Cyprus-Forum.com

[lovernomore]

Sensible argument will cut no ice with some people,Deniz yegen...

You will just have to accept that once the Greeks touch anything,it will remaing Greek from there to eternity,no matter how and where and for how long history has marched on...It is by divine right..They are the chosen people...Hang on,that was the Jews,werent' they??? Oh,what the hell they can fight it out amongst themselves...We just have to bow to their eternal divine right to own all things they come in contact with...

Bir Gardash Fascist, rascist ELAM organization was in the streets of the Larnaca (last night). They were carring huge Greek flags and Symbols of the EOKA and shouting out '' Cyprus is Greek ''................ Talks are goes on under the shadows of these black dressed fascist organisation.... They are getting great support from the Church..... And we are hoping future of the Cyprus Gardash........... What future we can have with these lots...


here is the proved for you .................

Although I don't agree with this mob, (I come from the "Cyprus is Cypriot" camp), these "boys" are carrying out what appears to be a peaceful protest.

On the other hand, Turkey has perpetrated the actual cultural destruction of the north and has altered the demographics of the north by importing hundreds of thousands of mainland Turks.

Which is worse?

Peaceful protest or the actual acts of ethnic cleansing?

So MrEd, as long as its a peaceful protest then its fine? How about all Cypriot paedophiles carrying out a "peaceful protest" next?

Would it be better if those pedophiles were raping your children instead?

Even if those people said that they want to ethnically cleanse all TCs from Cyprus (and i doubt they supported this or anything else which is a crime - Cyprus can be Greek without violating a singe human right of the TC minority, therefore your comparison with pedophiles is not correct) there is still a huge difference between saying something and actually doing it.

CYPRUS WAS NEVER GREEK NOR WILL IT EVER BE. If you disagree with this then you are MAD and should be locked up.

lovernomore, if you noticed I almost never respond to your posts. Thats is because your IQ is so low that usually I can't even be bothered to waste my time with the nonsense that you say.

At least I don't keep repeating myself over and over again like you do. You have thousands of posts, put them altogether and they add up to no more than 10 individual posts, its the same shit over and over.

you are racist, fascist piece of shit. Its people like you that make me think all Greeks are bastards and the only solution is division of the island.

[Piratis]

you are racist, fascist piece of shit. Its people like you that make me think all Greeks are bastards and the only solution is division of the island.

:lol::lol::lol:

[lovernomore]

you are racist, fascist piece of shit. Its people like you that make me think all Greeks are bastards and the only solution is division of the island.

:lol::lol::lol:

I really should be a bit softer with you, after all, you're probably more Turkish than I am. Our Ottoman forefathers couldn't keep their dicks in their pants and there is no doubt your great great grandmothers would have all been laid by them. So it is fair to say all Greeks are bastardised Turks/Ottomans.

[denizaksulu]

you are racist, fascist piece of shit. Its people like you that make me think all Greeks are bastards and the only solution is division of the island.

:lol::lol::lol:

I really should be a bit softer with you, after all, you're probably more Turkish than I am. Our Ottoman forefathers couldn't keep their dicks in their pants and there is no doubt your great great grandmothers would have all been laid by them. So it is fair to say all Greeks are bastardised Turks/Ottomans.

No doubt that Cyprus has for eons has been a ginourmous 'sperm-bank', but to deny that Cyprus did in fact have a Greco-Byzantine character is a folly on a grand-scale. In fact my brother -in-law from Gallinoporni/Kaleburnu did his thesis on the Byzantine churches of Cyprus which littered the whole island, whilst studying for his degree in architecture. Never ruled by Greece as such, but facts are facts. There may be less of these churches now, but only due to the destructive forces of the occupations it has suffered.

[ZoC]

you are racist, fascist piece of shit. Its people like you that make me think all Greeks are bastards and the only solution is division of the island.

:lol::lol::lol:

I really should be a bit softer with you, after all, you're probably more Turkish than I am. Our Ottoman forefathers couldn't keep their dicks in their pants and there is no doubt your great great grandmothers would have all been laid by them. So it is fair to say all Greeks are bastardised Turks/Ottomans.

the only bastardised cypriots are the ones prepared to deny their island's many-thousand-year-old history, culture and belief-system for the sake of an easy life and to pay less taxes. the rest are pure thoroughbreds, in their principles, if not their genetic make up.

[Afroasiatis]

EU is a union of separate independent countries, it is not a country itself. Cyprus is a country and what we should have in Cyprus is what they have in every other EU country.

Did you really think that a united Cyprus means to brake up Cyprus into two separate independent countries which would then voluntarily be associated with each other in the same way that Portugal and Latvia are associated within EU??

Piratis, this argument (Cyprus is a country, EU isn't) was already used again and again in this thread. It gets boring to me to repeat that I don't care about the legalist aspect of the question, but the practical. EU-countries may be nominally independent, but practically, many if not most of the decisions are taken on an EU-level - and you know with what kind of procedures. You either are against or for these principles - you can't say, I only want them to be applied when it's suitable to me.

By the way, if you think that in every EU-country the principle "one man, one vote" applies 100% at least at the national level, you're not right. I don't know how this is in other countries, but e.g. in Germany, which is a federation, many of the decision have to go through Bundesrat (the Federal Council). Each state is represented there with a number of votes which, again, favors the small states, i.e. the principle "one man, one vote" is violated. You can have a look here, what does this mean exactly for representation of population:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundesrat_of_Germany


As to what I think that a united Cyprus means, I don't want to go into this, because it's another very long subject - actually, it's more of a philosophical question. For the moment, I'm just speaking about democratic principles and how's in Europe with this.

It is not complicated at all. The Turks are only illegally occupying what belongs to us by over 80%.

Well, and practically everybody with power in the world, including the RoC government, accepts that the major part of what Turkey occupies will be in the future under TC administration. So, it's not as simple as you present it.

Being a "community" doesn't mean they are not also a minority. They are only the 18% and therefore a minority. Any gains that they received on our expense by collaborating with foreign Imperialists is part of the Cyprus Problem which needs to be resolved with any such gains removed from them.

Your last sentence expresses just a wish, as I understand.

As to if they are a community or a community and minority at the same time, it's more of a game with words, without real meaning. What matters is that they are practically recognized as one of the two consituent communities: similar to the Flemish and Walloons in Belgium, Muslims/Serbs/Croats in Bosnia etc. They aren't a simple minority: that's the difference to Kurds in Turkey (to go back to what Me Ed has mentioned), no matter how we would like it to be ideally.

[Afroasiatis]

you are racist, fascist piece of shit. Its people like you that make me think all Greeks are bastards and the only solution is division of the island.

:lol::lol::lol:

I really should be a bit softer with you, after all, you're probably more Turkish than I am. Our Ottoman forefathers couldn't keep their dicks in their pants and there is no doubt your great great grandmothers would have all been laid by them. So it is fair to say all Greeks are bastardised Turks/Ottomans.

GCs are for sure anything but purely greek, both culturally and genetically.

But Turks are even less a good example of a "pure race", since they are mainly the descendants of various indigenous people of Asia Minor and the Balkans, who converted to Islam - among them many Greeks. Actually, these "bastardized" children of Turkish/Ottoman men and Christian women, which you mentioned, were usually supposed to become Muslim, so it's by far more possible that you are the descendant of them than Greeks or GCs.

I think there were also surveys which showed that the genetic diversity is greater among Turks - and of course this is nothing to be shamed of, on the contrary.

[Oracle]

you are racist, fascist piece of shit. Its people like you that make me think all Greeks are bastards and the only solution is division of the island.

:lol::lol::lol:

I really should be a bit softer with you, after all, you're probably more Turkish than I am. Our Ottoman forefathers couldn't keep their dicks in their pants and there is no doubt your great great grandmothers would have all been laid by them. So it is fair to say all Greeks are bastardised Turks/Ottomans.

GCs are for sure anything but purely greek, both culturally and genetically.

But Turks are even less a good example of a "pure race", since they are mainly the descendants of various indigenous people of Asia Minor and the Balkans, who converted to Islam - among them many Greeks. Actually, these "bastardized" children of Turkish/Ottoman men and Christian women, which you mentioned, were usually supposed to become Muslim, so it's by far more possible that you are the descendant of them than Greeks or GCs.

I think there were also surveys which showed that the genetic diversity is greater among Turks - and of course this is nothing to be shamed of, on the contrary.

There are certain groups in Turkey which have been there thousands of years. Some have Greek descent- although most of those were ethnically cleansed in the 1920s. The Kurds of course make a big part of Turkey (25%?). But of those others, there is more and more evidence to show they have moved over from the East.

For example, the Mongolian (blue/yellow) Spot ...

.....

Although rare among Europeans, its occurrence has been reported in Hungary, Bulgaria (Wateff cases, the spot is interpreted today as resulting from the invasions by Mongols and by other nomadic groups such as the Huns. Hungarians in particular trace their origins to the Huns and to the figure of Attila. The blue spot allegedly occurs in a third of Hungarians births (Kiszély, Gladkova & Tóth 1983).

........

This rate is similar in Izmir, and higher amongst the brunette population.


........


Turk J Pediatr. 2006 Jul-Sep;48(3):232-6.

Frequency and characteristics of mongolian spots among Turkish children in Aegean region.

Egemen A, Ikizoğlu T, Ergör S, Mete Asar G, Yilmaz O.

Departments of Pediatrics, Ege University Faculty of Medicine, Izmir, Turkey.
Abstract
Mongolian spots, which are benign congenital lesions observed in the first years of life, can cause distress for parents due to aberrant localization as well as unexpected number and size. Therefore, efficient differential diagnosis is necessary. The aim of this study was to determine the frequency and characteristics of mongolian spots in 1-12-month-old children in a west Anatolian city and to evaluate parental approach to these lesions. The study included 924 children who presented to Ege University Hospital Healthy Child Outpatient Department between January and August 2003. A questionnaire was applied to the families while all children were examined scrupulously for the presence of mongolian spots. The frequency of these lesions in the study population was determined to be 26%; this rate was 20% and 31% in boys and girls, respectively. No lesion was detected in blond-haired children; however, it was detected in 47% of brunettes. Most common localizations were lumbosacral, gluteal, and back, though knee, scalp and feet were also encountered. Upon questioning, most parents stated it was a birth mark; however, 10% accepted to consult a doctor about the issue. In conclusion, identifying mongolian spots and informing parents are essential to strengthen the family-doctor relationship.

Among Chinese children, these lesions were reported to be present in 58% of boys and 53.3% of girls, while the most common localizations were sacrococcygeal, gluteal and lumbar, in order of frequency. Colors were observed to vary from gray-blue to grayblack[14]. In the present study, most commonly encountered colors of mongolian spots were blue-purple (58.8%) followed by blue-gray (34.2%). Distribution of colors might be attributed to the difference in skin color between Chinese and Turkish children.

.......


I can't find any research relating to the frequency of the Mongol Spot in Kurds. The suggestion is that Kurds are more of Arab ancestry. If these studies were repeated removing the known Kurds from the rest of the Turkish samples, the incidence of the Mongol spot would probably be much higher.

So it seems, a very high proportion of the (non-Kurd) Turkish population is indeed of Asian descent.

[Afroasiatis]

you are racist, fascist piece of shit. Its people like you that make me think all Greeks are bastards and the only solution is division of the island.

:lol::lol::lol:

I really should be a bit softer with you, after all, you're probably more Turkish than I am. Our Ottoman forefathers couldn't keep their dicks in their pants and there is no doubt your great great grandmothers would have all been laid by them. So it is fair to say all Greeks are bastardised Turks/Ottomans.

GCs are for sure anything but purely greek, both culturally and genetically.

But Turks are even less a good example of a "pure race", since they are mainly the descendants of various indigenous people of Asia Minor and the Balkans, who converted to Islam - among them many Greeks. Actually, these "bastardized" children of Turkish/Ottoman men and Christian women, which you mentioned, were usually supposed to become Muslim, so it's by far more possible that you are the descendant of them than Greeks or GCs.

I think there were also surveys which showed that the genetic diversity is greater among Turks - and of course this is nothing to be shamed of, on the contrary.

There are certain groups in Turkey which have been there thousands of years. Some have Greek descent- although most of those were ethnically cleansed in the 1920s. The Kurds of course make a big part of Turkey (25%?). But of those others, there is more and more evidence to show they have moved over from the East.

For example, the Mongolian (blue/yellow) Spot ...

.....

Although rare among Europeans, its occurrence has been reported in Hungary, Bulgaria (Wateff cases, the spot is interpreted today as resulting from the invasions by Mongols and by other nomadic groups such as the Huns. Hungarians in particular trace their origins to the Huns and to the figure of Attila. The blue spot allegedly occurs in a third of Hungarians births (Kiszély, Gladkova & Tóth 1983).

........

This rate is similar in Izmir, and higher amongst the brunette population.


........


Turk J Pediatr. 2006 Jul-Sep;48(3):232-6.

Frequency and characteristics of mongolian spots among Turkish children in Aegean region.

Egemen A, Ikizoğlu T, Ergör S, Mete Asar G, Yilmaz O.

Departments of Pediatrics, Ege University Faculty of Medicine, Izmir, Turkey.
Abstract
Mongolian spots, which are benign congenital lesions observed in the first years of life, can cause distress for parents due to aberrant localization as well as unexpected number and size. Therefore, efficient differential diagnosis is necessary. The aim of this study was to determine the frequency and characteristics of mongolian spots in 1-12-month-old children in a west Anatolian city and to evaluate parental approach to these lesions. The study included 924 children who presented to Ege University Hospital Healthy Child Outpatient Department between January and August 2003. A questionnaire was applied to the families while all children were examined scrupulously for the presence of mongolian spots. The frequency of these lesions in the study population was determined to be 26%; this rate was 20% and 31% in boys and girls, respectively. No lesion was detected in blond-haired children; however, it was detected in 47% of brunettes. Most common localizations were lumbosacral, gluteal, and back, though knee, scalp and feet were also encountered. Upon questioning, most parents stated it was a birth mark; however, 10% accepted to consult a doctor about the issue. In conclusion, identifying mongolian spots and informing parents are essential to strengthen the family-doctor relationship.

Among Chinese children, these lesions were reported to be present in 58% of boys and 53.3% of girls, while the most common localizations were sacrococcygeal, gluteal and lumbar, in order of frequency. Colors were observed to vary from gray-blue to grayblack[14]. In the present study, most commonly encountered colors of mongolian spots were blue-purple (58.8%) followed by blue-gray (34.2%). Distribution of colors might be attributed to the difference in skin color between Chinese and Turkish children.

.......


I can't find any research relating to the frequency of the Mongol Spot in Kurds. The suggestion is that Kurds are more of Arab ancestry. If these studies were repeated removing the known Kurds from the rest of the Turkish samples, the incidence of the Mongol spot would probably be much higher.

So it seems, a very high proportion of the (non-Kurd) Turkish population is indeed of Asian descent.

Nobody said that there are no Mongolian genetic traces at all. It's reasonable to expect that there are more such traces in the European countries which had been dominated by non-indogermanic tribes, like Turkey, Bulgaria, Hungary or Finnland.

However, I can't see how that proves that the Mongolian-Asian origin is stronger among Turks than the Anatolian-Balkan one. I thought it would only be some ultra-nationalist Turks who would claim something like that.

[Lit]

EU is a union of separate independent countries, it is not a country itself. Cyprus is a country and what we should have in Cyprus is what they have in every other EU country.

Did you really think that a united Cyprus means to brake up Cyprus into two separate independent countries which would then voluntarily be associated with each other in the same way that Portugal and Latvia are associated within EU??

Piratis, this argument (Cyprus is a country, EU isn't) was already used again and again in this thread. It gets boring to me to repeat that I don't care about the legalist aspect of the question, but the practical. EU-countries may be nominally independent, but practically, many if not most of the decisions are taken on an EU-level - and you know with what kind of procedures. You either are against or for these principles - you can't say, I only want them to be applied when it's suitable to me.

By the way, if you think that in every EU-country the principle "one man, one vote" applies 100% at least at the national level, you're not right. I don't know how this is in other countries, but e.g. in Germany, which is a federation, many of the decision have to go through Bundesrat (the Federal Council). Each state is represented there with a number of votes which, again, favors the small states, i.e. the principle "one man, one vote" is violated. You can have a look here, what does this mean exactly for representation of population:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundesrat_of_Germany


As to what I think that a united Cyprus means, I don't want to go into this, because it's another very long subject - actually, it's more of a philosophical question. For the moment, I'm just speaking about democratic principles and how's in Europe with this.

You do not want to discuss what a united Cyprus means but point to Germany as an example of what exactly? How "one man, one vote" is so called violated? I can also point to the United States where the President isnt really elected by popular vote but by an Electoral College where the over-representation of small US States have changed the results of at least 3 presidential elections. But my friend, would any of these be acceptable to our TC brothers? Would they really accept a solution whereby the Greek Cypriots are free to live, work and move where ever they please in their own united country? Of course not....and that is why you do not want to go into the specifics of what a UNited Cyprus means to you because it would indeed be very undemocratic and you wouldnt be able to point to Germany as a reference. Any solution for a TC approval would need Turkey to be a guarantor power. Permanent derogations keeping GCs away from the north. A demilitarized Cyprus. A rotating Presidency. The ability for this northern state to be able to secede if it so chooses but still be able to share in the wealth of the south. I can go on and on with these silly TC demands. That is not a solution but a crime against the the RoC.