Cyprus-Forum.com

[Oracle]

You use such a simplistic way to explain a complicated issue that ... blah blah blah ....

That might be because he doesn't obfuscate with half truths, as do you.

[BirKibrisli]

You use such a simplistic way to explain a complicated issue that ... blah blah blah ....

That might be because he doesn't obfuscate with half truths, as do you.

Go on Oracle,tell Bananiot the whole complicated truth...The GCs are all right the TCs are all wrong...The only problem with Cyprus is the presence of 40,000 Turkish troops,and once they are gone all will be well...It is all very clear and simple,is it not???

[EPSILON]

You use such a simplistic way to explain a complicated issue that ... blah blah blah ....

That might be because he doesn't obfuscate with half truths, as do you.

Go on Oracle,tell Bananiot the whole complicated truth...The GCs are all right the TCs are all wrong...The only problem with Cyprus is the presence of 40,000 Turkish troops,and once they are gone all will be well...It is all very clear and simple,is it not???

SO SIMPLE


Ά - Πολον Πασιφαές Ον,
Φαεινόν Παν Θεατόν.
Ουρανία Ισχύς Ασβέστου Πυρός,
Νοημόνου,
Ι-ΔΙΟ-Φύεται.

Αέναος τε και Ακατάπαυστος Κίνησις,
Κλεις Μυστηρίων,
Φάους Ηελιοίου το Καταύγασμα.

Φαόνιος Ρους ες Άπασαν Γαίαν
Προς Ενσωμάτωσιν Όντων
Ες ΠυρόΦως.
Δυνάμεων Διός.
Υψίστου.
Άνακτος.


[/url][/quote]

[EPSILON]

[Piratis]

Piratis, you have built a wall around yourself, a wall of make-believe facts that have nothing to do with reality. You use such a simplistic way to explain a complicated issue that I find it difficult to even contemplate to argue something in a serious manner with you. However, can you please give me your answer to the following:

In 1963 Makarios paid a state visit to Ankara. The Turks rolled a red carpet for him and later, during the official meetings, Inonu told him: "Your beautitude, please think again about the 13 points you want to change, you could cause undue unrest if you went ahead with this".

If Piratis's cynicism is correct, I would have expected Inonu to have encouraged him to go along with his idea and on top, encourage him to created paramilitary armed groups in order to force the changes down the throat of anyone trying to resist.

Bananiot, if you had a grain of brain you would understand that the comment of Inonu "Your beautitude, please think again about the 13 points you want to change, you could cause undue unrest if you went ahead with this" is nothing less than a threat.

Which is exactly what I said, when I said that the actions of TCs in 1963 can be translated to: "Either you give to us every single gain that was granted to us on your expense by the foreign Imperialists, or else we will withdraw from the government, restart the conflict and give an excuse to Turkey to invade and partition Cyprus".

It is clear that Turkey and TCs wanted to keep all the racist Ottoman style gains that were granted to them on our expense in 1960, and that if we even dared to propose changes they would cause unrest and use that as an excuse for Turkey to invade.

The comment of Inonu proves that the unrest was a planned and an already agreed reaction between Turkey and the TC leadership.

[Get Real!]

In 1963 Makarios paid a state visit to Ankara. The Turks rolled a red carpet for him and later, during the official meetings, Inonu told him: "Your beautitude, please think again about the 13 points you want to change, you could cause undue unrest if you went ahead with this".

Makarios' visit to Ankara took place in November 1962 when the "13 points" proposal did not yet exist for another whole year (Nov 63)!

Therefore, Inonu could’ve never said that!

[Bananiot]

You got me here GR ... how do I get out of this predicament? GR it seems you understand very little of the recent history of Cyprus and on top you make worse political judgements than Piratis. If I were you I wouldn't bother to read on, the rest is not intended for you.

According to Nikos Kranidiotis (Anoxiroti Politeia, Vol. A' p. 34) as early as 1961 Giorgadjis, Sampson and Lissarides set up and organised armed groups of paramilitarists. Giorgadjis's group was called EOK (National Organisation of Cyprus). Sampson's men were known as red berets and Lissarides's men, green berets. As early as January 1961, Makarios started talking about the need to change the Constitution while Giorgadjis openly called for the realisation of our aspirations (enosis). Makarios gave the TC nationalists plenty of food for thought, and action, unfortunately. Speaking at OHEN in Nicosia, on January 4 1962 he said: "I am compelled to ignore or ask for changes to those constitution articles that impede the functioning of the state and can cause problems when they are badly implementated by the TC minority".

Unfortunately, we never stopped for a minute considering the TC as a mere minority.

In Ankara, on 22 November 1962, Makarios was welcome as the Head of State. He flew from Nicosia aboard the private plane of the Turkish President Gurcel. He was met at Ankara airport by the President of Turkey and all the official state hierarchy. Twenty one cannon shots were fired in his honour. TC students organised a demonstration at Ankara Airport holding placards that read: "Implement the London-Zurich agreements" and "Peace through the implementation of the London-Zurich agreements". According to Reuters, agreements were reached to implement the constitution and the Turkish press condemned the students demo.

Of course, politics (especially in this part of the world) is not that simple. Here is when political acuteness is required in order to try to understand events. It is fairly obvious now (even oracle can understand this) that Makarios embarked on his visit to turkey in order to poke the Turks about the possibility of changing the Constitution. The Turks, told and showed Makarios that they would never agree to such changes and that Turkey would make sure that the Constitution was fully implemented. Glafkos Klerides, in his "Deposition" Vol. A' p. 162, writes that "Makarios met with the strong refusal of Turkey to agree to the idea of constitutional changes when he told Inonu of his thoughts". Kranidiotis also mentions that the Turks knew only too well of the setting up of the GC paramilitary groups and Cemal Erkin, Foreign Minister, demanded strongly the dismantling of these groups.

[boulio]

According to Nikos Kranidiotis (Anoxiroti Politeia, Vol. A' p. 34)

more books with misinformation,Bananoit just retract your statement and say you were wrong .

[Bananiot]

Bulio, wake up. Kranidiotis has never been questioned by anyone here, left, centre or right, in Cyprus. He was very respected. I have not read a single book on the Cyp issue where he is not quoted.

I was playing a game, for the benefit of GR, when I wrote that GR got me, surely you could see that.

[Get Real!]

You got me here GR ... how do I get out of this predicament?

You could just tell me I'm stupid... it worked the last time!

GR it seems you understand very little of the recent history of Cyprus and on top you make worse political judgements than Piratis. If I were you I wouldn't bother to read on, the rest is not intended for you.

See? It works every time!