Cyprus-Forum.com

[EPSILON]

My point is not the crookedness etc of the AKP, but the Greek media stance to a perceived but obviously undeserved diplomatic capability of the Turks.

These cables reveal a bunch of clowns playing at reviving the Ottoman empire and a surprising lack of diplomatic sophistication. Proposing a return to the time of the pashas is obviously not going to fly with nations that fought to rid themselves of the Ottomans, any fool would have known that, especially one that prides himself on profound knowledge of the Balkans and the Middle East. Apparently that knowledge is not profound enough.

The real cability of Turkish deplomacy-partricularly in relation to the Greek matters, would be much greater in case the missing part of the famous Greek trio was succeeded to be in charge. I mean G Papantreou (WITH HIS GREAT FOREIGN MINISTER DROUTSAS)- Christofias and Mpakogianni. Fortunatetly,for all of us ,the last of the trio is presently out of the scean.

If this certain trio be in power at same time be sure that CB/Aegean matters etc will be solved in few months. Of course always...in our favor!!!???

If only Samaras and Pangalos got along....

I was speaking about the good scenario for Turks not the scenario of chaos for us.!!!!

[BirKibrisli]

More evidence that will sadden the admirers of the Neo Ottomans in Greece.

Ever since Davut's book on his visions of Neo Ottomman grandeur was published here last year, scores of Greek commentators have been writing glowing comments about Turkeish diplomacy. In the end it seems the Turks are no different than other Balkanites, well not on all things anyway. The Turks manage to have infinite cynicism and accept as normal such things as multiple swiss accounts and other vices in their leaders and keep their mouths shut.

This wikileaks thing is a lot bigger than it looks. Cannot wait for all the documents to be revealed.

Erdoğan is a crook? The AKP is an Islamist party? My goodness me, the revelations never cease.

[Tim Drayton]

More evidence that will sadden the admirers of the Neo Ottomans in Greece.

Ever since Davut's book on his visions of Neo Ottomman grandeur was published here last year, scores of Greek commentators have been writing glowing comments about Turkeish diplomacy. In the end it seems the Turks are no different than other Balkanites, well not on all things anyway. The Turks manage to have infinite cynicism and accept as normal such things as multiple swiss accounts and other vices in their leaders and keep their mouths shut.

This wikileaks thing is a lot bigger than it looks. Cannot wait for all the documents to be revealed.

Erdoğan is a crook? The AKP is an Islamist party? My goodness me, the revelations never cease.

I was seriously contemplating starting another thread wıth a huge 'revelation' such as "Turkey has renamed Constantinople Istanbul - shock, horror", but thought the better of it.

I have started reading Hanef Avcı's book. Now these are indeed revelations, even though nothing comes as a great surprise. I think this book will interest you if you can hold of it 'down under'.

[Hermes]

Erdoğan is a crook? The AKP is an Islamist party? My goodness me, the revelations never cease.

Well it's come as a surprise to the Turkish opposition, media and public who were apparently unaware of any of these accusations of corruption. You have to remember that the AKP swept to power on an anti-corruption agenda which probably accounts for Erdogan's hysterical reaction to these allegations.

Further, I've certainly not heard Erdogan ridiculed by American diplomats before for his "unbridled ambition stemming from the belief God has anointed him to lead Turkey." In fact, one of the satisfying things about the WikiLeaks documents is the extent of American frustration and cynicism at the delusions of Turkey's leaders and their ambitions. Hardly the spectacle of a great power that Turkey likes to portray on the world stage.

As for being an Islamist Party, there is a difference between Erdogan's proclaimed notion of the AKP as little more than a Turkish version of the Christian Democrats, and the accusation suggested in the WikiLeaks documents that the AKP is in fact a hard-line Islamist party run by a bunch of narrow-minded fundamentalists. This is emphatically not the image that Erdogan likes to portray to the West and it's good that this is out in the open. There are many in the West who have been taken in by Erdogan and the AKP. It is important to show them for what they are: a bunch of religious nutjobs with imperial delusions. In their own small way, the WikiLeaks cables are doing their bit to help undermine Erdogan and his cronies. Not a bad thing, surely?

[Hermes]

Tim,

One more thing. Have you read this bit?

US diplomats are likewise unflinching when it comes to Erdogan's advisor and foreign minister, Ahmet Davutoglu. They say he understands little about politics outside of Ankara. They see this as unfortunate, because they want to see Turkey join the EU -- but they don't believe it will ever happen. In order to make progress toward EU accession, the US ambassador wrote, the government must "hire a couple thousand people skilled in English or other major EU languages and up to the bureaucratic demands of interfacing with the Eurocrats." The AKP, write US diplomats, had thus far employed mostly confidants from the Sunni brotherhoods.

Some AKP politicians, according to a US assessment, support Turkish membership in the EU for "murky" and "muddled" reasons, for example because they believe Turkey must spread Islam in Europe. A US dispatch from late 2004 reports that a member of a leading AKP think tank said that Turkey's role is "to take back Andalusia and avenge the defeat at the siege of Vienna in 1683."

Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu largely shares this viewpoint and the Americans are alarmed by his imperialistic tone. In a summary of a speech by Davutoglu delivered in Sarajevo in January 2010, the US ambassador wrote: "His thesis: the Balkans, Caucasus and Middle East were all better off when under Ottoman control or influence; peace and progress prevailed. Alas the region has been ravaged by division and war ever since.... However, now Turkey is back, ready to lead or even unite. (Davutoglu: 'We will re-establish this (Ottoman) Balkan')."

Now this is the idiot Davutoglu who some Europeans think is some kind of diplomatic genius. Not the Yanks who see him for what he is.

Now tell me that this isn't good stuff to have out there...

[Kikapu]

I dedicate this song to "poor" Erdogan.!

I'm not so sure that these "leaks" were not deliberate leaks.!

[Me Ed]

More evidence that will sadden the admirers of the Neo Ottomans in Greece.

Ever since Davut's book on his visions of Neo Ottomman grandeur was published here last year, scores of Greek commentators have been writing glowing comments about Turkeish diplomacy. In the end it seems the Turks are no different than other Balkanites, well not on all things anyway. The Turks manage to have infinite cynicism and accept as normal such things as multiple swiss accounts and other vices in their leaders and keep their mouths shut.

This wikileaks thing is a lot bigger than it looks. Cannot wait for all the documents to be revealed.

Erdo?an is a crook? The AKP is an Islamist party? My goodness me, the revelations never cease.

I thought that making money through interest under islamoshit law was worth a chopping off a hand or foot.

This hypocrite should be stoned to death.

[kurupetos]

There's a rumour Erdogan's a Jew.

[boulio]

A US dispatch from late 2004 reports that a member of a leading AKP think tank said that Turkey's role is "to take back Andalusia and avenge the defeat at the siege of Vienna in 1683."

Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu largely shares this viewpoint and the Americans are alarmed by his imperialistic tone. In a summary of a speech by Davutoglu delivered in Sarajevo in January 2010, the US ambassador wrote: "His thesis: the Balkans, Caucasus and Middle East were all better off when under Ottoman control or influence; peace and progress prevailed. Alas the region has been ravaged by division and war ever since.... However, now Turkey is back, ready to lead or even unite. (Davutoglu: 'We will re-establish this (Ottoman) Balkan')."

idont know if this part is scary or funny.Avenge the defeat at the siege of vienna?

someones out to lunch.like my grandmother from giannina used to say 'pera vrehi"

[Get Real!]

There's a rumour Erdogan's a Jew.

A gay Jew even...