Cyprus-Forum.com

[boomerang]

Diplomatic Cables Reveal US Doubts about Turkey's Government
AFP
US President Barack Obama with Turkey's Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan at the recent G-20 summit in Seoul: The diplomatic cables reveal that US diplomats have grave doubts about Turkey's dependability.

The leaked diplomatic cables reveal that US diplomats are skeptical about Turkey's dependability as a partner. The leadership in Ankara is depicted as divided and permeated by Islamists.

US diplomats have grave doubts about Turkey's dependability. Secret or confidential cables from the US Embassy in Ankara describe Islamist tendencies in the government of Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan.


The US diplomats' verdict on the NATO partner with the second biggest army in the alliance is devastating. The Turkish leadership is depicted as divided, and Erdogan's advisers, as well as Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu, are portrayed as having little understanding of politics beyond Ankara.

The Americans are also worried about Davutoglu's alleged neo-Ottoman visions. A high-ranking government adviser warned in discussions, quoted by the US diplomats, that Davutoglu would use his Islamist influence on Erdogan, describing him as "exceptionally dangerous." According to the US document, another adviser to the ruling AKP party remarked, probably ironically, that Turkey wanted "to take back Andalusia and avenge the defeat at the siege of Vienna in 1683."

The US diplomats write that many leading figures in the AKP were members of a Muslim fraternity and that Erdogan had appointed Islamist bankers to influential positions. He gets his information almost exclusively from newspapers with close links to Islamists, they reported. The prime minister, the cables continue, has surrounded himself with an "iron ring of sycophantic (but contemptuous) advisors" and presents himself as the "Tribune of Anatolia."

Editor's note: DER SPIEGEL's full reporting on the WikiLeaks US diplomatic cables will be published first in the German-language edition of the magazine, which will be available on Monday to subscribers and at newsstands in Germany and Europe. SPIEGEL ONLINE International will publish extended excerpts of SPIEGEL's reporting in English in a series that will launch on Monday.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,731590,00.html

meedless to say when it comes to the tc leadership and from a few whiners in this forum, the same doubts exist...could this be a genetic shared disorderr?...

[Piratis]

This is what I wrote in 2008:

...
When I talk about change of balance of power I don't mean that a war will necessarily be needed. There are many examples during our history that rulers gave up foreign possessions without a war because they realized they didn't have the power to keep them anymore. I will just give to you a recent example, the one of Latvia, who was liberated from USSR although there is a 30% Russian population in it which would preferred if Latvia remained part of Russia.

Also, if war is needed, I never talk about a 1 on 1 war of Cyprus VS Turkey, since no matter how much the balance of power will change Cyprus will never have the power to win such war. I am talking about a bigger regional or world war, like those that are made a couple of times each century or so, where Turkey and Cyprus will be involved. Greece for example won back Rhodes and the Dodecaneese after WWII when Italy which occupied those islands until then, found herself on the loosing side of that war. Again, there are many such examples in our history.

In the future, with Turkey torn between Secularists and Islamists, as well as between Turks and Kurds, I find it very possible for Turkey to find itself in the loosing side of such regional/world war.

I believe that if Islam takes over Turkey and at the same time the Turks remain as arrogant as they are today, plus the fact that you have the much more willing to comply Kurds sitting on a ton of oil, and if you consider the anti-Islam sentiment that keeps rising in Europe and the USA, then many, currently unpredictable by most, things can happen in our region. The change in balance of power that I talk about is not just words. It is something that keeps happening, and will happen again.
...

It is obvious that no real solution can come out of the negotiations and therefore only with a change in the balance of power we can gain back our lands.

I believe that the Americans will do what they can to keep Turkey as a close dependable ally. The Americans will use the "carrot and stick" method to keep Turkey as their close partner, and this is why currently and in the short term future Cyprus will receive a lot of pressure as the Americans will be trying to please the Turks.

But it seems that the Americans are starting to realize that the Turks are too arrogant to accept to be their "dogs", and that Islam is more powerful in Turkey than what they thought. If the Turks continue in the same direction then I see the balance of power changing in the not very distant future.

What we should do meanwhile is to resist the pressure to sign away our lands to the Turks. Today it might not mean that much that we legally have sovereignty over the whole island, but under a different balance of power this fact will mean a lot and will make the liberation of the north part of Cyprus much easier.

Another thing we should do is to do our part to keep Turkey out of EU and help end the accession talks as soon as possible. This is not something we can do alone, but fortunately we will get a lot of help on this from many other EU countries. The sooner the accession talks fail, the sooner the Americans will realize that they can not "save" Turkey, and the sooner the balance of power will change that could result in a united Cyprus and a divided Turkey (with the liberation of Kurdistan).

[Tim Drayton]

Gosh! The AKP is a party of political Islam! Has anybody else out there got any more astonishing revelations for us?

[Nikitas]

No astonishing revelations here Tim, just what any person with common sense would have concluded when he reads Davutoglu and examines his "vision".

Any guy who tries to single handedly redraw the map of Europe in the year 2010 is a nutter. That is what the cables confirm.

This cable should enlighten those in this forum who described Davutoglu as a "genius".

[Tim Drayton]

No astonishing revelations here Tim, just what any person with common sense would have concluded when he reads Davutoglu and examines his "vision".

Any guy who tries to single handedly redraw the map of Europe in the year 2010 is a nutter. That is what the cables confirm.

This cable should enlighten those in this forum who described Davutoglu as a "genius".

Precisely, so why has the USA granted permanent residence to Fethullah Gülen?

[boomerang]

No astonishing revelations here Tim, just what any person with common sense would have concluded when he reads Davutoglu and examines his "vision".

Any guy who tries to single handedly redraw the map of Europe in the year 2010 is a nutter. That is what the cables confirm.

This cable should enlighten those in this forum who described Davutoglu as a "genius".

Precisely, so why has the USA granted permanent residence to Fethullah Gülen?

coz tim as it stands right now gulen serves US interests what ever they might be...as for tomorrow, who knows...the US looks only after numero uno....

[Tim Drayton]

No astonishing revelations here Tim, just what any person with common sense would have concluded when he reads Davutoglu and examines his "vision".

Any guy who tries to single handedly redraw the map of Europe in the year 2010 is a nutter. That is what the cables confirm.

This cable should enlighten those in this forum who described Davutoglu as a "genius".

Precisely, so why has the USA granted permanent residence to Fethullah Gülen?

coz tim as it stands right now gulen serves US interests what ever they might be...as for tomorrow, who knows...the US looks only after numero uno....

You are 100% right, as ever, but somehow the right hand does not seem to know what the left hand is doing.

[boomerang]

Leaked documents reveal tension between EU and Turkey
ANDREW WILLIS

Today @ 09:46 CET

EUOBSERVER / BRUSSELS - Leaked US State Department documents on Sunday (28 November) make multiple references to EU accession state Turkey, painting an unflattering description of Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan's circle of advisers and highlighting the country's frustrations with French resistance to its EU membership.


Mr Erdogan [left] was described by US diplomats as ill-informed (Photo: European Commission)
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Comment article
The documents, released by Wikileaks and published in an array of international newspapers, also underline Turkey's feeling of being cheated over recent Nato appointments and its belief that the EU's police training effort in Afghanistan (Eupol) has been a complete failure.

While Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan is portrayed by American officials as a "perfectionist workaholic" but ill-informed, American perceptions of his support team are even less flattering, describing his advisers and foreign minister Ahmet Davutoglu as having little understanding of politics beyond Ankara.

Criticism of Mr Davutoglu included dispatches describing him as "dangerous" and having a "neo-Ottoman" vision.

Ankara's frustrations over the pace of EU membership talks are also evident in the leaked embassy cables, as are French fears over the predominantly Muslim state joining the 27-member union.

During US Assistant Secretary Phillip Gordon's visit to Paris in September 2009, he met with a number of French policy-makers including Elysee diplomatic advisor Jean-David Levitte, who said France still favoured a "privileged partnership" for Turkey rather than full EU membership.

He emphasised however that France was not preventing EU accession negotiations from moving forward in chapters where full membership was not pre-supposed.

Mr Gordon said he felt Turkey had become trapped in a vicious cycle, with Ankara failing to complete necessary reforms because the Turks do not believe that their EU candidacy will be allowed to progress, as indicated in polls.

The French official appeared to agree on this point, but indicated that Paris hoped Turkey itself would eventually decide against full EU membership. In a worst case scenario, France would block Turkish membership if all the negotiating chapters were completed by holding a referendum on the subject, he said.

A cable from foreign Turkish under-secretary Feridun Sinirlioglu to US under-secretary William Burns highlights Ankara's displeasure over recent Nato appointments.

Mr Sinirlioglu recalled a recent deal that included an understanding that a qualified Turk would be considered for Nato assistant secretary general. Instead, he said, a German of questionable merit was selected.

"We suspect a deal between Rasmussen and Merkel," he said. "We let [former Danish prime minister Anders Fogh] Rasmussen have secretary general, because we trusted you."

In the same tense conversation, Turkish ambassador Tacan Ildem, who recently concluded an assignment as Turkey's Nato permanent representative, declared the EU's police training effort in Afghanistan (Eupol) to be a failure. He added that the EU's criticism of Turkey's unwillingness to work directly with Eupol is unjustified.

He argued that since Turkey does not have a security agreement with the EU and is excluded from the European Security and Defense Policy (ESDP), the government lacks a legal basis on which to co-operate with Eupol. "We would like the EU to involve us not as a third country, but, in view of our accumulated rights," as a candidate for membership, he said.

http://euobserver.com/9/31372

and today ahmet is on a plane to the US...man can anyone imagine the butt jokes currently doing the rounds in the US?...

[boomerang]

Turkish FM says Plato, Gandhi influenced his intellectual thinking
Davutoglu has said his thinking as an intellectual was influenced by, among others, the classical Greek philosopher Plato and Indian leader Mahatma Gandhi.
Sunday, 28 November 2010 19:05
World Bulletin / News Desk

Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu, named one of the top 100 global thinkers by the influential US magazine Foreign Policy has said his thinking as an intellectual was influenced by, among others, the classical Greek philosopher Plato and Indian leader Mahatma Gandhi.

Davutoğlu, who is ranked seventh in Foreign Policy's list of the top 100 intellectuals in 2010, is now in Washington, D.C., to attend an event organized by the magazine and have talks with senior US officials, including Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.

In an interview with Foreign Policy, Davutoğlu said Plato “has interesting things to say about ideals and practice.” He said Plato was a “master” for Turkish scholars as well. “He is not only a Greek thinker; he is our thinker, because if you read the works of Ottoman scholars of the 16th century, all of these Greek scholars were addressed as ‘our masters.' So, for us, they represent the history of all traditions, and theirs are the values of humanity,” he said.

Davutoğlu praised Gandhi, the leading political and ideological leader of India during the Indian independence movement, as “a practitioner and a visionary trying to use new and unconventional methods to achieve political objectives.”

Davutoğlu, the architect of Turkey's policy of “zero problems with neighbors,” was included in the list “for being the brains behind Turkey's global reawakening.”

Davutoğlu, the architect of Turkey's policy of “zero problems with neighbors,” was included in the list “for being the brains behind Turkey's global reawakening.”

i am not sure whether to cry or laugh..what the hell i am gonna have a long laugh...

[Lit]

If the Turks continue in the same direction then I see the balance of power changing in the not very distant future.

Indeed my friend. New strains have emerged in US-Turkey relations with Erdogan's trip to Lebanon where he threatened Israel. Sure that speech went down well with the Lebanese even viewing Erdogan as a hero but that speech did not play well in the States with many in the congress, notably Republicans, expressing hostility toward Turkey. Then you have the NATO summit fiasco where Turkey unwillingly supported the NATO shield plan but is hesitant on hosting part of the radar system. Plus Washington still has no ambassador to Ankara and will not have one in the near future thanks to big gains a few weeks ago by the Republican party.

It just keeps getting better and better thanks to Erdogan.