Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikephoros]

I don't believe any of this crap about Cyprus being so important that partition was decided on so far ahead. This book which I cited: Τα μυστικά αρχεία του Κίσιντζερ Η απόφαση για τη διχοτόμηση asserts on page 13 says that after the 1971 vote by the Cypriot UN representative to recognize Commie China, that is when Kissinger decided on letting the Turks invade and partition Cyprus. Remember though, before the USA kept rebuffing Turkish attempts.

The way you guys present it is false. You act like cyprus is the universal center and so important that other countries had to plot hard to fvck it over. The reality is your leaders were wholly immature and ideological. They had some protection and forfeited it. Cypriot leaders fvcked their people over by being unrealistic, ideological and drunk with representing a new nation. It would have been so easy to avoid the Cyprus invasion only three components: don't alienate Greece, don't alienate USA, build your National Guard to a level where it can repel external armies.

What happened is that in Cyprus the ideological left not capable to secure independence, has made lies and misinfo all their sad people know. So you guys stick the blame at all these imagined imperialists so interested in your island, evil nationalists, evil national goal of Enosis. The reality is they have nothing to do with securing a new nation. You guys have to make leftist traitors total pariahs and stop voting for them, or you will never have a future as a serious nation. You will just be whining about other nations that can identify and push their interests, while you cannot even identify yours. Your leftist bumpkins have staked your future on some fake two state solution with the same Turkish Cypriot lizards who facilitated the Turkish invasion and created separatist enclaves. Thus you have no future, with their inept leadership.

[wyoming cowboy]

Come on man!!! You have good points Nike, in the cypriot psyche there is a metal wall that stops them from going any further or go where they havent gone before, it sabotages their instincts their thought process and their will.....i have to fight it everyday.

[miltiades]

The Cypriot national political pastime is this :
Hate and blame the USA for all of our problems , the Greeks are the same as they constantly refer to " americaniko daxtilo "
Hate Israel because of its policy towards our ...beloved Palestinians and Hamas !!!
Support any enemy of the USA !
We have not learned from the past and continue in many ways to antagonize the USA the only nation on earth that could bring pressure on Turkey .

[Nikephoros]

That is because of the post-74 political order where everyone should feel sorry for the leftist losers of the Greek and Cypriot Civil Wars. Leftist ideology has soaked Greek society so much, most have become effete fags dead-set against their own national interests, because they want to appear as hip anti-nationalists. Instead they expect powerful countries to actually prosecute their interests. They always end up in the viscous circle of whining and hating the successful nations that not only can identify, but obtain their national interest, while they always feel slighted and humiliated as nations having to endure constant insults and provocations from the fascist tribes of Ankara. But their governments never take strong actions, sticking to to making tepid comments about how it will effect or prove the Turkish EU aspiration, about how the EU should fight their battles for them:

Hurriyet: Greek lawyer and politician Andreas Loverdos, a leading figure in the ruling Pan-Hellenic Socialist Movement, or PASOK, said the decision was “historic because it transforms the disputes between Greece and Turkey into [disputes between] Turkey and the European Union.”

Ta Nea: «Η απόφαση του ΕΔΑΔ ενδυναμώνει το νομικό- πολιτικό υπόβαθρο για τις ελληνοτουρκικές σχέσεις, αφού τις μετατρέπει καθολικά σε ευρωτουρκικές. Είναι κατανοητό πια σε όλους ότι η Τουρκία πρέπει να σεβαστεί το κοινοτικό κεκτημένο, προκειμένου να προχωρήσει στην πορεία της για την Ε.Ε», δήλωσε ο πολιτικός εκπρόσωπος του ΠΑΣΟΚ για θέματα Εξωτερικών Ανδρέας Λοβέρδος.

The ideological miasma of the Greek world is heartening. They keep inventing conspiracy theories and externalizations of blame to blame other countries and not accept any of their massive failings.

[wyoming cowboy]

The Cypriot national political pastime is this :
Hate and blame the USA for all of our problems , the Greeks are the same as they constantly refer to " americaniko daxtilo "
Hate Israel because of its policy towards our ...beloved Palestinians and Hamas !!!
Support any enemy of the USA !
We have not learned from the past and continue in many ways to antagonize the USA the only nation on earth that could bring pressure on Turkey .

its the slave mentality that pervades throughout the former ottoman empire, sit and learn to play tavli dont think, dont trust the man next to you because he might turn you in to the ottomans, the ottomans will gives us government work, therefore backstab the guy next to you so he wont get the job.......we cant do anything because they wont let us(ottomanSthen,)now the imperialist usa/england nato....we are palikaria but they wont let us fight.....dont go for the obvious solution its an ottoman trap...walk around the obvious and logical choice just smell it a bit and do the opposite, dont go with the west because if you do then they will bring the turks.....

[Jerry]

I would not disagree with much of what has been said but even the existence of US bases on the island would not have guaranteed Cyprus’s security. The presence of US bases would have no doubt facilitated a Turkish invasion had the island adopted a communist government.

Makarios may have had leftist leanings but it wasn’t only his supporters that endorsed his foreign policy. Greek Cypriots of all political persuasions were, and still are, anti -American as this forum clearly demonstrates.

I believe what goes around comes around, now it’s Turkey’s turn to reject America, perhaps the Yanks will once again seek an unsinkable aircraft carrier in the Med.

[quattro]

One factor, underestimated by Kissinger in the handling of the Cyprus crisis of 1974, was the reaction of Congress. American politicians saw with horror the effects of U.S. foreign policy in Cyprus. More than one third of the island was now occupied territory, NATO was facing its worst internal crisis in the history of both Greece and Turkey were on the brink of war. When, on 18 August, the State Department spokesman Hartmann denied that the U.S. had favored Turkey, MEPs were outraged by the continuing coverage of a policy which had "almost catastrophic" consequences.
The representative of Indiana's Lee Hamilton replied that "we advocate the independence of Cyprus, but now that independence is threatened and it seems that led to partition. Our relations with the Greek government have been seriously affected, we are continuing [anti-American] demonstrations in Greece. A distinguished American ambassador was assassinated ...

Two good friends, Greece and Turkey, are on the brink of war on this issue. But you can not find any flaw in U.S. foreign policy, no problem. It is extremely difficult for this Commission to accept the results so far "
Despite the furious reaction to Kissinger, members of Congress and Senate intensified their pressure for an arms embargo on Turkey, if ultimately imposed, had a devastating effect on confidence in Ankara in Washington.
Senator Paul Sarbanes, summarized the charges against Kissinger and officials as follows:

"Despite warnings from various information sources, including members of the Congress ... the State Di partment at each turning point, not taken the necessary steps to prevent the tragedy now facing. He refused to support the Archbishop Makarios, the democratically elected president of Cyprus, where such support would save the stability and peace in Cyprus. Failed to deter the Turkish military intervention, condemning the coup ¬ kazontas in Cyprus. He refused to exert pressure on Turkey so to prevent the invasion and to contain and reduce the Turkish military action, when it had become an invasion. Compare, if you want this policy to the operations of the late President Johnson, who, warned Turkey it bluntly, do not make war, secure peace in the region "

[humanist]

More logical proof that the illegal invasion/occupation of Cyprus by Turkey is a relic of the Cold War....Without approval from the us state department the turks would have not moved.

Lets sue the pants off the US

[quattro]

[Bananiot]

The USA did not betray Cyprus. This is childish talk by gossipers of the lowest standard. The USA bases its policies on "realpolitik". But, we always like to find a scapegoat to blame. Here is another one that may give us more ground to lay the blame.

The Soviet Union did the same at the time of the invasion, that is, resorted to realpolitik. Probably the Soviet Union gave the green light to Turkey to invade because the invasion was in the interests of the Soviets. A rift in NATO would have been rather good for them. A day before the coup against Makarios, Lazaros Skalistis, member of the Central Committee of AKEL, asked for an urgent meeting with Ezekias Papaioannou, the General Secretary of AKEL, to tell him of information he had that the coup was to take place early morning of the following day. Papaioannou lifted the middle finger of his right hand and said "they (the coupists) will sit on it". Then, when the invasion was ongoing, the Soviet Union supported Turkey. TASS reported that the Turkish forces were meeting strong resistance from the coupists! Astavin, the Soviet Ambassador to Nicosia, tried to prevent AKEL from issuing a condemning announcement of the invasion.

Realpolitik defines what is correct and what is wrong. Piratis may think that it is all about principles and ethics but of course he lacks political culture. He can try his luck in a Monastery but I am afraid things may be worse in a house of God.

I hate it when we expect foreigners to shoulder all the blame for our misfortunes. The blame lies primarily with us! Our leaders, here in Cyprus and in Greece, failed to grasp the rules of realpolitik. They failed to study the map of the area and incorporate our national interests into a realistic frame. Instead, because of their nationalism that blinded them, led the people to opting for unrealistic goals that were incompatible with the geopolitical facts of our part of the world. We wanted enosis even after 1959 and expected everybody to say yes to this fair and democratic ask of the majority of Cypriots. But, we were not alone and we should have known that if it came to the crunch, the USA would side with Turkey, a country far more important than Cyprus, especially during the height of the cold war era.

Realpolitik! The desirable! The feasible! These are empty words for the brainless nationalists but ... look where we are now. Piratis and the rest of the nationalists have not learned anything and they are now asking for something which will be better for us than the 1959 agreements. Very patriotic, but very foolish, another mistake and goodbye Cyprus.