Cyprus-Forum.com

[Bananiot]

Well, as far as you remember, your ... wrong.

[Bananiot]

I suggest you read Nikos Kranidiotis, "To Kypriako Provlima" page 375.

[boulio]

no i think DT is right:

http://cyprus-conflict.net/acheson_plan.html

notice the small area the whole karpaz penisula and "small" areas for the t/c from northern nicosia thru the kyrania range.

and again makarios believed that the segragated municipalities that dektash wanted were legalized enclaves that you brush aside as "local"government was in fact kratos en karatoi.you do understand greek bananiot right?

[Bananiot]

I don't, especially if "kratos en karatoi" is considered to be Greek. But, in your haste you have missed the issue. Acheson 2 was proposed because Makarios rejected the agreement reached by Klerides/Denktash, both in 1967 and in 1971.

Like I said, those agreements were far better than Acheson 2, but this happens when you go for the maximium. Eventually you will get the bear minimum, and worse. Especially if you are a little minnow, a dot that needs a magnifying glass to be seen on the map.

The worrying think is that we never learn. We think we won a great battle in 2004 but in fact we missed a great chance for unification. The next plan willl be worse, as it happened after Makarios failed to see the significance of the Klerides/Denktash agreements.

[DT.]

Well, as far as you remember, your ... wrong.

I am not wrong, go read your facts and history. Acheson 1 required a separate administrative area for the tc's within a Turkish base that would be granted to Turkey in perpetuity. The tc's would also be governed by a central tc authority for those tc's that lived outside the Turkish area.

[boulio]

Acheson 2 was proposed because Makarios rejected the agreement reached by Klerides/Denktash, both in 1967 and in 1971.

im sorry but in your haste the acheson plans both 1 and 2 were offered in 1964 to papandreaou ,the agreements that dektash and clerides "reached" was in 1968-1971 period.Again i agree with DT go read the the ascheson versions and the letters between clerides and dektash and makarios repsone they are in the web site i posted.

[Bananiot]

You are talking utter nonsense, because you think the internet is a panacea. In fact, it is full of rubbish that non scholar persons cannot tell from reality. Books, bulio! In good books you can find all the answers you are after. Below you can find a limited preview of a book, written by Murat Metin Hakki, which contains only official documents and lets the reader make his own judgements. Your web site gives a minute fraction of the documents that Murat reveals. That is why you cannot see that the Acheson plan of 1964 was declined by Papandreou back then but after Makarios rejected both efforts by Klerides and Denktash (notice how they were on first name terms) to arrive at a bloody good solution, the juntas, in both Greece and Turkey, agreed to return to the Acheson plan, albeit, with some modifications since seven years had gone by and a lot of water had flown since then, meaning that you must not expect to get the exact thing you have rejected after some time passes.

http://books.google.com/books?id=mQ2822 ... us&f=false

Good reading!

Before the usual suspects start accusing me of giving credence to a Turk, read the following:

http://us.macmillan.com/thecyprusissue

[boulio]

1)the acheson plans were offered in 1964
2)the greek goverment rejected the first plan
3)clerides and dektash coresponded in 1968-1971with the consent and final approval of the junta to accept the comprimises.

the acheson plan was never brought back,not that i see at least,

[B25]

I read the first sentence of the Arxidia Plan and stopped as it was just bollocks.

Thus: " ....In retrun for Turkish agreement for the Union of Cyprus with Greece..."

Well, that just says it all, WTF has Turkey got to do with what Cyprus and its people want to do? The reason we have the CP is BECAUSE of Turkey wanting in on the Island and nothing to do with the TCs.

Since the 50's Turkey has been making it impossible for a free and democratic Cyprus and no amount of foreign plans is going to put it right.

The Cypriot people have a RIGHT to do as they wish in their OWN country, a sovereign Cyprus.

The bigger powers should just FO and leave us in peace.

Arxidia Plan my arse.

Annan Plan my arse

Any Plan my arse.

Simples.

[Bananiot]

You haven't done your homework bulio, try again.

For me, what is of utmost importance is the political lessons that we should be learning from past events, What stands out in this case, is that every time we rejected something (remember, since 1956 we rejected 14 plans) the next plan that was proposed was by far worse than the previous one. There is only one way to reverse this, utter and total military victory. This may linger in the brains of Piratis and GR but for those of us who still have an ounce of brain in our skull, this could never happen and if we wait until the balance changes, by that time there will be no problem to solve.