Cyprus-Forum.com

[denizaksulu]

Ahhhhh...reality! You are talking my language now...

I remember a GoC plebisit which demanded ENOSIS with Greece,back in 1949...

What exactly makes you feel right about condemning this fact? A colony voted with a vast majority vote of the island for self determination.

You're struggle against democracy is awesome Bir!

P.s I won't even go into the rest of the stuff about makarios planning and executing a so-called akritas plan. FFs you know better than that.

Bit I must admit, the tenacity of condemning a plan that was never carried out and letting an action of massive military invasion, murder and occupation resulting in mass ethnic cleansing enter the history books as a peace operation is shocking.

I am simply trying to point out that one man's 'self-determination' is another man's 'death sentence'...You thought it was your natural right,we thought it was ours to resist it...We did and out of that the RoC was born...But you didn't give up,kept pushing for your cherished Enosis,and now you must take the consequences like a man...Not like a whinging child,spoilt one at that...

Now you've really got me confused.

The only side I see whinging and living from handout to handout here is the tc side. Like a spoilt child it has transformed 1/3 of its population into civil servants JUST IN CASE they don't get paid directly by turkey whenever its handout day in the ole wild east.

So let's get this straight,
- do you believe that kutchuk and his cronies in govt in 1960 had no plan to abandon the govt at the drop of the hat in order to pursue taksim? A plan just as mysterious as "akritas" was found in the safe of one of the govt ministers after he left office describing in detail the method in which govt was to be abandoned.
- do you believe that TMT had nothing to do with keeping the tc's in enclaves and thus away from their properties and trading and dealing with gcs?
- do you believe that the gc side after accommodating 200,000 refugees in 74 that were basically bankrupt and starting life again from scratch have shown anything but enterprise and purpose in how they rebuild their lives?
-Do you believe that the only reason the occupied areas are under financial and political bankruptcy is purely because of the so-called embargo we've placed?
-do you enjoy as much as I do the sight of tc after tc spending their hard earned money and time in the govt controlled area, eating drinking, shopping, travelling, hospitalising, schooling, pension receiving and job seeking? Would you perhaps agree that all these are not the actions of people that live in fear of gcs and their evil Machiavellian plans?

So (never forgetting the many many stupid and senseless acts and decisions that the gc leadership has committed and continues to commit to this day) I believe the only whinging done here comes from the likes of those that have received more than they were worth on this island and when they finally sold all that off are now demanding for more. The world (and turkey) do not owe the tc's a living and a life in EU middle class comfort. What has happened to your community and it's sense of importance is another subject which I will explain my thoughts on another time.

Excellent post DT.

What is so good about it??? The fact that he blames everything on the victims??? He totally ignores what came first (EOKA before the TMT; The AKRITAS plan before the TC document),and tries to suggest the TCs started the whole mess...Is that what you find excellent??? Or is it how he tried to ignore the effect of the embargoes and the isolations that he minimises by using the adjective "so called"...You people are totally shameless...By YOU I mean those revisionists who are rewriting history to suit themselves...I didnt see the point of replying to DT's post...And I am not sure what good replying to yours will do...You are either totally brainwashed or you are without any moral fibre that you'd do anything to put all the blame on the worst victims of this bloody saga...

Has your mate GR ever produced these above mentioned documents allegedly found in the safe of their ministries? I'd like to see them.

[DT.]

Ahhhhh...reality! You are talking my language now...

I remember a GoC plebisit which demanded ENOSIS with Greece,back in 1949...

What exactly makes you feel right about condemning this fact? A colony voted with a vast majority vote of the island for self determination.

You're struggle against democracy is awesome Bir!

P.s I won't even go into the rest of the stuff about makarios planning and executing a so-called akritas plan. FFs you know better than that.

Bit I must admit, the tenacity of condemning a plan that was never carried out and letting an action of massive military invasion, murder and occupation resulting in mass ethnic cleansing enter the history books as a peace operation is shocking.

I am simply trying to point out that one man's 'self-determination' is another man's 'death sentence'...You thought it was your natural right,we thought it was ours to resist it...We did and out of that the RoC was born...But you didn't give up,kept pushing for your cherished Enosis,and now you must take the consequences like a man...Not like a whinging child,spoilt one at that...

Now you've really got me confused.

The only side I see whinging and living from handout to handout here is the tc side. Like a spoilt child it has transformed 1/3 of its population into civil servants JUST IN CASE they don't get paid directly by turkey whenever its handout day in the ole wild east.

So let's get this straight,
- do you believe that kutchuk and his cronies in govt in 1960 had no plan to abandon the govt at the drop of the hat in order to pursue taksim? A plan just as mysterious as "akritas" was found in the safe of one of the govt ministers after he left office describing in detail the method in which govt was to be abandoned.
- do you believe that TMT had nothing to do with keeping the tc's in enclaves and thus away from their properties and trading and dealing with gcs?
- do you believe that the gc side after accommodating 200,000 refugees in 74 that were basically bankrupt and starting life again from scratch have shown anything but enterprise and purpose in how they rebuild their lives?
-Do you believe that the only reason the occupied areas are under financial and political bankruptcy is purely because of the so-called embargo we've placed?
-do you enjoy as much as I do the sight of tc after tc spending their hard earned money and time in the govt controlled area, eating drinking, shopping, travelling, hospitalising, schooling, pension receiving and job seeking? Would you perhaps agree that all these are not the actions of people that live in fear of gcs and their evil Machiavellian plans?

So (never forgetting the many many stupid and senseless acts and decisions that the gc leadership has committed and continues to commit to this day) I believe the only whinging done here comes from the likes of those that have received more than they were worth on this island and when they finally sold all that off are now demanding for more. The world (and turkey) do not owe the tc's a living and a life in EU middle class comfort. What has happened to your community and it's sense of importance is another subject which I will explain my thoughts on another time.

Excellent post DT.

What is so good about it??? The fact that he blames everything on the victims??? He totally ignores what came first (EOKA before the TMT; The AKRITAS plan before the TC document),and tries to suggest the TCs started the whole mess...Is that what you find excellent??? Or is it how he tried to ignore the effect of the embargoes and the isolations that he minimises by using the adjective "so called"...You people are totally shameless...By YOU I mean those revisionists who are rewriting history to suit themselves...I didnt see the point of replying to DT's post...And I am not sure what good replying to yours will do...You are either totally brainwashed or you are without any moral fibre that you'd do anything to put all the blame on the worst victims of this bloody saga...

Has your mate GR ever produced these above mentioned documents allegedly found in the safe of their ministries? I'd like to see them.

The letter is included in Clerides's book my disposition. The minister in question was the then TC minister of Agriculture.

[denizaksulu]

Ahhhhh...reality! You are talking my language now...

I remember a GoC plebisit which demanded ENOSIS with Greece,back in 1949...

What exactly makes you feel right about condemning this fact? A colony voted with a vast majority vote of the island for self determination.

You're struggle against democracy is awesome Bir!

P.s I won't even go into the rest of the stuff about makarios planning and executing a so-called akritas plan. FFs you know better than that.

Bit I must admit, the tenacity of condemning a plan that was never carried out and letting an action of massive military invasion, murder and occupation resulting in mass ethnic cleansing enter the history books as a peace operation is shocking.

I am simply trying to point out that one man's 'self-determination' is another man's 'death sentence'...You thought it was your natural right,we thought it was ours to resist it...We did and out of that the RoC was born...But you didn't give up,kept pushing for your cherished Enosis,and now you must take the consequences like a man...Not like a whinging child,spoilt one at that...

Now you've really got me confused.

The only side I see whinging and living from handout to handout here is the tc side. Like a spoilt child it has transformed 1/3 of its population into civil servants JUST IN CASE they don't get paid directly by turkey whenever its handout day in the ole wild east.

So let's get this straight,
- do you believe that kutchuk and his cronies in govt in 1960 had no plan to abandon the govt at the drop of the hat in order to pursue taksim? A plan just as mysterious as "akritas" was found in the safe of one of the govt ministers after he left office describing in detail the method in which govt was to be abandoned.
- do you believe that TMT had nothing to do with keeping the tc's in enclaves and thus away from their properties and trading and dealing with gcs?
- do you believe that the gc side after accommodating 200,000 refugees in 74 that were basically bankrupt and starting life again from scratch have shown anything but enterprise and purpose in how they rebuild their lives?
-Do you believe that the only reason the occupied areas are under financial and political bankruptcy is purely because of the so-called embargo we've placed?
-do you enjoy as much as I do the sight of tc after tc spending their hard earned money and time in the govt controlled area, eating drinking, shopping, travelling, hospitalising, schooling, pension receiving and job seeking? Would you perhaps agree that all these are not the actions of people that live in fear of gcs and their evil Machiavellian plans?

So (never forgetting the many many stupid and senseless acts and decisions that the gc leadership has committed and continues to commit to this day) I believe the only whinging done here comes from the likes of those that have received more than they were worth on this island and when they finally sold all that off are now demanding for more. The world (and turkey) do not owe the tc's a living and a life in EU middle class comfort. What has happened to your community and it's sense of importance is another subject which I will explain my thoughts on another time.

Excellent post DT.

What is so good about it??? The fact that he blames everything on the victims??? He totally ignores what came first (EOKA before the TMT; The AKRITAS plan before the TC document),and tries to suggest the TCs started the whole mess...Is that what you find excellent??? Or is it how he tried to ignore the effect of the embargoes and the isolations that he minimises by using the adjective "so called"...You people are totally shameless...By YOU I mean those revisionists who are rewriting history to suit themselves...I didnt see the point of replying to DT's post...And I am not sure what good replying to yours will do...You are either totally brainwashed or you are without any moral fibre that you'd do anything to put all the blame on the worst victims of this bloody saga...

Has your mate GR ever produced these above mentioned documents allegedly found in the safe of their ministries? I'd like to see them.

The letter is included in Clerides's book my disposition. The minister in question was the then TC minister of Agriculture.

I was asking Bir, but thanks. I am surprised I have not seen a copy on cf. Is it because most forumers do not consider Clerides as being 'credible'?

[DT.]

Ahhhhh...reality! You are talking my language now...

I remember a GoC plebisit which demanded ENOSIS with Greece,back in 1949...

What exactly makes you feel right about condemning this fact? A colony voted with a vast majority vote of the island for self determination.

You're struggle against democracy is awesome Bir!

P.s I won't even go into the rest of the stuff about makarios planning and executing a so-called akritas plan. FFs you know better than that.

Bit I must admit, the tenacity of condemning a plan that was never carried out and letting an action of massive military invasion, murder and occupation resulting in mass ethnic cleansing enter the history books as a peace operation is shocking.

I am simply trying to point out that one man's 'self-determination' is another man's 'death sentence'...You thought it was your natural right,we thought it was ours to resist it...We did and out of that the RoC was born...But you didn't give up,kept pushing for your cherished Enosis,and now you must take the consequences like a man...Not like a whinging child,spoilt one at that...

Now you've really got me confused.

The only side I see whinging and living from handout to handout here is the tc side. Like a spoilt child it has transformed 1/3 of its population into civil servants JUST IN CASE they don't get paid directly by turkey whenever its handout day in the ole wild east.

So let's get this straight,
- do you believe that kutchuk and his cronies in govt in 1960 had no plan to abandon the govt at the drop of the hat in order to pursue taksim? A plan just as mysterious as "akritas" was found in the safe of one of the govt ministers after he left office describing in detail the method in which govt was to be abandoned.
- do you believe that TMT had nothing to do with keeping the tc's in enclaves and thus away from their properties and trading and dealing with gcs?
- do you believe that the gc side after accommodating 200,000 refugees in 74 that were basically bankrupt and starting life again from scratch have shown anything but enterprise and purpose in how they rebuild their lives?
-Do you believe that the only reason the occupied areas are under financial and political bankruptcy is purely because of the so-called embargo we've placed?
-do you enjoy as much as I do the sight of tc after tc spending their hard earned money and time in the govt controlled area, eating drinking, shopping, travelling, hospitalising, schooling, pension receiving and job seeking? Would you perhaps agree that all these are not the actions of people that live in fear of gcs and their evil Machiavellian plans?

So (never forgetting the many many stupid and senseless acts and decisions that the gc leadership has committed and continues to commit to this day) I believe the only whinging done here comes from the likes of those that have received more than they were worth on this island and when they finally sold all that off are now demanding for more. The world (and turkey) do not owe the tc's a living and a life in EU middle class comfort. What has happened to your community and it's sense of importance is another subject which I will explain my thoughts on another time.

Excellent post DT.

What is so good about it??? The fact that he blames everything on the victims??? He totally ignores what came first (EOKA before the TMT; The AKRITAS plan before the TC document),and tries to suggest the TCs started the whole mess...Is that what you find excellent??? Or is it how he tried to ignore the effect of the embargoes and the isolations that he minimises by using the adjective "so called"...You people are totally shameless...By YOU I mean those revisionists who are rewriting history to suit themselves...I didnt see the point of replying to DT's post...And I am not sure what good replying to yours will do...You are either totally brainwashed or you are without any moral fibre that you'd do anything to put all the blame on the worst victims of this bloody saga...

Has your mate GR ever produced these above mentioned documents allegedly found in the safe of their ministries? I'd like to see them.

The letter is included in Clerides's book my disposition. The minister in question was the then TC minister of Agriculture.

I was asking Bir, but thanks. I am surprised I have not seen a copy on cf. Is it because most forumers do not consider Clerides as being 'credible'?

It is funny that people like bananiot who has quoted clerides to death when reminding us about the mistakes the Gcs made would probably consider this as something that lacks credibility.

[denizaksulu]

Ahhhhh...reality! You are talking my language now...

I remember a GoC plebisit which demanded ENOSIS with Greece,back in 1949...

What exactly makes you feel right about condemning this fact? A colony voted with a vast majority vote of the island for self determination.

You're struggle against democracy is awesome Bir!

P.s I won't even go into the rest of the stuff about makarios planning and executing a so-called akritas plan. FFs you know better than that.

Bit I must admit, the tenacity of condemning a plan that was never carried out and letting an action of massive military invasion, murder and occupation resulting in mass ethnic cleansing enter the history books as a peace operation is shocking.

I am simply trying to point out that one man's 'self-determination' is another man's 'death sentence'...You thought it was your natural right,we thought it was ours to resist it...We did and out of that the RoC was born...But you didn't give up,kept pushing for your cherished Enosis,and now you must take the consequences like a man...Not like a whinging child,spoilt one at that...

Now you've really got me confused.

The only side I see whinging and living from handout to handout here is the tc side. Like a spoilt child it has transformed 1/3 of its population into civil servants JUST IN CASE they don't get paid directly by turkey whenever its handout day in the ole wild east.

So let's get this straight,
- do you believe that kutchuk and his cronies in govt in 1960 had no plan to abandon the govt at the drop of the hat in order to pursue taksim? A plan just as mysterious as "akritas" was found in the safe of one of the govt ministers after he left office describing in detail the method in which govt was to be abandoned.
- do you believe that TMT had nothing to do with keeping the tc's in enclaves and thus away from their properties and trading and dealing with gcs?
- do you believe that the gc side after accommodating 200,000 refugees in 74 that were basically bankrupt and starting life again from scratch have shown anything but enterprise and purpose in how they rebuild their lives?
-Do you believe that the only reason the occupied areas are under financial and political bankruptcy is purely because of the so-called embargo we've placed?
-do you enjoy as much as I do the sight of tc after tc spending their hard earned money and time in the govt controlled area, eating drinking, shopping, travelling, hospitalising, schooling, pension receiving and job seeking? Would you perhaps agree that all these are not the actions of people that live in fear of gcs and their evil Machiavellian plans?

So (never forgetting the many many stupid and senseless acts and decisions that the gc leadership has committed and continues to commit to this day) I believe the only whinging done here comes from the likes of those that have received more than they were worth on this island and when they finally sold all that off are now demanding for more. The world (and turkey) do not owe the tc's a living and a life in EU middle class comfort. What has happened to your community and it's sense of importance is another subject which I will explain my thoughts on another time.

Excellent post DT.

What is so good about it??? The fact that he blames everything on the victims??? He totally ignores what came first (EOKA before the TMT; The AKRITAS plan before the TC document),and tries to suggest the TCs started the whole mess...Is that what you find excellent??? Or is it how he tried to ignore the effect of the embargoes and the isolations that he minimises by using the adjective "so called"...You people are totally shameless...By YOU I mean those revisionists who are rewriting history to suit themselves...I didnt see the point of replying to DT's post...And I am not sure what good replying to yours will do...You are either totally brainwashed or you are without any moral fibre that you'd do anything to put all the blame on the worst victims of this bloody saga...

Has your mate GR ever produced these above mentioned documents allegedly found in the safe of their ministries? I'd like to see them.

The letter is included in Clerides's book my disposition. The minister in question was the then TC minister of Agriculture.

I was asking Bir, but thanks. I am surprised I have not seen a copy on cf. Is it because most forumers do not consider Clerides as being 'credible'?

It is funny that people like bananiot who has quoted clerides to death when reminding us about the mistakes the Gcs made would probably consider this as something that lacks credibility.

Perhaps either of you could do the honours and reproduce it. Either way it matters not as we have to see where we go from here. But then we have to take regards to your mates wish for credible evidence. We could not aSK HIM, HE WOULD MERELY TELL US TO FUCK OFF OR GET OUR OWN EVIDENCE. i AM SURE YOU WOULD NOT DO THAT.

[boulio]

deniz i found this concerning DT'S comment:

http://books.google.com/books?id=LZXbg3 ... er&f=false

[boulio]

his name it seems was fazil plumer

[denizaksulu]

his name it seems was fazil plumer

Oh him!! He was a family friend.

Thanks, I will read the link tonight.

[denizaksulu]

his name it seems was fazil plumer

Oh him!! He was a family friend.

Thanks, I will read the link tonight.

I don't know who wrote this book yet, but page 27 is all revealing. Nothing new to me though.

I am not sure that this is the Clerides book but the subject matter is only reffered to in passing. What happened to these 'documents'? Hmm, no one knows.