Cyprus-Forum.com

[Hermes]

The Austrian has a right to freedom of speech while the Turk hasn't, why is that? its called double standards and discrimination.

Turkish law guarantees neither freedom of religion nor freedom of speech. Why are you complaining that the Turk doesn't have these rights in the West when in reality the Turk doesn't have these rights in his own country?

If you claim you have these in the west why do you complain or discriminate against people when they exercise them??? We are not talking about Turkey we are talking about Austria, does one have to have the same rights in the own country if the wish use them in another? you are sounding rather silly. If I visit Austria do not the laws of the country come into force? not the country I originated from.

The difference is that there are laws protecting the rights of minorities, freedom of speech and religious belief in the West but none in Turkey. Turks are allowed to practice their religion in the West but will encounter opposition if they demand or practice segregation, jihad and sharia while living as a minority. Pointing this out is not discrimination but common sense. It does Turks no good to live abroad in enclaves isolated from the host culture and in increasing hostility to the West as is the case in parts of Germany and Austria.

One is also entitled to ask why you are so eager to complain that Turkish citizens are discriminated against in the West but you never complain when Turkish citizens are denied their rights in Turkey? Surely human rights are universal? Why do you never complain about the lack of free speech and the discrimination against religious minorities in Turkey which are actually enshrined in Turkish law?

Is it because it doesn't fit in with your propaganda of the Turk as universal victim of the West?

[Viewpoint]

The Austrian has a right to freedom of speech while the Turk hasn't, why is that? its called double standards and discrimination.

Turkish law guarantees neither freedom of religion nor freedom of speech. Why are you complaining that the Turk doesn't have these rights in the West when in reality the Turk doesn't have these rights in his own country?

If you claim you have these in the west why do you complain or discriminate against people when they exercise them??? We are not talking about Turkey we are talking about Austria, does one have to have the same rights in the own country if the wish use them in another? you are sounding rather silly. If I visit Austria do not the laws of the country come into force? not the country I originated from.

The difference is that there are laws protecting the rights of minorities, freedom of speech and religious belief in the West but none in Turkey. Turks are allowed to practice their religion in the West but will encounter opposition if they demand segregation, jihad and sharia. Pointing this out is not discrimination but common sense. It does Turks no good to live abroad in enclaves isolated from the host culture and in increasing hostility to the West as is the case in Germany and Austria.

One is also entitled to ask why you are so eager to complain that Turkish citizens are discriminated against in the West but you never complain when Turkish citizens are denied their rights in Turkey? Surely human rights are universal? Why do you never complain about the lack of free speech and the discrimination against religious minorities in Turkey which are enshrined in Turkish law?

Is it because it doesn't fit in with your propaganda of the Turk as victim?

Turkey is far from perfect nor does it claim to be, anyone who does not want to live there can easily move elsewhere until a time when Turkey improves its laws and viewpoint. The only other alternative is to fight back like we did against the GCs to secure our rights.

But are we really talking about the internal affairs of Turkey who has no claim to being perfect unlike Austria who thinks it is the hub of democracy and free speech for all. Its quite clear that this does not apply to all as a Turkish Ambassador is not allowed to voice his opinion that Turks are treated like shit but the counter attack which is more fierce and scathing is applauded, this is called double standards and discrimination of the worst degree. If you claim to allow free speech for all then surely this covers everyone, you cannot pick and choose.

[ZoC]

The Austrian has a right to freedom of speech while the Turk hasn't, why is that? its called double standards and discrimination.

Turkish law guarantees neither freedom of religion nor freedom of speech. Why are you complaining that the Turk doesn't have these rights in the West when in reality the Turk doesn't have these rights in his own country?

If you claim you have these in the west why do you complain or discriminate against people when they exercise them??? We are not talking about Turkey we are talking about Austria, does one have to have the same rights in the own country if the wish use them in another? you are sounding rather silly. If I visit Austria do not the laws of the country come into force? not the country I originated from.

i can see why the turks wouldn't want to give people like you freedom of speech, the garbage you spout.

[Viewpoint]

The Austrian has a right to freedom of speech while the Turk hasn't, why is that? its called double standards and discrimination.

Turkish law guarantees neither freedom of religion nor freedom of speech. Why are you complaining that the Turk doesn't have these rights in the West when in reality the Turk doesn't have these rights in his own country?

If you claim you have these in the west why do you complain or discriminate against people when they exercise them??? We are not talking about Turkey we are talking about Austria, does one have to have the same rights in the own country if the wish use them in another? you are sounding rather silly. If I visit Austria do not the laws of the country come into force? not the country I originated from.

i can see why the turks wouldn't want to give people like you freedom of speech, the garbage you spout.

What is it? dont you like being challenged?

[Hermes]

But are we really talking about the internal affairs of Turkey who has no claim to being perfect unlike Austria who thinks it is the hub of democracy and free speech for all. Its quite clear that this does not apply to all as a Turkish Ambassador is not allowed to voice his opinion that Turks are treated like shit but the counter attack which is more fierce and scathing is applauded, this is called double standards and discrimination of the worst degree. If you claim to allow free speech for all then surely this covers everyone, you cannot pick and choose.

You have missed the point here. Ewald Stadler criticizes the Turkish Ambassador for hypocrisy – telling Turkish immigrants not to integrate then accusing the Austrians of not allowing them to integrate. This is typical of the hypocrisy of the AKP.

It's true there are ghettos of Turkish migrants living in Islamic enclaves in the West. But the AKP encourages such a division. Erdogan has recently labeled the assimilation of Turks a "crime against humanity."

It's also undeniable that the Turkish diaspora in Europe remains actively antagonistic to their new home. The two major Turkish mosques in Germany are named Fatih (conqueror) after Ottoman Sultan Mehmet who captured Constantinople. What does this tell you about Turkish migrants' opinion about their position in their host nations?

Most Turks in Germany and Austria are not integrated into civil society. It doesn't help when AKP officials actively promote segregation as a desired policy. If they want to become Europeans then Muslims have to give up the idea of converting others, renounce the Jihad and give up the Shariah. This is not depriving Turks of their "rights", as you seem to suggest, as these are incompatible with the German and Austrian constitutions.

Turks have no right to impose their culture on others, promote segregation or campaign for it in the West. They can choose to go and live in Turkey if they want to live by the shariah. It's a fair compromise if you think about the alternative.

[Viewpoint]

But are we really talking about the internal affairs of Turkey who has no claim to being perfect unlike Austria who thinks it is the hub of democracy and free speech for all. Its quite clear that this does not apply to all as a Turkish Ambassador is not allowed to voice his opinion that Turks are treated like shit but the counter attack which is more fierce and scathing is applauded, this is called double standards and discrimination of the worst degree. If you claim to allow free speech for all then surely this covers everyone, you cannot pick and choose.

You have missed the point here. Ewald Stadler criticizes the Turkish Ambassador for hypocrisy – telling Turkish immigrants not to integrate then accusing the Austrians of not allowing them to integrate. This is typical of the hypocrisy of the AKP.

It's true there are ghettos of Turkish migrants living in Islamic enclaves in the West. But the AKP encourages such a division. Erdogan has recently labeled the assimilation of Turks a "crime against humanity."

It's also undeniable that the Turkish diaspora in Europe remains actively antagonistic to their new home. The two major Turkish mosques in Germany are named Fatih (conqueror) after Ottoman Sultan Mehmet who captured Constantinople. What does this tell you about Turkish migrants opinion about their position in their host nations?

Most Turks in Germany and Austria are not integrated into civil society. It doesn't help when AKP officials actively promote segregation as a desired policy. If they want to become Europeans then Muslims have to give up the idea of converting others, renounce the Jihad and give up the Shariah. This is not depriving Turks of their "rights", as you seem to suggest, as these are incompatible with the German and Austrian constitutions.

Turks have no right to impose their culture on others or campaign for it in the West. They can choose to go and live in Turkey if they want to live by the sharia. It's a fair compromise if you think about the alternative.

Does this detract from the right of freedom of speech of either party?

If you promote democracy and human rights for all then surely everyone has the right to live as they wish, do these Turks cause problems or attack others for wearing red? or a mini skirt or being Christians. You are probably aware that you cannot force anyone against their will to integrate or assimilate because you think its the right thing, people have to want to do this? Its like saying TCs have to be more like GCs or that GCs should dominate TCs, isn't this what really got us into this mess in the first place?

What you don't understand is that Austrians do not allow Turks to integrate because they are not like them and want to protect their original identity whereas Austrians what them to assimilate and be like them. If you support democracy and freedom of speech and expression then there is nothing you can do to force people into the "Austrian Mould" or any other mould for that matter just you cannot stop the melting pot of nationalities we now see throughout Europe, can you turn a Polish person into an English man? should Turks be discriminated against because their characteristics and differences are more visible?

[Hermes]

But are we really talking about the internal affairs of Turkey who has no claim to being perfect unlike Austria who thinks it is the hub of democracy and free speech for all. Its quite clear that this does not apply to all as a Turkish Ambassador is not allowed to voice his opinion that Turks are treated like shit but the counter attack which is more fierce and scathing is applauded, this is called double standards and discrimination of the worst degree. If you claim to allow free speech for all then surely this covers everyone, you cannot pick and choose.

You have missed the point here. Ewald Stadler criticizes the Turkish Ambassador for hypocrisy – telling Turkish immigrants not to integrate then accusing the Austrians of not allowing them to integrate. This is typical of the hypocrisy of the AKP.

It's true there are ghettos of Turkish migrants living in Islamic enclaves in the West. But the AKP encourages such a division. Erdogan has recently labeled the assimilation of Turks a "crime against humanity."

It's also undeniable that the Turkish diaspora in Europe remains actively antagonistic to their new home. The two major Turkish mosques in Germany are named Fatih (conqueror) after Ottoman Sultan Mehmet who captured Constantinople. What does this tell you about Turkish migrants opinion about their position in their host nations?

Most Turks in Germany and Austria are not integrated into civil society. It doesn't help when AKP officials actively promote segregation as a desired policy. If they want to become Europeans then Muslims have to give up the idea of converting others, renounce the Jihad and give up the Shariah. This is not depriving Turks of their "rights", as you seem to suggest, as these are incompatible with the German and Austrian constitutions.

Turks have no right to impose their culture on others or campaign for it in the West. They can choose to go and live in Turkey if they want to live by the sharia. It's a fair compromise if you think about the alternative.

Does this detract from the right of freedom of speech of either party?

If you promote democracy and human rights for all then surely everyone has the right to live as they wish, do these Turks cause problems or attack others for wearing red? or a mini skirt or being Christians. You are probably aware that you cannot force anyone against their will to integrate or assimilate because you think its the right thing, people have to want to do this? Its like saying TCs have to be more like GCs or that GCs should dominate TCs, isn't this what really got us into this mess in the first place?

What you don't understand is that Austrians do not allow Turks to integrate because they are not like them and want to protect their original identity whereas Austrians what them to assimilate and be like them. If you support democracy and freedom of speech and expression then there is nothing you can do to force people into the "Austrian Mould" or any other mould for that matter just you cannot stop the melting pot of nationalities we now see throughout Europe, can you turn a Polish person into an English man? should Turks be discriminated against because their characteristics and differences are more visible?

If Christians in Damascus were to openly wear their crosses in Damascus, there would be bloodshed. But Syrian Christians are wise enough to recognise one thing: the dominant culture of Syria is Islamic. At the same time, Turks in Germany should recognise that the dominant culture of Germany is, well, not Islam.

[Viewpoint]

But are we really talking about the internal affairs of Turkey who has no claim to being perfect unlike Austria who thinks it is the hub of democracy and free speech for all. Its quite clear that this does not apply to all as a Turkish Ambassador is not allowed to voice his opinion that Turks are treated like shit but the counter attack which is more fierce and scathing is applauded, this is called double standards and discrimination of the worst degree. If you claim to allow free speech for all then surely this covers everyone, you cannot pick and choose.

You have missed the point here. Ewald Stadler criticizes the Turkish Ambassador for hypocrisy – telling Turkish immigrants not to integrate then accusing the Austrians of not allowing them to integrate. This is typical of the hypocrisy of the AKP.

It's true there are ghettos of Turkish migrants living in Islamic enclaves in the West. But the AKP encourages such a division. Erdogan has recently labeled the assimilation of Turks a "crime against humanity."

It's also undeniable that the Turkish diaspora in Europe remains actively antagonistic to their new home. The two major Turkish mosques in Germany are named Fatih (conqueror) after Ottoman Sultan Mehmet who captured Constantinople. What does this tell you about Turkish migrants opinion about their position in their host nations?

Most Turks in Germany and Austria are not integrated into civil society. It doesn't help when AKP officials actively promote segregation as a desired policy. If they want to become Europeans then Muslims have to give up the idea of converting others, renounce the Jihad and give up the Shariah. This is not depriving Turks of their "rights", as you seem to suggest, as these are incompatible with the German and Austrian constitutions.

Turks have no right to impose their culture on others or campaign for it in the West. They can choose to go and live in Turkey if they want to live by the sharia. It's a fair compromise if you think about the alternative.

Does this detract from the right of freedom of speech of either party?

If you promote democracy and human rights for all then surely everyone has the right to live as they wish, do these Turks cause problems or attack others for wearing red? or a mini skirt or being Christians. You are probably aware that you cannot force anyone against their will to integrate or assimilate because you think its the right thing, people have to want to do this? Its like saying TCs have to be more like GCs or that GCs should dominate TCs, isn't this what really got us into this mess in the first place?

What you don't understand is that Austrians do not allow Turks to integrate because they are not like them and want to protect their original identity whereas Austrians what them to assimilate and be like them. If you support democracy and freedom of speech and expression then there is nothing you can do to force people into the "Austrian Mould" or any other mould for that matter just you cannot stop the melting pot of nationalities we now see throughout Europe, can you turn a Polish person into an English man? should Turks be discriminated against because their characteristics and differences are more visible?

If Christians in Damascus were to openly wear their crosses in Damascus, there would be bloodshed. But Syrian Christians are wise enough to recognise one thing: the dominant culture of Syria is Islamic. At the same time, Turks in Germany should recognise that the dominant culture of Germany is, well, not Islam.

Come on Christians wear their crosses where ever they go and demand this right, we see them all over the world dont give that bull shit.

[ZoC]

The Austrian has a right to freedom of speech while the Turk hasn't, why is that? its called double standards and discrimination.

Turkish law guarantees neither freedom of religion nor freedom of speech. Why are you complaining that the Turk doesn't have these rights in the West when in reality the Turk doesn't have these rights in his own country?

If you claim you have these in the west why do you complain or discriminate against people when they exercise them??? We are not talking about Turkey we are talking about Austria, does one have to have the same rights in the own country if the wish use them in another? you are sounding rather silly. If I visit Austria do not the laws of the country come into force? not the country I originated from.

i can see why the turks wouldn't want to give people like you freedom of speech, the garbage you spout.

What is it? dont you like being challenged?

Is that the reason turkey denies people their freedom of speech?
(I love being challenged. It sharpens one's wits and makes one even more effective).

[Hermes]

If Christians in Damascus were to openly wear their crosses in Damascus, there would be bloodshed. But Syrian Christians are wise enough to recognise one thing: the dominant culture of Syria is Islamic. At the same time, Turks in Germany should recognise that the dominant culture of Germany is, well, not Islam.

Come on Christians wear their crosses where ever they go and demand this right, we see them all over the world dont give that bull shit.

You clearly know absolutely nothing about living as a Christian in the East. The point stands. The dominant culture of Germany and Austria is not Islam. Those who live there and want to integrate have to obey the laws and have to learn the language. A consensus on values and norms is vital for any community. The Turkish ambassador to Austria should not demand segregation of the Turkish minority then complain that Turks are living a segregated existence. Why does Erdogan complain that integration is a "crime against humanity"? What kind of message does that send to Turks living abroad? How does that promote a peaceful co-existence?