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Deputies vow to block 'Cyprus file' verdict

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Deputies vow to block 'Cyprus file' verdict

Postby Gasman » Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:13 pm

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/cyprus/deputies-vow-block-cyprus-file-verdict/20101228

Surprise, surprise, surprise.

When the committee was first set up, he said, there was even a stipulation that the investigation would apportion both political and criminal responsibilities. However, the committee has since decided not to apportion any responsibility whatsoever.


Much the same as they threw a fit when it was suggested that Downer might 'apportion blame' for any lack of progress in the talks.

I am reminded of a line from an old rock 'n' roll song ...

... I ain't never done no wrong ...

:lol:
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Re: Deputies vow to block 'Cyprus file' verdict

Postby DT. » Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:23 pm

Gasman wrote:http://www.cyprus-mail.com/cyprus/deputies-vow-block-cyprus-file-verdict/20101228

Surprise, surprise, surprise.

When the committee was first set up, he said, there was even a stipulation that the investigation would apportion both political and criminal responsibilities. However, the committee has since decided not to apportion any responsibility whatsoever.


Much the same as they threw a fit when it was suggested that Downer might 'apportion blame' for any lack of progress in the talks.

I am reminded of a line from an old rock 'n' roll song ...

... I ain't never done no wrong ...

:lol:


It's a much more complicated issue than that and you would be wise to look up some more information before coming up with a one liner for amusement.

The committee will release the file with the committees conclusions attached to it. These conclusions show and name the officers and soldiers that had betrayed the nation before and during the invasion.

More importantly it names the senior officers involved in the mysterious evros meeting where turkey and the Greek junta decided on a joint enosis of Cyprus.

Most of these documents have already been leaked from the committee and their publication will shed light on a lot of events that some members of DISY would rather it wouldnt.
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Postby boulio » Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:42 pm

DT firstly welcome back,

secondly do you have anymore details concerning this secret meeting in evros with double enosis?specifics?

thirdly what do you think of were negotiations are heading and your feelings concerning the chapters and agreements that have been achieved thus far as well as disputes concerning propery.

again thanks in advance.
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Postby DT. » Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:56 pm

boulio wrote:DT firstly welcome back,

secondly do you have anymore details concerning this secret meeting in evros with double enosis?specifics?

thirdly what do you think of were negotiations are heading and your feelings concerning the chapters and agreements that have been achieved thus far as well as disputes concerning propery.

again thanks in advance.


Thanks for the welcome

Sizopoulos has the names of both the Greek and Turkish officers involved in that meeting plus the minutes of the agreement.

Finally personally I believe the talks are over, people like myself were lost with rotating presidency. My feeling is that the settler issue is our bargaining point and the least hurtful bargaining chip we can Offer. Problem is I don't think its that important to Turkey.

The only way he can bring this back for the GC vote is for a better than expected land distribution.
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Re: Deputies vow to block 'Cyprus file' verdict

Postby Get Real! » Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:02 pm

DT. wrote:It's a much more complicated issue than that and you would be wise to look up some more information before coming up with a one liner for amusement.

When your only concern 24/7 is “How can I get Oracle?” you end up with junk posts like this!

Gasfarts, should grow up and get a life! :roll:
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Postby boulio » Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:05 pm

thanks for the info concerning the governance chapter with the rotating president,i remember that along with the rotating presidency(which i dont like as well specially when its not proportianed correctly ie 5 year term and year for the t/c candidate insteasd i believe it 2 years in a 5 year rotation)i think the cross weighted voting and also believe the veto was also eliminated wase't it?i agree unless there is a large movement on land distribution like a 77-23 split i dont see a yes either.
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Postby Mikiko » Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:09 pm

The arguments that these DUSI members put forward is that since the Greek Government had refused access to the commitee investigating the events under question the final report documenting these events will not reflect the whole picture hence aportioning political or criminal resposibility will not be just . I thikn I disagree with this as only the involvement of these people to such serious crime no matter who was behind the scenes is serious enough to be punished .

But the intentions of Makarios after 1974 not to allocate any responisbility to the people involved in the coup had played a crucial part.
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Postby DT. » Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:13 pm

Mikiko wrote:The arguments that these DUSI members put forward is that since the Greek Government had refused access to the commitee investigating the events under question the final report documenting these events will not reflect the whole picture hence aportioning political or criminal resposibility will not be just . I thikn I disagree with this as only the involvement of these people to such serious crime no matter who was behind the scenes is serious enough to be punished .

But the intentions of Makarios after 1974 not to allocate any responisbility to the people involved in the coup had played a crucial part.


He had no choice, it was either grant immunity in the war torn country or face a civil war.
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Postby Bananiot » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:02 am

On many occasions I talked about the dangers of going after the desirable rather than the feasible. Such dangers existed before 1974 and the events of 1974 simply prove the political inadequacies of those insisting on maximalist lines. Makarios was such a person who pursued maximalist policies.

In 1968 he blew away the opportunity to solve the Cyprus issue when the TC's and Turkey accepted the 13 points he wanted to change in the Constitution for some mere local powers that would be granted to TC's. Again, in April 1971, Denktash sent a letter to Klerides, then President of the House of Representatives, accepting almost all 13 points and asking for the powers, duties and competences of the local government to be integrated into the Constitution. Makarios again gave a loud no.

Having failed to convince Makarios that under the circumstances the proposed solution, that Greece as well as Turkey accepted, was the best possible (imagine our joy if this proposal was put forward today), the governments of Greece and Turkey (both ruled by coupists) brought back the old Acheson Plan that among else gave a large base to Turkey in Karpasia, without movement of people. Makarios duly rejected this too, which of course was much worse than the 1967 and 1971 Denktash-Klerides agreements. This is what Makarios had to say, in rejecting the Acheson plan: "I disagree on this for the basis for establishing such ethnic criteria for the determination of the areas that will locally be governed by TC's, is a racist one and this can only divide further our divided state". I remind you that the same argument, more or less, is used today by the rejectionists in order to oppose BBF.

Makarios, it was pretty much obvious by then, was only interested in the total abandoning of the Zurich agreements that gave TC's certain prerogatives that he did not stomach. Makarios wanted the formation of a pure Greek State with the TC's reduced to a minority. He went beyond his proposals of 1963 and in a letter to Papadopoulos of Greece in June 1971 he states that the circumstances in 1963 were different from those of today. Thus, Makarios in effect admitted that the proposals of 1963 had nothing to do with the so called dysfunctional constitution but rather with eliminating the bicommunal nature of Cyprus.

Makarios thought that he was on the brink of success, for he believed that it was matter of time the TC's would succumb to economic difficulties and the hardships of the enclaves. He failed to consider the dangers that existed as long as the issue remained unsolved and eventually we all paid a hefty price. He failed to take into consideration all the factors that constituted the Cyprus issue and probably thought, being a priest, that a divine hand always protected Cyprus. Still, this is a poor excuse for Makarios that made a series of wrong and hurtful political judgements.

Will the report tomorrow reflect his political myopia? I very much doubt it. If the report has a sole aim to polarise society in view of the forthcoming elections, we have seen this act before. It remains to be seen whether voters will return once again to their political stables in order to save the day for the parties. You see, in this plantation, parties only count. Forget about Cyprus, as long as the parties get their share of votes.
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Postby DT. » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:07 am

The Acheson plan was basically rejected by makarios because he wished for a lease to be granted to turkey and her bases in karpasia and the Turks wanted a freehold. The Turks refused the 2nd Acheson plan as far as I remembered that the Americans and the greeks accepted.

Not judging whether he was right or not but if you're going to tell a story tell the whole story,
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