Cyprus-Forum.com

[runaway]

Kikapu is the worst type of traitor peddling GC propoganda willing to sell out the TCs without a second glance.

I hear you brother.

siktir edin rumun dolunu.

You need not comment on threads that don't concern Turkey.

Kıbrıs Türktür.

[Me Ed]

so for the senators they should be all t/c correct?

can g/c vote for the 30 northern mps?

Why not and vice versa the candidates with the most votes will be elected to the lower house, So that would allow MPs regardless of their ethnic origin or which state they resided in to be elected. SO the first 70 GC candidates with most country wide votes would be elected and the first 30 TC senators with the most country wide votes would be elected to make a total of 100 Cypriot MPs.

Sensible,realistic,workable proposals,VP...But as you too implied earlier the fanatical GC propagandist/hate merchants will never accept it...They will insist on" True Democracy,human right principles,EU requirements" etc,so they can dominate, and crush the TCs once again...With them it is about revenge,getting even,for all the real and imaginary pain and suffering in the hands of the Ottomans going back to 1571...Just ask Piratis.

Bir,

Those who advocate democracy and human rights are not necessarily fanatics or haters.

This is 2010 and not 1960. Back then the TCs took certain actions to prevent enosis with Greece, a concept today that is dead in the water and the RoC has removed Greece from its affairs.

However, whilst the TCs are understandably asking for certain representations in a united Cyprus, those GCs advocating democracy and human rights do not want to see veto powers used in the interests of a foreign country, namely Turkey, to the detriment of our homeland, or to render the government of Cyprus unable to function.

Perhaps you would like to elaborate on how you think, in this day and age, how any elected government of Cyprus would "crush" the TCs and what they would have to gain by doing so.

Me Ed...Personally I am happy to let by gones be by gones,but that is not how nations or communites operate in reality...They have their collective consciousness,and they are dictated by what happened in the past...

When a majority shows total disregard for the feelings of their significant minority,tear up international agreements,force their political partners out of power at gunpoint (because that is how the TCs see it,no matter what you think!),watch them suffer in isolation and deprevation for 11 long years with total callousness and disregard,and then start crying about democracy and human rights when their arses are kicked,you can't blame people for being suspicious...

Where is the evidence that the GCs have learnt their lessons from the recent past???where are the expressions of sympathy and regret???
All the TCs get these days are accusations of aiding a foreign power to satisfy Her expansionist ambitions,plus wanting to gain at the expense of others etc etc...Deeds must match words if you want people to respond positively to changing circumstances...Nothing has been done to make it easier for the TCs to put their confidence in their Greek Cypriot compatriots...Hence they want safeguards that the bad old days of 63-74 will not be repeated...Once you show some understanding of this fact,and are prepared to offer workable guarantees I am sure something could be worked out to mutual satisfaction...Threats of 'waiting for the balance of power to change to liberate Cyprus' can only be counterproductive...And that is all we are getting these days...Plus being told that after over 400 years on this land we are till not real Cypriots but Ottoman remnants! You go figure!

Bir,

I take all your points on board and like many Cypriots view the TCs as 100% Cypriot.

You say that you are one to let bygones be bygones and that is not how nations or communities operate together but I would beg to differ.

If you look at the Northern Ireland peace process, here is a recent example on how a change of collective consciousness can put the past behind behind them.

Sure there are still hard-liners about in NI and those that are still determined to scupper the peace process, but fortunately the vast majority on both side if the line want to put past behind them to preserve the peace.

I also believe that deep-down most Cypriots want this for Cyprus.

Talking about the past, whilst important, is fruitless, counter-productive, a complete waste of time and adds nothing to resolving the current problem as countless threads on this forum demonstrate. Both sides were ultimately wronged and when a GC and TC debate who on who started it, who is to blame for it or who was most wronged by it reminds me of a dog chasing his own tail.

The point I was making is that if you take time to examine the RoC of today and take into account its laws and obligations as an EU member, you will find that it bears no relation to the RoC of the 60s and thinking that a modern European Government would go round "crushing" certain minorities is, with respect, quite ludicrous.

[All4114All]

Kikapu is the worst type of traitor peddling GC propoganda willing to sell out the TCs without a second glance.

I hear you brother.

Does that mean you both have the same father, different mothers, or, same mother, different fathers, or, same mother, same father.?

I think he's given up on being a Law of the Sea expert, and turned into a nigger!

Your such an expert on facts (that was sarcasm)
Let me simplify this for you.
It is the sovereignty and jurisdiction of the state to control its ports and foreign vessel ships in its territorial zone as The Law of Sea shows you. So because of unfortunate events that have recognised RoC as a single state the government which controls the single state has power to open and close seaports as it chooses. So it can for example tell a foreign vessel don’t dock at Famagusta it’s not operational and you will be fined but re route your vessel to Limmasol.

Then you paste this, Mind you I am not going against the Law I am using the Law so I am not changing or twisting anything here and I want you to do the same.

RIGHT OF INNOCENT PASSAGE
Subsection A. Rules applicable to all ships
Article 14
4. Passage is innocent so long as it is not prejudicial to the peace, good order or security of the coastal State. Such passage shall take place in conformity with these articles and with other rules of international law.

Correct it is applicable to all ships.

I want you to answer this question remember don’t change the law just answer it within the law and I am asking the question from a T/C community point of view. For argument sake a foreign vessel exporting oranges/grapes whatever from Northern Cyprus be a prejudicial to the peace or security?

The only answer I can come up with is as I stated above your G/C government is the one in control of seaports and it can choose what to do. Why? Well the Greek Administration is representing the whole island = isolation so we are back at the start.

Now you go talk to your Greek Government.

[Get Real!]

...because of unfortunate events that have recognised RoC as a single state the government which controls the single state has power to open and close seaports as it chooses.

Rubbish! They are NOT "unfortunate events" that Cyprus is internationally recognized as being run by the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF INDIGENOUS CYPRIOTS as opposed to a Muslim miniscule minority of Turkish separatists who arrived here recently to invade and occupy!

GET THE TRUE FACTS THROUGH YOUR THICK AND STUPID TURKISH HEAD!

For argument sake a foreign vessel exporting oranges/grapes whatever from Northern Cyprus be a prejudicial to the peace or security?

The international law of the sea answers your question very clearly with…

“any threat or use of force against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of the coastal State”

and…

“in any other manner in violation of the principles of international law embodied in the Charter of the United Nations”

The only answer I can come up with is as I stated above your G/C government is the one in control of seaports and it can choose what to do. Why? Well the Greek Administration is representing the whole island = isolation so we are back at the start.

Rubbish! There's no such thing as a "Greek government" in Cyprus but a Cypriot government representing the ENTIRE island, and a group of TURKISH SEPARATIST CLOWNS just like the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka, who are dancing around like the Karagioz because they can hide behind Turkey, but the moment the CNG gets its hands on the Karagioz you will very quickly forget how to dance and sit down like a good little boy! That’s the TRUTH of what’s really happening in Cyprus…

Now you go talk to your Greek Government.

We don't have a Greek goverment so you've failed again.

[boomerang]

can an roc flagged ship dock anywhere in turkey at the request of the greeks/armenians/kurds living there for inport/export anything?...and if not, why not?

[Get Real!]

can an roc flagged ship dock anywhere in turkey at the request of the greeks/armenians/kurds living there for inport/export anything?...and if not, why not?

Never mind the Kurds... look what happened when Turks attempted to approach Palestinians!

[lovernomore]

Kikapu is the worst type of traitor peddling GC propoganda willing to sell out the TCs without a second glance.

I hear you brother.

siktir edin rumun dolunu.

Bravo be runaway gardascigim.

[Kikapu]

Kikapu is the worst type of traitor peddling GC propoganda willing to sell out the TCs without a second glance.

If supporting a Fair & Just settlement for the TCs to remain as Cypriots and prosper in their own country of Cyprus under the Rule of Law, True Federation, True Democracy, Human Rights, International Law and EU Principles makes me the "worse type of a traitor" against the Fascists NeoPartitionists, then I accept.!

You on the other hand, is the Best type of a Traitor against "his" people, the TCs and other Cypriots and "his" country of Cyprus, who would want to destroy it all, just so that you can keep more stolen GC land with your desires of Partition for Cyprus and the loss of identity, culture, heritage, names, ethnic Turkish Cypriot Language of the TC community.!

There is no comparison between us. My type of "treasonous act" will wipe the floor off with your type of treasonous acts with your Fascist face any day of the week. I got the support of the 21st century western world's civilization on my side, and all you got, is your 16th century mentality.

[Viewpoint]

This is not a i can piss higher than you competition and your view of a solution is exactly that this does not remove the fact that you are trying to conceal selling us out by allowing the GCs the option to manipulate your sell out to control the whole of Cyprussweeping us to one side giving them exactly what they dream of.

[Kikapu]

This is not a i can piss higher than you competition and your view of a solution is exactly that this does not remove the fact that you are trying to conceal selling us out by allowing the GCs the option to manipulate your sell out to control the whole of Cyprussweeping us to one side giving them exactly what they dream of.

Just for the record, I can piss higher than you.!

You are totally wrong on what my intentions are and you know it, which are the reasons for your bitchiness, just because my plan knocks out all your arguments for a partition, under the guises that the GCs will always have a say so over the TCs due to their size. Why the hell do you think Denktash agreed to BBF for, was to add security for the TCs by them all being in one state. The trouble with him and you however, is that you don't want to reduce the size of the north to add that security. Instead, you want to keep the GCs out by undemocratic means and keep their land for when you push for another partition later on. That will not be allowed to happen. For one thing, you don't have the money to buy all the GCs properties, or even a fraction of them. What did you expect, that they gift the whole north to you just to have your company.? I don't think so. It is therefore logical to decrease the size of the north state by at least 50% in order to increase the TC concentration in order to maintain the overwhelming majority. The GCs may come to like you again after a period of time has passed, but don't expect them to come to the north state to be with you right away if they do not own land there. You are getting everything you have asked for, and all being very kosher too.

Now, just to make you sleep better at night just because you are worried that one night half of the GC population will come to the north state to set up camp, once you have given most of the GCs land back, you can ask for what I suggested "The Grandfathered-in Population" rule, where that GC population will ONLY grow at the same rate as the TC population of all those GCs who have property in the north, whether they will move to the north or not, that population number cannot go down, but up, along with the TCs numbers based on growth each year.. Same rules applying to the TCs in the south also. Now tell me where is the danger that you constantly make a fool of yourself by repeating the same tired old excuses. I have told you before, that I'm not at all crazy about any political 7ethnic party having all the power, but at the same time, I'm not interested in violating the basics principles of Democracy either. Tell your leader to reach a deal with the GC leader and the EU to allow you this ONE meaningless derogation to keep the GCs population growth in the north at the same rate as TCs, at least until the country eventually moves from ethnic political parties to political parties based on political ideology.