Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

Yes the TRNC is very original unique and beautiful unspoilt unlike.....

Turkish idiot, with an IQ of a dandelion…

How can this territory be “unspoilt” if its indigenous population has been ethnically cleansed and missing?

[Viewpoint]

Yes the TRNC is very original unique and beautiful unspoilt unlike.....

Turkish idiot, with an IQ of a dandelion…

How can this territory be “unspoilt” if its indigenous population has been ethnically cleansed and missing?

We are talking about the natural beauty of the north you moron not the ugly GCs.

[denizaksulu]

Yes the TRNC is very original unique and beautiful unspoilt unlike.....

Turkish idiot, with an IQ of a dandelion…

How can this territory be “unspoilt” if its indigenous population has been ethnically cleansed and missing?

We are talking about the natural beauty of the north you moron not the ugly GCs.

The natural beauty? You can see the damage done to its natural beauty of north Cyprus with Google earth. Even the trees have been 'ethnicly cleansed'.

[Viewpoint]

Yes the TRNC is very original unique and beautiful unspoilt unlike.....

Turkish idiot, with an IQ of a dandelion…

How can this territory be “unspoilt” if its indigenous population has been ethnically cleansed and missing?

We are talking about the natural beauty of the north you moron not the ugly GCs.

The natural beauty? You can see the damage done to its natural beauty of north Cyprus with Google earth. Even the trees have been 'ethnicly cleansed'.

The TRNC is beautiful.

[denizaksulu]

Yes the TRNC is very original unique and beautiful unspoilt unlike.....

Turkish idiot, with an IQ of a dandelion…

How can this territory be “unspoilt” if its indigenous population has been ethnically cleansed and missing?

We are talking about the natural beauty of the north you moron not the ugly GCs.

The natural beauty? You can see the damage done to its natural beauty of north Cyprus with Google earth. Even the trees have been 'ethnicly cleansed'.

The TRNC is beautiful.

All of Cyprus is beautiful - just.

[Get Real!]

Yes the TRNC is very original unique and beautiful unspoilt unlike.....

Turkish idiot, with an IQ of a dandelion…

How can this territory be “unspoilt” if its indigenous population has been ethnically cleansed and missing?

We are talking about the natural beauty of the north you moron not the ugly GCs.

The indigenous population with its 10,000 year history WAS the natural beauty of the territory you short sighted nincompoop!

[repulsewarrior]

...a toponomy which has been changed in it's entirety (by the Army of a foreign country).

..."flags" which can be seen from space.

...a demographic which eliminates any chance for Turcophones who are Cypriot to sustain an identity.

...a Heritance older than Turkey itself and important to all Mankind, left to ruin, or turned to discos, restaurants, and casinos.

...more soldiers and less free movement than north Korea.

natural beauty; to each his own, vp...

[ZoC]

...a toponomy which has been changed in it's entirety (by the Army of a foreign country).

..."flags" which can be seen from space.

...a demographic which eliminates any chance for Turcophones who are Cypriot to sustain an identity.

...a Heritance older than Turkey itself and important to all Mankind, left to ruin, or turned to discos, restaurants, and casinos.

...more soldiers and less free movement than north Korea.

natural beauty; to each his own, vp...

i got an idea for who the next 'crapos premium hotel & casino' hollywood celebrity should be... wot d'u say, vp?

[Afroasiatis]

Hello again.

It's nice to discuss the little nuances of understanding we each have about the basis of our humanity, in such a friendly manner.

You're correct that the phenotype is the outward manifestation of the genotype; but the genetic differences which lead to quite dramatic phenotypic variations are actually quite small. Maybe one base change in the DNA of a gene could affect its activity profoundly. The point I was trying to make is that these subtle genetic variations are too minuscule to be used to classify people into different types (races). Besides, we all possess the same genes (+/- sex chromosomes) with equal chances of mutations or recombination to yield our endless differences in phenotypes. Some, quite alarmingly, different to our parents. So, we are not different races because of these genetic differences which become visible under different environmental cues.

As for the other points, we mostly agree. No culture is untouched by others, and nearest-neighbours tend to swap and learn from each other. With 70 Million people in Turkey, we know there are many cultural groups which have been absorbed by the recent conquerors, over the last few centuries, and the marker-analyses gaining popularity for tracking migrations will soon reveal our mysteries, since DNA has a good memory.

I also think it's good we can speak about these issues in friendly manner.

To what you say up to here, I don't disagree, as far as I understand it correctly. So I'll move directly to the last part:

However, the cultural differences which are poignant in the Cyprus Problem are a little more embedded, in my opinion, than simply liking the sound of similar musical instruments and such type. I do suspect that there is a wide cultural divide which is memetically passed down the generations alongside various traditions and expectations. It's probably responsible for the success the 'Turkic tribes' have had in usurping, colonising and replacing natives who, otherwise, had for thousands of years settled into territorial co-operation. It's being exercised right now in some of the unhealthy beliefs we see manifested in arguments for holding on to the occupied north; what most civilized people consider as not rightfully theirs (Turk-TCs) to keep. This theft is supported and reinforced as normal from Turkish-state level. These unhealthy memes are being used to keep people separate from each other - with the excuse that we are different races - perpetuated by that popular nugget we see resurfacing every few months, here on CF, that "GCs and TCs" are more 'genetically similar' than they are to "Turks" and "Greeks". What racist tosh. It is in fact the cultural norms of these people which are more different than their respective genes. The phenotype!

I can't say I see much of cultural differences playing a role in the Cyprus problem - except to the extent they define group identities (i.e. I belong to the "Christians" or to "Muslims", to "Greeks" or to the "Turks"). But generally, I think many things in our lifes, even the way TCs and GCs view the Cyprus problem, are shaped through similar mentalities, which are based on common culture.

As for the success of the Turkish tribes, was their behavior really that different to other tribes which had come earlier in our region, like the greek tribes, the slavic tribes, the semitic tribes etc? Didn't they also often use, as newcomers, violence in order to subjugate the indigenous populations? And did the natives really live in territorial co-operation before the arrival of Turks? There were plenty of wars between Byzantines, Arabs, Persians, Latins, Slavs.

But let's move more into the part mostly relevant to the Cyprus question. You correctly point out to the way the theft of north cypriot land (and I would add, also the ethnic cleansing of GCs from there) "is supported and reinforced as normal from Turkish-state level". But is this really to be explained through cultural differences? Don't the Israelis do the same with Palestine, and even in much greater scale? Isn't a similar situation in Abkhazia? Would that mean that Jews, Turks/TCs, and Russians/Abkhazians have cultural similarities to each other which make them different to Arabs, Greeks/ GCs and Georgians?

About the most ridiculous thing ive read on this forum. You can not compare the Cyprus issue with any of the above. Each is unique...for example.... Abkhazia is a region with a rich and ancient history where as there never was an existence of a so called "trnc". Nice try.

Each case is unique, and they all have an important similarity: that the ethnic group claiming to own the country was a minority, the biggest ethnic group was another one, and this could only be changed through means of ethnic cleansing. This is common in TRNC, Israel, and Abkhazia. Rich and ancient histories are irrelevant to this.

[Afroasiatis]

Not at all. There is no pertinent 'common culture' between TCs and GCs. The GCs have a long heritage of craft manufacture, long-established trades, education, even ideology honed for thousands of years with the help of an excellent written tradition.

The TCs are from nomadic tribal stocks; restless, aggressive and prone to moral ignorance.

We see this today, manifested as the Cyprus Problem!

I believe the common culture between GCs and TCs and their similar mentalities is a relatively obvious thing. This doesn't mean there are no differences. But the daily lifes, the values of the average GC and TC were very similar until some decades ago, and even today after a decades of separation they keep many similarities.

Only a part of TCs have relatively recent origins from "nomadic tribal stocks" - but even they abandoned nomadism and tribalism centuries ago for this to mean much today. A big part of TC origins goes to Orthodox and perhaps especially Catholic Cypriots, which converted to Islam.

As for aggressiveness or moral ignorance, I can't say I noticed more among TCs than among GCs.

The Cyprus Problem is, in my opinion, a problem coming out of rising nationalisms, not very different to other problems which were part or have followed from the greater Eastern Question.