The Best Cyprus Community

Skip to content


WikiLeaks-Greek Cyprus Accession

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby BirKibrisli » Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:11 am

Viewpoint wrote:
boulio wrote:so for the senators they should be all t/c correct?

can g/c vote for the 30 northern mps?


Why not and vice versa the candidates with the most votes will be elected to the lower house, So that would allow MPs regardless of their ethnic origin or which state they resided in to be elected. SO the first 70 GC candidates with most country wide votes would be elected and the first 30 TC senators with the most country wide votes would be elected to make a total of 100 Cypriot MPs.


Sensible,realistic,workable proposals,VP...But as you too implied earlier the fanatical GC propagandist/hate merchants will never accept it...They will insist on" True Democracy,human right principles,EU requirements" etc,so they can dominate, and crush the TCs once again...With them it is about revenge,getting even,for all the real and imaginary pain and suffering in the hands of the Ottomans going back to 1571...Just ask Piratis.
User avatar
BirKibrisli
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 6162
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 4:28 pm
Location: Australia

Postby Viewpoint » Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:28 am

BirKibrisli wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
boulio wrote:so for the senators they should be all t/c correct?

can g/c vote for the 30 northern mps?


Why not and vice versa the candidates with the most votes will be elected to the lower house, So that would allow MPs regardless of their ethnic origin or which state they resided in to be elected. SO the first 70 GC candidates with most country wide votes would be elected and the first 30 TC senators with the most country wide votes would be elected to make a total of 100 Cypriot MPs.


Sensible,realistic,workable proposals,VP...But as you too implied earlier the fanatical GC propagandist/hate merchants will never accept it...They will insist on" True Democracy,human right principles,EU requirements" etc,so they can dominate, and crush the TCs once again...With them it is about revenge,getting even,for all the real and imaginary pain and suffering in the hands of the Ottomans going back to 1571...Just ask Piratis.


Have to agree with you Bir, thats why no one in the north thinks there will ever be a solution so therefore people just about their daily lives thinking that this is the solution.
User avatar
Viewpoint
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 25214
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:48 pm
Location: Nicosia/Lefkosa

Postby Me Ed » Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:12 am

BirKibrisli wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
boulio wrote:so for the senators they should be all t/c correct?

can g/c vote for the 30 northern mps?


Why not and vice versa the candidates with the most votes will be elected to the lower house, So that would allow MPs regardless of their ethnic origin or which state they resided in to be elected. SO the first 70 GC candidates with most country wide votes would be elected and the first 30 TC senators with the most country wide votes would be elected to make a total of 100 Cypriot MPs.


Sensible,realistic,workable proposals,VP...But as you too implied earlier the fanatical GC propagandist/hate merchants will never accept it...They will insist on" True Democracy,human right principles,EU requirements" etc,so they can dominate, and crush the TCs once again...With them it is about revenge,getting even,for all the real and imaginary pain and suffering in the hands of the Ottomans going back to 1571...Just ask Piratis.

Bir,

Those who advocate democracy and human rights are not necessarily fanatics or haters.

This is 2010 and not 1960. Back then the TCs took certain actions to prevent enosis with Greece, a concept today that is dead in the water and the RoC has removed Greece from its affairs.

However, whilst the TCs are understandably asking for certain representations in a united Cyprus, those GCs advocating democracy and human rights do not want to see veto powers used in the interests of a foreign country, namely Turkey, to the detriment of our homeland, or to render the government of Cyprus unable to function.

Perhaps you would like to elaborate on how you think, in this day and age, how any elected government of Cyprus would "crush" the TCs and what they would have to gain by doing so.
User avatar
Me Ed
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor
 
Posts: 1787
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:24 pm
Location: The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

Postby boulio » Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:57 am

i think that cross voting weighted averages will work in cyprus,but i have another issue,i think that the proportion be of the lower house be according to population and not a fixed amount (70,30)also im going to use a englishmen for this example.if a englishmen who has been living in the north or for that matter in the south and has a roc citizenship would he be allowed to run for either house?

ME ED concerning veto powers i believe Talat had agreed in the federal power structure to get ride of them whith the agreement on governance with christofias.
boulio
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor
 
Posts: 2575
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 6:45 am

Postby Oracle » Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:56 am

BirKibrisli wrote:
Oracle wrote:Are you hearing voices, Bir? Because you don't even make a passing effort to answer the questions raised. You seem to be answering something only you are party to.

Regardless, since you issue blackmails again, I have just one thing to say to your folks: drop the hostage demands and get your army out!


Not before you accept your part of the blame,apologise for wanting to give my country away to Greece,show us you have learnt your lessons from history,and get rid of your rampant hatred of all things Turkish...Fair enough??? :wink:


Whatever land you are referring to as 'your country', there isn't any part which the Turks occupy which didn't instead belong to another group of people for thousand of years of recorded history and those people are still here reclaiming their possessions!

Cyprus was never yours to 'own'. You are here - rightfully - for only as long as you allow democracy and equality to preside. Right now, you are preventing that course. If any (useless) apologies are due, they are from you to us.
User avatar
Oracle
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 23507
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:13 am
Location: Anywhere but...

Re: WikiLeaks-Greek Cyprus Accession

Postby All4114All » Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:44 pm

Kikapu wrote:
All4114All wrote:Actually you miss the point Alan Meale seems to have a strong connection with the Greek Cypriot community dont worry if he is guilty or not. Although he doesn't find himself guilty as he states
Meale has denied any wrongdoing, and said his involvement in the matter was purely down to his "football interest".
So he confirms that it is only 'football interest' well this 'football interest' club is Barnet F.C who the chairman is Anthony Kleanthous are we now begining to tie strings together? also to add to the string of Alan Meale his something more recent.
25/10/2010
The event, organised through the Greek Cypriot Brotherhood, is being held in Parliament on Wednesday. The Mayor, along with councillors of Lapithos, are coming to 'coordinate the efforts of their compatriots overseas, to meet and discuss with Members of Parliament the latest developments on the issue of Cyprus and ask for help on issues affecting Cypriot refugees and the human rights of all Cypriots.'

The event is also being sponsored by Alan Meale MP and Jim Sheridan MP.
http://www.finchleyconservatives.com/ne ... ithos.html

Now if he was comming to discuss business no problems but a sponsor of the Greek Cypriot Brotherhood which supports my 1998 article of receving 10k from the group.


I'm really bored with your above, totally pointless argument, just to try and make something out of nothing. Please don't bore me again with useless posts as the ones above...................please.!

All4114All wrote:As a citizen sure I receive EU membership so individually I have a right to have my Passport and ID card because this is my land aswell. But as a nation well are we benefiting from the EU as the South No. Even after promises from the EU and US that who ever voted in favour of the referendum 2004 will receive all benefits but what have we today the South is prospering while the North continues with no change. Many of the facist G/C on this forum will lay blame on Turkey or the T/C parliment that we still have embargoes upon the citizens of T/C but this is the true propaganda and double standards from the South Cypurs to the EU. To understand as an individual I enjoy my EU benefits while Im under Turkish administration. It would of been interesting to see if T/C citizens were to apply for EU passport must be under Greek administration as a condition how many would actually apply for the Passport not many I assume.

There will never be a settlement on Cyprus as long as the South is enjoying all benefits why would you change when your already happy? 6 years ago the EU could of pressured both sides to come to an agreement before entry but they turn a blind eye and ignored everything and accepted the RoC with the South as the governing body of the whole island.

I as a T/C will enjoy a strong relationship with my G/C friend but if he/she is to arrogant and full of lies then I will find it very hard for me to call he/she my friend.


Listen, my friend. Personally speaking, I think you are a nice fellow who has had too much of "trnc brainwashing" gone to your head. I don't know whether you know it or not, but you are like someone who has a sign on their forehead that reads, " Please Ridicule Me" with the stuff you posts a lot of the times. Let me explain to you what I mean, and I'm not going to ridicule you if all possible, even though it is going to be very hard not to..


First of all, nobody promised anything to the "trnc", regarding the outcome of the Annan plan referendum. What was promised, was that the RoC would become an EU member and all of it's citizens, TCs and GCs alike, and the EU has kept it's promise. Anything that was "promised" to the TCs, they have gotten them. Tell me anything a TC cannot do withing the RoC controlled areas.? Tell me anything a TC cannot bring into the "trnc" from anywhere in the world.? The isolation and the embargoes are against the "trnc" and not the TCs. The "trnc" is an unrecognised illegal entity created by Turkey, for Turkey, therefore, there is no "North Cyprus" and "South Cyprus" or "Turkish Administration" and "Greek Administration" in Cyprus. I know that's how you have been brought up to believe and to think in those terms, is the reason why you set yourself up to be ridiculed with what the realities are.

There is ONLY one recognised government regardless of the political internal problems within the RoC. Despite the political internal problems, the TCs have the same social benefits as the GCs do within the RoC. The TCs also have the protection of the RoC and the EU when away from the Cyprus. What the TCs lack, are political benefits within the RoC, the EU and the UN as long as they choose to live in the "trnc". This the EU did not promise to change just by the TCs voting "YES" on the AP. Those benefits would have come had the AP was voted by the GCs also. The reason why the TCs voted "YES" and the GCs voted "NO", was because of a very lopsided plan favouring the the TCs, settlers, Turkey, Britain, for the very long term, and some GCs for the short term. It left the majority of the GCs in a "no mans land", in a limbo, filled with uncertainties. You need to ask the question as to why the AP was made to favour one side far more than the other side.? It was not the EU's job to do that, but the UN. But now that the RoC is a EU member, you can be sure that they will make sure any settlement will need to have their own EU Principles included, no matter what the UN may be willing to accept for a settlement. Today no one talks about the failed Annan plan, except for Turkey and the "trnc". Have you ever asked the question why that is.? I'm sure you already know the answer, therefore, there's no need for me to tell you.

The RoC would like to have a settlement, as long as it is settlement that will respect every one's rights. The whole island can function much better as one than divided one. It is foolish to think that anyone will want their V8 engine to run only on 5 cylinders. The RoC at the moment is running on 5 cylinders and the "trnc" on ZERO. That is the reason as to why the "trnc" needs a solution more than the RoC, because while the RoC is not running on all 8 cylinders as they would prefer, they would prefer the 5 cylinders than nothing at all, as the case would have been under the AP, which would have decimated the RoC politically, economically and as a country. What the TCs needs to do to benefit from everything the country of Cyprus can offer them, is to help the RoC run on all 8 cylinders politically and economically, but this can never happen as long as the TCs are still after Taksim. As soon as the TCs decide against Taksim, is when they too can help the country of Cyprus prosper, with them in it.!


Thanks for not being hard on me but I would like to reply.

1st Paragraph:
I do not disagree with you the fact that T/C citizens are isolated in respect of having EU passport although I will elaborate in my 2nd post to you what you fail to see. By stating there is no North and South is that there is a border between the communities and within this border is the UN peace keeping force which is dividing two communities from any conflicts although it has remained neutral for many decades. Let’s us not forget the negotiations and passports please to cross. RoC is a Greek administration which going by your reply means that the struggle of all T/C over the decades will mean nothing if we drop everything and adopt the RoC under Greek administration exactly what you attended to achieve many years ago but instead of violence you will succeed via politics. That is the reality. I want you to show me a G/C government which you have elected that has come out and said we will embrace our T/C brothers and sisters the confidence and security we need? Then I can be ridiculed for continuing to stay in the North.

Now you have to think a little lets say in your perfect world we T/C drop everything and accept the RoC as it stands Greek government in power nothing changes which are many views on this forum. What you’re asking the T/C people all over the world but of course the T/C citizen mainly who live here is that we were wrong and you guys were right and Enosis and all other events that have been the struggle of all T/C was for nothing. Can you comprehend this? The stronger reality is one day you will be negotiating with Turks and not T/C.

2nd Paragraph:
The reason you don’t hear the Annan Plan anymore is the reason you don’t hear enosis or Eoka anymore but the word occupation continually circulates why well the reason I have stated above is that the Greek administration which represents the whole island and the Greek officials in the EU hide the truth. So it is up to the T/C community to remind you and the mess we are left with today now I will jump the fence and say that our T/C parliament certainly has not helped although Mr Talat was close.

You say the AP was benefiting the G/C for a short term well thank you for understanding because there has not been anything to secure T/C rights for a long term so we continue the negotiations.

3rd Paragraph:
I agree the whole island can run better united than it can divide.
All4114All
Member
Member
 
Posts: 198
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 11:50 am

Postby All4114All » Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:56 pm

Kikapu wrote:
The isolation and the embargoes are against the "trnc" and not the TCs.

Allow me to educate you in a quick brief run through.
1963 after the collapse RoC G/C government subjected the T/C to political, economic and social hardship. This was supported by the UNSG of the T/C isolation.
The economic sanctions lasted until 1968. Because of this two separate economies were created T/C living 3% of the island. Mind you many T/C lost work and wages. Along comes a spider after 1974 Greece which it’s obligation in joining the RoC parliament was to place embargoes on Northern Cyprus so as the South continues to prosper from international trade the North continues to fall behind a de facto isolation. However T/C living in North Cyprus still was able to export agricultural products to the EC until 1994 but the G/C government wanted to further isolate the T/C citizens with the Anastasiou Case which was successful in doing so. After 20 years the RoC and Greece found victory from the European Court of Justice to have found legal support for economic embargo although no international community or international body supported the decision or to call upon it. Now we have the G/C government successfully blocking the direct trade regulation once again T/C rise to economic development falls behind. But let’s fast track after 2004 when RoC entered EU. So the Council creates the Green Line Regulation to overcome legal aspects so the RoC can enter the Union. However the Green Line Regulation has no free movement something the EU painted a picture over to hide the truth. T/C has no political representation in EU institutions. After the EU brought G/C into the Union it had to fall back on legal arrangements in case no solution was found which meant that RoC and Greek Cypriot government are the only legitimate authority in Cyprus. Wrong! So although T/C who lives in TRNC has democratic rights to political representation in EU institutions they cannot exercise this because all institutional rights are reserved for the RoC. So you have the EU that cannot deny democratic rights to the T/C but on the other hand its own regulations prevent these rights to put into practice. Thank you for the T/C opening the borders wouldn’t you say? But the continuation of the South to enforce its power continues to deny T/C rights. Basically live in the North TRNC and you suffer is the attitude from every word and lie spoken from the G/C parliament and vision. You a clever in stating that the embargoes are against TRNC but the people who live in TRNC are the TC which you fail to understand. Mind you as you call it illegal state international laws do not stop if an international flag ship wanted to stop in the port of Famagusta but it is the relentless G/C government that threatens the international community to do so.
All4114All
Member
Member
 
Posts: 198
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 11:50 am

Postby Get Real! » Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:22 pm

All4114All wrote:Mind you as you call it illegal state international laws do not stop if an international flag ship wanted to stop in the port of Famagusta but it is the relentless G/C government that threatens the international community to do so.

There’s nothing more irritating than a newbie fool who (1) has serious grammar/syntax issues and (2) can’t get his facts right, to begin his response to a seasoned poster like Kikapu with something belittling like…“Allow me to educate you”! :roll:

As for your “facts” let us educate YOU now regarding…


United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea

http://www.un.org/Depts/los/convention_ ... osindx.htm


Restrictions imposed by the Republic of Cyprus on vessels calling illegally at ports in the occupied areas of Cyprus

http://www.mfa.gov.cy/mfa/mfa2006.nsf/c ... enDocument
User avatar
Get Real!
Forum Addict
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 48333
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:25 am
Location: Nicosia

Postby All4114All » Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:16 pm

Get Real! wrote:
All4114All wrote:Mind you as you call it illegal state international laws do not stop if an international flag ship wanted to stop in the port of Famagusta but it is the relentless G/C government that threatens the international community to do so.

There’s nothing more irritating than a newbie fool who (1) has serious grammar/syntax issues and (2) can’t get his facts right, to begin his response to a seasoned poster like Kikapu with something belittling like…“Allow me to educate you”! :roll:

As for your “facts” let us educate YOU now regarding…


United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea

http://www.un.org/Depts/los/convention_ ... osindx.htm


Restrictions imposed by the Republic of Cyprus on vessels calling illegally at ports in the occupied areas of Cyprus

http://www.mfa.gov.cy/mfa/mfa2006.nsf/c ... enDocument


Seriously GR.
Law Of The Sea which I know of but thank you for the link:
1. RoC cannot close seaports that it does not control

2.'Finally, the use of seaports in the northern part of Cyprus might be in violation of domestic law of the Republic of Cyprus, as the government closed them for international traffic in 1974. However, under international law, third States are not obliged to comply with Cyprus' law, and there is no prohibition in general international law to use ports which are not under the effective control of the government.' EU Comissioner Rehn.

3.The RoC may try to deter foreign ships from calling at a port in the North by denying that ship to access ports under its control or by threatening the ship or the owner with criminal prosecution in the RoC. Such actions would be a political decision under domestic law. Greek Administration Control but lets forget the T/C community living here.

4. If a commercial ship wanted to use a port of an unrecognized entity does not mean recognition of that entity as a state so therefore cannot be regarded as a violation excluding war-ships of course.

Again live in the North suffer the vision of all of you until there is a balance between the two communities. I rather live here than under Greek administration.
All4114All
Member
Member
 
Posts: 198
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 11:50 am

Postby Get Real! » Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:32 pm

All4114All wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
All4114All wrote:Mind you as you call it illegal state international laws do not stop if an international flag ship wanted to stop in the port of Famagusta but it is the relentless G/C government that threatens the international community to do so.

There’s nothing more irritating than a newbie fool who (1) has serious grammar/syntax issues and (2) can’t get his facts right, to begin his response to a seasoned poster like Kikapu with something belittling like…“Allow me to educate you”! :roll:

As for your “facts” let us educate YOU now regarding…


United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea

http://www.un.org/Depts/los/convention_ ... osindx.htm


Restrictions imposed by the Republic of Cyprus on vessels calling illegally at ports in the occupied areas of Cyprus

http://www.mfa.gov.cy/mfa/mfa2006.nsf/c ... enDocument


Seriously GR.
Law Of The Sea which I know of but thank you for the link:
1. RoC cannot close seaports that it does not control

2.'Finally, the use of seaports in the northern part of Cyprus might be in violation of domestic law of the Republic of Cyprus, as the government closed them for international traffic in 1974. However, under international law, third States are not obliged to comply with Cyprus' law, and there is no prohibition in general international law to use ports which are not under the effective control of the government.' EU Comissioner Rehn.

3.The RoC may try to deter foreign ships from calling at a port in the North by denying that ship to access ports under its control or by threatening the ship or the owner with criminal prosecution in the RoC. Such actions would be a political decision under domestic law. Greek Administration Control but lets forget the T/C community living here.

4. If a commercial ship wanted to use a port of an unrecognized entity does not mean recognition of that entity as a state so therefore cannot be regarded as a violation excluding war-ships of course.

Again live in the North suffer the vision of all of you until there is a balance between the two communities. I rather live here than under Greek administration.

Hey idiot, start doing more READING and less posting...

Article19

Meaning of innocent passage

1. Passage is innocent so long as it is not prejudicial to the peace, good order or security of the coastal State. Such passage shall take place in conformity with this Convention and with other rules of international law.

2. Passage of a foreign ship shall be considered to be prejudicial to the peace, good order or security of the coastal State if in the territorial sea it engages in any of the following activities:

(a) any threat or use of force against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of the coastal State, or in any other manner in violation of the principles of international law embodied in the Charter of the United Nations;
User avatar
Get Real!
Forum Addict
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 48333
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:25 am
Location: Nicosia

PreviousNext

Return to Cyprus Problem

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests