Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikephoros]

Try reading real sources your own researchers have written like Τα μυστικά αρχεία του Κίσιντζερ Η απόφαση για τη διχοτόμηση to get the correct timeline. USA had a shift in policy after October 25, 1971 in the United Nations when Spyros Kyprianou representing Cyprus voted to recognize China in the United Nations(vote 2578). This is the point Kissinger had enough and finally agreed to greenlight the invasion Ankara had been pushing for since the 1960s. Before this like I said in my parable the USA prevented Trexo(the running nation)/Cyprus from being invaded by Turkey. All because your stupid gypsy leaders thought they could do whatever they wanted to suit their left ideology, instead of secure their independence by proving loyalty for American protection. Blame your past leaders and your stupid ancestors for supporting them and stop whining and bitching because other nations can prosecute and identify their interests.

And you are mistaken very much. Americans are a real nation that will call any enemy their enemy. Majority of your people are cowards who will say they are not Greek to appease Turks, lest they be accused of genociding Turkish Cypriots again. Real nations like Americans should be mocking you, if they could bother to learn about the whiny Cypriot ethos and mentality. But for that to happen Cyprus would have to matter in this world. How many out of your population even consider Turkish Cypriots as the enemies they act like? Do you ever think such nonsense would happen in the USA? Remember what population is leftist fairies in their majority and which is not. The majority of your population think they need to abolish their own nationalism and the values that bind them as a nation to "solve the Cyprus Problem" and live with Turks in an anti-nationalist fairy Shangri-la their leftist opinion leaders concocted after their humiliating policies led to total military defeat.

[Bananiot]

prosecute their interests? what are u on about?

Henry Kissinger did nothing against Cyprus compared to the man below!



And this man, too.

[miltiades]

I just have to come in in support of everything that Nikephoros has posted.
We , the Cypriots , instead of looking after our OWN interests were instead supporting anyone and everyone that stood against America. Today on this forum we see examples of this stupidity , read the clowns posts and you will see.
The interests of Cyprus were best prosecuted by being American friendly not bloody Cuba, China , Egypt and every other non influential third world developing country. Our own President and Archbishop recently visited Cuba and stood up to applaud when Castro referred to our common enemy , the USA !!!! Well the USA IS NOT my enemy and neither is the enemy of the forward looking Cypriots who have Cyprus's interests as the prime objective.
Today we are still following the same stupid direction we did back in the 60s apart that is from our EU membership.
For the interests of our island we should be prepared to do the utmost , that means embarking on a strategic and political relationship with those that matter ,Israel amongst them but Oh no Palestinians , Hamas and Bin fucking Laden are the heroes of some.
Re O nouros tou shillo en ishioni !
LONG LIVE AMERICA THE GREATEST NATION ON EARTH ( AFTER CYPRUS !)

[Bananiot]

Miltiades, the USA had no interest in toppling Makarios. In fact it intervened to stop the hotheads of the Greek junta and their G. Cypriot collaborators from doing so on a number of occasions. Being a country that bases its policies on rationality, the USA did not want to risk a rift in NATO at a time when the Israelis had another major war with the Arabs and the Soviet Union waited in the wings with its fleet on call in Syrian ports.

However, Greek Americans played a decisive roll, along with the US Ambassador, Taska, to Athens. To begin to get an idea of what was happening, read about the role of Gust Avrokotos, a Greek American drafted to the CIA and who spoke Greek like a native Greek. Also, read about the businessman, Tom Pappas.

[miltiades]

Bananiot , I have always believed unshakably that had Makarios pursued American friendly policies , had he agreed to America having bases in Cyprus and had he declared to the people of Cyprus that their interests and those of their island were best served by being a close ally to America , Turkey would not today be occupying a third of an American ally country .
I put it down to the acute absence of diplomatic skills at the time , today however there is no excuse.
I'm , as I have said many times before , very happy that our island is now a part of the EU , NATO membership will not be detrimental to our interests either.

[Jerry]

Nikephoros, Makarios was no different to other leaders at that time in playing off one superpower against the other. What he omitted to take into account was the fact that a regional power with “relatives” on the island was a firm ally of the West and in particular the US.

Turkey today is repeating Makarios’s mistake by appearing to move away from the US and the EU by ignoring its dependence on them for weapons and trade.

Now Israel has entered the equation will the US turn on Turkey as it did with Iraq?

[wyoming cowboy]

Makarios was playing a dangerous game with the superpowers, ignoring the needs of the usa, at the height of the cold war led Cyprus to the situation it is in today, The junta and Turkey were the tools used to neutralize Makarios and all of Hellenism is in a weaker position. One of Makarios' reasons for not allowing a usa base on Cyprus in the 60's was that the Americans would corrupt the Cypriot youth with drugs and rock and roll...

[wyoming cowboy]

Miltiades, the USA had no interest in toppling Makarios. In fact it intervened to stop the hotheads of the Greek junta and their G. Cypriot collaborators from doing so on a number of occasions. Being a country that bases its policies on rationality, the USA did not want to risk a rift in NATO at a time when the Israelis had another major war with the Arabs and the Soviet Union waited in the wings with its fleet on call in Syrian ports.

However, Greek Americans played a decisive roll, along with the US Ambassador, Taska, to Athens. To begin to get an idea of what was happening, read about the role of Gust Avrokotos, a Greek American drafted to the CIA and who spoke Greek like a native Greek. Also, read about the businessman, Tom Pappas.

the usa toppled Makarios for a few days to allow the Turkish invasion and then brought him back in November of 74 with 37 percent of his island under turk ocuppied

[Nikephoros]

Jerry, I will just say it would have been simple for a nation like Cyprus at the time after 1960 to have secured its independence. In 1963 and 1967 when the fascist tribes of Ankara tried to invade President Johnson of the USA strongly rebuffed them(that and they did not receive the donation by the USA of the necessary landing equipment, but they were still strongly rebuffed at that period). I gave a source for the final straw that broke the American patience.

What happened is that the Cypriot leader:
1) Failed to secure diplomatic support from the Mediterranean power(the USA)
2) Alienated the Greek junta with his adoption of extreme leftism(queer for a Archbishop, but he was an opportunist)
3) Never built up a strong, military, instead he sabotaged the National Guard to help found the Efedrikou Somatos(a force like the Soviet CHEKA meant to attack dissidents to the regime of the cassocked bitch in black)

Now instead of realizing these simple truths what the resident and too numerous country bumpkin leftists of Cyprus do and say? Those idiots imagine that the world now and that epoch should have revolved on the whims of the immature, whiny leftist inhabitants of a small, insignificant island. They instead think:
-- "Why couldn't the USA not respect our rights to do anything we wanted and still hold back the Turks from invading us?"
-- "How come the Greek junta which we hated, whose local officers sent to Cyprus we attacked and wanted driven out from the island, didn't help us when the Turks came?"
-- "We didn't and still don't need a military, we needed instead no military, to avoid clashes. Instead we should have but still can eliminate fanatics and nationalists on both sides, and a small internal police force."

If anyone is smart enough to get what I am saying, you have to realize your enemy is internal. Your enemy is the type of idiot that makes all sorts of these excuses to externalize blame. To secure a nation in the manner described is not difficult, the world never operates, "I'll have it my way," there are certain laws, customs, a social hierarchy you must abide by. The Cypriot leaders and people were far too immature to preserve their independence so they ended up invaded a mere 14 years later, and they could have easily stopped it. They messed with the unwritten laws that govern nations, and the lessons still have not been learned. Like I said the USA gifted you the rest of Cyprus as a gesture to Greece, the Turks likely could have continued.

[supporttheunderdog]

Jerry, I will just say it would have been simple for a nation like Cyprus at the time after 1960 to have secured its independence. In 1963 and 1967 when the fascist tribes of Ankara tried to invade President Johnson of the USA strongly rebuffed them(that and they did not receive the donation by the USA of the necessary landing equipment, but they were still strongly rebuffed at that period). I gave a source for the final straw that broke the American patience.

What happened is that the Cypriot leader:
1) Failed to secure diplomatic support from the Mediterranean power(the USA)
2) Alienated the Greek junta with his adoption of extreme leftism(queer for a Archbishop, but he was an opportunist)
3) Never built up a strong, military, instead he sabotaged the National Guard to help found the Efedrikou Somatos(a force like the Soviet CHEKA meant to attack dissidents to the regime of the cassocked bitch in black)

Now instead of realizing these simple truths what the resident and too numerous country bumpkin leftists of Cyprus do and say? Those idiots imagine that the world now and that epoch should have revolved on the whims of the immature, whiny leftist inhabitants of a small, insignificant island. They instead think:
-- "Why couldn't the USA not respect our rights to do anything we wanted and still hold back the Turks from invading us?"
-- "How come the Greek junta which we hated, whose local officers sent to Cyprus we attacked and wanted driven out from the island, didn't help us when the Turks came?"
-- "We didn't and still don't need a military, we needed instead no military, to avoid clashes. Instead we should have but still can eliminate fanatics and nationalists on both sides, and a small internal police force."

If anyone is smart enough to get what I am saying, you have to realize your enemy is internal. Your enemy is the type of idiot that makes all sorts of these excuses to externalize blame. To secure a nation in the manner described is not difficult, the world never operates, "I'll have it my way," there are certain laws, customs, a social hierarchy you must abide by. The Cypriot leaders and people were far too immature to preserve their independence so they ended up invaded a mere 14 years later, and they could have easily stopped it. They messed with the unwritten laws that govern nations, and the lessons still have not been learned. Like I said the USA gifted you the rest of Cyprus as a gesture to Greece, the Turks likely could have continued.

I quite agree with this analysis - Big Mak made quite a few mistakes, in particular by trying to pay power politics overseas, when he should have been sorting out the Island. All of the problems, in particular those that arose after 1963 arose out of his initial failure to kill of Enosis and with it any excuse for Takism, but with the first "A" plan in 1963, seemingly drawn up by tasos Papadop, without external pushing by the CIA, and all that floowed from that, including the initial partition, intervention probabby inevitable and only the USA held it off..