Cyprus would see any significant benefit from these higher tax payments, which would represent a loss of money from Cyprus, rather than being retained on the Island or at least being spent by Cypriots for their benefit.
(e) Cyprus would probably not have become any sort of an international business centre, which has brought money and jobs to Cyprus.

The chances are that about now those who wanted Enosis might be having a change of mind

And Cyprus today would suffer Greece's economic crisis and then some..

[Piratis]

Enosis could have been implement from the 50s if the UK respected the desires of the Cypriot people and allowed the union to happen just like Rhodes (which was an Italian colony) was united with Greece in 1948 without a single nose breaking or any war between Greece and Turkey.

What would happen is that at the very least Cyprus would today be the same as Crete or Rhodes.

With Cyprus united with Greece, Greece would have been a more powerful nation and this could have helped the Greek nation as a whole to be in a better position today.

But even if we would assume that the crisis in Greece would have happened anyways and it would also affect Cyprus, this crisis is just a temporary problem that will last just for some years, and it is an insignificant issue when compared with the Cyprus Problem, which resulted to the 100s of thousands of Cypriots becoming refugees and having 36% of the territory of Cyprus and 60% of our natural resources under Turkish occupation for several decades.

If Cyprus could have been truly independent (which is what Makarios had in mind when he was the first to propose such thing), that could indeed be better for Cyprus. But as it was proven the Imperialists were not willing to give to Cyprus a true independence, but instead some pseudo independence with a constitution written by foreigners serving their own interests instead of ours, with foreign bases, foreign armies, foreign "guarantors", foreign judges of supreme court, and a Turkish minority which was given the power to deny to the Cypriot people any democratic decision. This was way worst than enosis could have ever been.

[Oracle]

A lot of Greece's economic woes were from expenditure for Cyprus, precisely between 1963 and now.

Let's see, though.

The junta would never have taken control.

The 1974 war and all concomitant loss of life and finances would have been averted.

Most likely, neither Greece (nor Cyprus) would have entered the EU.

The SBAs would have been disbanded. Greece would have sold spying rights to NATO - eliminating the 'need' for Turkey in NATO

However, the best outcome would have been Enosis in ~1950, before Britain wound up Turkey.

[Filitsa]

Sorry guys, but Cyprus thrives economically in large part because it is not Greece. This is a no-brainer.

[AEKTZIS]

Mainland Greeks can learn from us. Elladites have unfortunately inherited certain traits from the Ottomans which have been detrimental to the way they work, and I feel Cypriots inherited some useful traits from the British w.r.t. attitudes to work.

it's one thing to go from ottoman province to free nation...than.....ottoman possession to british colony to free nation. i think the cypriots' 'british habits', are a bit more industrious and tailored towards progression than greeks' 'ottoman habits'.

if enosis had succeeded...i have no doubt the 'real' greeks would be claming the greek cypriots aren't paying their taxes/drain on the military and the main reason for greece's financial crisis. everyone here is well familiar with the ridiculous hellenic mini caste-system...which is kept alive by the intelligensia of such philosophies - who didn't have electricity until 1972.

athenians are the real greeks, the people up north aren't...the people in cyprus are new greeks and the greeks in the usa or australia are really amerikanakia or australakia....much to the huge disappointment of the greek internet warrior from those nations.

[Filitsa]

Mainland Greeks can learn from us. Elladites have unfortunately inherited certain traits from the Ottomans which have been detrimental to the way they work, and I feel Cypriots inherited some useful traits from the British w.r.t. attitudes to work.

it's one thing to go from ottoman province to free nation...than.....ottoman possession to british colony to free nation. i think the cypriots' 'british habits', are a bit more industrious and tailored towards progression than greeks' 'ottoman habits'. if enosis had succeeded...i have no doubt the 'real' greeks would be claming the greek cypriots aren't payi

ng their taxes/drain on the military and the main reason for greece's financial crisis. everyone here is well familiar with the ridiculous hellenic mini caste-system...which is kept alive by the intelligensia of such philosophies - who didn't have electricity until 1972.

athenians are the real greeks, the people up north aren't...the people in cyprus are new greeks and the greeks in the usa or australia are really amerikanakia or australakia....much to the huge disappointment of the greek internet warrior from those nations.

... Couldn't have said it better myself, but then better coming from you than an Amerikanopoula.

[AEKTZIS]

ha better coming from an egglezaki? you sure?

the same cypriot hellenic mini-caste system still exists in cyprus:

-Lefkosiates are the real cypriots, know-it-alls
-Morphites are the snobs
-Paphites are the peasants
-And we all know those of the diaspora, amerikanakia, egglezoi (charlies) ....etc

[Piratis]

Sorry guys, but Cyprus thrives economically in large part because it is not Greece. This is a no-brainer.

The crisis we have now is international one and it has hit Cyprus as well. Greece was one of those hit the hardest, but we are not exactly thriving now either.

If enosis was achieved in the 50s and we had no Cyprus Problem, no 100s of thousands of refugees, and we had control of our whole island and resources, this would far outweigh the disadvantages of having a less than optimal government.

[Filitsa]

ha better coming from an egglezaki? you sure?

the same cypriot hellenic mini-caste system still exists in cyprus:

-Lefkosiates are the real cypriots, know-it-alls
-Morphites are the snobs
-Paphites are the peasants
-And we all know those of the diaspora, amerikanakia, egglezoi (charlies) ....etc

Please make up your mind. In another thread, you wrote that you're Cypriot.