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The Greeks and the Turks or is it the Turks and the Greeks

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Postby Ethem » Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:00 am

lola-tulip wrote:
Ethem wrote:They didn't commit genocides...from what I know Greece were the ones who invaded western anatolia and thrace with the backing of british prime minister Lloyd George, and the Turks fought back and took back what Greece tried to take by force


Seems you know very little :)

What was it that the Turks "took back"?

For example; places such as:

GREEK COLONIES ON THE ANATOLIAN COASTS, C. 1180–547 BC

Before the Greek migrations that followed the end of the Bronze Age (c. 1200 bc), probably the only Greek-speaking communities on the west coast of Anatolia were Mycenaean settlements at Iasus and Müskebi on the Halicarnassus peninsula and walled Mycenaean colonies at Miletus and Colophon. The major Greek settlement of Anatolia’s west coast belongs to the Dark Age (c. 1200–c. 1000). In contrast to the at best sporadic colonization of the Mycenaean period, this movement has all the characteristics of a migratio
n.


Encyclopedia Britannica

[As for your denial of the Genocides; you are, thankfully, in the minority.]


They took back western anatolia which Greek forces invaded, Ottoman lands...if you want to go back hundreds or even thousands of years of years then everybody should just piss off back to africa so the indigenous animals and flora can have their land lol
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Re: The Greeks and the Turks or is it the Turks and the Gree

Postby ZoC » Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:04 am

halil wrote:CHARLOTTE MCPHERSON
[email protected]

More often than not, many of us are under the impression that Turks and Greeks are always at odds with one another. This is not always necessarily so.

The İstanbul 2010 European Capital of Culture Agency recently announced that Turkey’s first population exchange museum will be opening on Dec. 18 at Kaleiçi in İstanbul’s Çatalça district. This will be the first museum of its kind in Turkey.

Are you wondering how this came about? You see, when the Ottoman Empire fell apart after World War I, the victorious allies decided to grant all of Thrace to Greece. In the summer of 1920 Greek armies occupied Edirne and parts of western Turkey. Unwilling to accept this situation, Turkish military general Atatürk launched a counter offensive in the War of Independence.

Atatürk’s republican armies were victorious. The Treaty of Lausanne, signed in 1923, left Edirne and eastern Thrace to the Turks. In fact, it confirmed Turkey’s lands in Anatolia and removed the obligation to pay reparations. The fate of the minority populations, as you can well imagine, was a major element. The treaty opened the way for a large population exchange, with many hundreds of thousands of Greeks leaving Turkey and a smaller number of Turks leaving Greece, and secured the rights of minorities who stayed in Turkey.

The minorities are primarily concentrated in the northern regions that were historically inhabited by mixed populations and were subjected to many foreign invasions. Just as you can find Greeks living in certain parts of Turkey, mostly in Thrace and fewer along the Aegean coast, across the border you can find Turks living in the northern part of Greece. It may come as a surprise to some readers, but Turks are the largest minority group in Greece. The Turkish population in Greece during Ottoman rule was not large; it comprised mostly government officials, soldiers and farm land owners. Atatürk himself came from Thessaloniki, now in Greece but at the time he was born it was part of the Ottoman Empire.

The population exchange museum is housed in a Greek home built in 1913 and seeks to familiarize current and future generations with the different ways of life people enjoyed before and after the exchange of populations.

Perhaps you have traveled by bus to Greece. If so, you would have noticed that the bus from İstanbul to Thessaloniki is full of Turks and Greeks. Greeks have relatives still living in Turkey and Turks have relatives living in Greece. Both Turks and Greeks had to move from their homelands, and when doing so, took their own culture with them.

Perhaps there is not as much enmity between the two nationalities as some would like to have you think.

Ancient Hellenistic influence in the Mediterranean was no doubt a powerful and influential one and should not be underestimated. Mediterranean cuisine is delicious -- but whose is it? I remember visiting Alexandropolis years ago and causing grave offense when I made the passing comment to a Greek restaurant waiter that Greek food reminded me of Turkish cuisine. That appeared to be a sore spot. From then on I was careful what I said as it became obvious that Greek culinary nationalism was strong. It is interesting, though, that even some of the dishes are basically the same: Both nations enjoy their dolma (stuffed peppers), sarma (wrapped grape leaves) and desserts such as those we know in Turkish as kadayıf, lokum and helva.

Some other similarities you’ll notice are how you pass the time -- whether you call it Turkish coffee or Greek coffee -- both love their coffee. By the way, while you sip your coffee you chat and play tavla (backgammon). This board game has been around a while. It is a shared tradition of both countries.

Whether you are in Turkey or in Greece, you can’t help but notice how much they love their traditional dances and music, open bazaars, markets and bargaining for goods and walking in city squares arm-in-arm chatting away with friends.

If you are interested in learning about how Greeks and Turks lived closely together during the Ottoman Empire before this population exchange, I can recommend “Birds Without Wings” by Louis de Bernières. He records how people lived together, until a war far away changed things forever.

Exchange can open the way to better communication and be a good thing.

greeks and turks can go f*ck themselves... or each other. they can do it 'greek' style, or 'turk' style... i don't care. wot's this got to do with cyprus?
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Postby lola-tulip » Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:09 am

Really, Ethem. The absurdity of your stance will, eventually, dawn on you. :)
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Postby ZoC » Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:15 am

Ethem wrote:
lola-tulip wrote:
Ethem wrote:They didn't commit genocides...from what I know Greece were the ones who invaded western anatolia and thrace with the backing of british prime minister Lloyd George, and the Turks fought back and took back what Greece tried to take by force


Seems you know very little :)

What was it that the Turks "took back"?

For example; places such as:

GREEK COLONIES ON THE ANATOLIAN COASTS, C. 1180–547 BC

Before the Greek migrations that followed the end of the Bronze Age (c. 1200 bc), probably the only Greek-speaking communities on the west coast of Anatolia were Mycenaean settlements at Iasus and Müskebi on the Halicarnassus peninsula and walled Mycenaean colonies at Miletus and Colophon. The major Greek settlement of Anatolia’s west coast belongs to the Dark Age (c. 1200–c. 1000). In contrast to the at best sporadic colonization of the Mycenaean period, this movement has all the characteristics of a migratio
n.


Encyclopedia Britannica

[As for your denial of the Genocides; you are, thankfully, in the minority.]


They took back western anatolia which Greek forces invaded, Ottoman lands...if you want to go back hundreds or even thousands of years of years then everybody should just piss off back to africa so the indigenous animals and flora can have their land lol

i got an idea. as ur still so primitive in ur thinking... why don't just u and those who think like u piss off back to africa. just take over nigeria or trinidad or somewhere... usurp the population and move in.... paint some turkish flags on the mountains and make friends with the gorillas. easy-peasy.
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Postby Ethem » Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:19 am

i'm merely pointing out the absurdity of your claims...you claim western anatolia is greek by right but who's to say what constitutes right? If we're going back in history then who is to say how far back we go? do you see my point?

ZoC, I love that attitude :D lol but the topic is Turks and Greeks so I guess we have to discuss them lol...on the other hand, we are free to ignore the thread completely and move to other threads
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Postby ZoC » Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:24 am

Ethem wrote:i'm merely pointing out the absurdity of your claims...you claim western anatolia is greek by right but who's to say what constitutes right? If we're going back in history then who is to say how far back we go? do you see my point?

ZoC, I love that attitude :D lol but the topic is Turks and Greeks so I guess we have to discuss them lol...on the other hand, we are free to ignore the thread completely and move to other threads


cool. but turks do give it to u up the arse, so i can see why maybe this thread might be relevant to u and halil.
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Postby lola-tulip » Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:25 am

Ethem, in politics we usually go back to sound recorded history if we make bold claims such as the one you imparted about the Turks "taking back" Anatolia, specifically from the Greeks.

I do not wish to argue with you on this point. It is plain.
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Postby Piratis » Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:35 am

Ethem wrote:They didn't commit genocides...from what I know Greece were the ones who invaded western anatolia and thrace with the backing of british prime minister Lloyd George, and the Turks fought back and took back what Greece tried to take by force



Sorry Ethem, but what you (and Deniz) seem to know is just the Turkish propaganda which has nothing to do with reality.

The Greeks have been the majority of Western Anatolia for millenia. With the collapse of the Ottoman empire that territory should have been part of the Greek state, but the Turks invaded the Greek territories and committed genocide against the Greek people, just like they did with all other Christian populations of Asia Minor.

You can continue to deny the genocides committed by the Turks at those times, but the truth is that those genocides happened and that without those genocides Turkey wouldn't be of the size it is today since many of those territories were not Turkish at all. The Turks committed genocides against other populations and stole their lands.
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Postby Ethem » Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:37 am

sound recorded history? history has been recorded for thousands of years...you jsut choose to go back to a point when western anatolia was part of a greek empire...

ZoC, you can't call me primitive and then point out trinidad as africa....obviously someones failing there GCSE's son...
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Postby Piratis » Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:45 am

i'm merely pointing out the absurdity of your claims...you claim western anatolia is greek by right but who's to say what constitutes right? If we're going back in history then who is to say how far back we go? do you see my point?


Greece recognized the borders with Turkey so I am not saying that today Western Anatolia is Greek.

However when you talk about history you better get your facts right. What you are telling us now is equivalent of the White Americans saying that they liberated America from the Indians (Native Americans). Nobody disputes the status of the USA (or any other American country) today, but when you talk about history you can't say such kind of nonsense.
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