Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kikapu]

You are asking for the impossible,Hermes...Turkey will never leave Cyprus until there is a comprehensive and final solution...Cyprus is a matter of national honour for the Turks.

Yes, like the Armenian and Christian genocides in Anatolia are a case of Turkish "national honour". We know how Turks think. That is why they have to show evidence that they no longer think like Turks to join the EU. It is a civilizing process. Unless Turks withdraw from Cyprus and show commitment to international and moral law they cannot be accepted into the EU. Turkish "national honour" over the invasion and ethnic cleansing of an innocent civilian population can go fuck itself.

Left to their own devices, history shows that Turks will show no remorse or moral responsibility for their crimes. That is why the Europeans know that Turkey needs to show evidence of change first. We cannot rely on Turks eventually developing a "conscience". They must be forced to choose. National (dis) honor or the EU. The pathetic thing is that Turks have to be forced to do the right thing. It says it all really.

Turkey has stated many times if forced to choose they will choose the TRNC over the EU, the EU is a dieing old man.

only if that was true and the turks stopped going around kissing asses...never seen a country trying to kiss so many asses just to get in the club only to be told time and time again stop kissing asses and get on with the requirements...

Better than blackmailing your way in.

Read the reasons as to why the RoC was allowed to join the EU, VP.!

Alan Meale (Mansfield, Labour)

Let us look at why Cyprus was allowed to join the European Union, a move that was led by Britain. A British Government argued that Cyprus should be in Europe because it would have been ridiculous and folly to keep it out of Europe. We all know what Cyprus was at the time of its entry. It was being treated as an offshore island by many, with 7,500 companies on its shores. It had its own stock exchange and an independent link into the European banking system. It was probably best placed for trade with the old eastern bloc, which most of Europe was not. It had a fine relationship with areas of the middle east and an outstanding trading relationship with China and Africa, which many EU countries did not have. As I understand from scientific texts, Cyprus is one of only four places on the planet that have windows into space, and, communications being so important for the future, it was important that that was kept in the European sphere, rather than being independent outside it. If anyone has any doubt about that, they will recall that it is for that reason that Britain's listening and searching stations are still situated on the island.

Last, but not least, there is the importance of oil and gas, not only for Europe, but for the rest of the world. People will have to consider the importance of the European oil and gas pipeline, which is now being driven down to the shores of Greece, where further pipelines will be fixed that go across to Limassol in the republic. Similarly, pipelines will be coming down to join the central European pipeline from the Caspian sea, and they will link in to guarantee oil and gas for Europe. Cyprus will shortly become the gas station of Europe, and possibly the world, which is another reason why it was important that it came into the EU.

Now read the reasons as to why Turkey won't be allowed in the EU, unless changes are made, VP.

David Burrowes (Enfield, Southgate, Conservative)

I am grateful to my hon. Friend, who makes an important point. It is not simply the case that Cyprus is standing in the way of EU membership; it is up to Turkey to recognise that it must remove the army and that the island needs to be reunified. Turkey must take those steps before it can move towards EU accession. The European Commission's report also noted the Commission's assessment that freedom of expression needs to be strengthened in Turkey, both in law and in practice. It highlighted the fact that shortcomings remain in the free exercise of religion, and reference was made to disputes with neighbours, including Armenia. Those are other factors that go beyond Cyprus. It is important to get the facts right when making the argument about the accession process.

Also read who are entitled to "political equality" in a Unified Cyprus, VP.

David Lidington (Minister of State (Europe and NATO), Foreign and Commonwealth Office; Aylesbury, Conservative)

Let there be no doubt that the United Kingdom Government are committed to supporting the ongoing settlement negotiations under the auspices of the United Nations, and particularly of Alexander Downer, which are aimed at achieving a settlement based on a bi-zonal, bi-communal federation with political equality. That political equality must be accorded not only-although most obviously-to the Greek and Turkish Cypriot communities, but also to the smaller minorities on the island. My hon. Friend the Member for Enfield, Southgate, chairman of the British-Cyprus all-party group, reminded us of the Maronite community. The position of the Maronite community and its members' entitlement to cultural and religious freedom of expression will be fully resolved only by a comprehensive settlement that reunites the island. The Government support the resolution passed by the Council of Europe in July 2008 that called for additional measures to
"support the revitalisation and promotion of the cultural, religious and linguistic heritage of the Maronites,".

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/whall/?id ... -16c.212.0

And these people are?

The British Government's Members of Parliament, both Conservatives and Labour, and an EU member country.!

its called double standards

It's called doing what is in the best interest of the EU and all of it's citizens, to live by the Rule of Law, True Democracy, Human Rights, International Laws, and their own club rules, The EU Principles. Accept them, don't accept them, it's up to you. Just don't expect the EU to change their own Principles to accommodate your 16th century mentality.!

you should know all about that, as you have no issues selling your so called people out.

You can't help being a bitch, can you.??

That's what happens when you sleep with Fascists dogs.!

If there's anyone who is selling out anyone, it is the Fascist NeoPartitionists who are selling out their own people by trying to exterminate their own unique Turkish Cypriot identity, culture, language, customs, so to became part of the Anatolian settlers. If that was your desire, you should have went straight from the UK to Turkey, since you were so eager to return to your roots.!

Oh, I forgot, your "roots" does not want you the way you are and only sees you as an uncultured peasant, so you must convert to become an Anatolian to be accepted. It is people like you who are selling out the TCs, and the evidence is very clear for everyone to see.!

[Viewpoint]

Kikapu

e British Government's Members of Parliament, both Conservatives and Labour, and an EU member country.!

The same people you run into the ground when you dont like what they say eg Jack Straw or Gunter Verheugen, you change with the wind.

It's called doing what is in the best interest of the EU and all of it's citizens, to live by the Rule of Law, True Democracy, Human Rights, International Laws, and their own club rules, The EU Principles. Accept them, don't accept them, it's up to you. Just don't expect the EU to change their own Principles to accommodate your 16th century mentality.!

Thats the new name for it, in reality its called the opportunity to apply double standards and move the goal posts to avoid being found out to be wrong or a liar, sooner or later Turkey will part ways with the EU and little ol south Cyprus can kiss its EU leverage goodbye.

You can't help being a bitch, can you.??

That's what happens when you sleep with Fascists dogs.!

If there's anyone who is selling out anyone, it is the Fascist NeoPartitionists who are selling out their own people by trying to exterminate their own unique Turkish Cypriot identity, culture, language, customs, so to became part of the Anatolian settlers. If that was your desire, you should have went straight from the UK to Turkey, since you were so eager to return to your roots.!

Oh, I forgot, your "roots" does not want you the way you are and only sees you as an uncultured peasant, so you must convert to become an Anatolian to be accepted. It is people like you who are selling out the TCs, and the evidence is very clear for everyone to see.!

No you are and will always sell us out to the GCs full stop, no ifs and buts everyone can see you for what you are an GC arse licking traitor.

[BirKibrisli]

Turkey has stated many times if forced to choose they will choose the TRNC over the EU, the EU is a dieing old man.

Then they should withdraw their application to join the EU. Why haven't they done so? What are they waiting for?

I will tell you what they are waiting for,Hermes...
They want to make sure the Turkish military is well under civilian authority,and they want to change Turkey's political system to a Federal Republic run by an executive President...Then they will withdraw their application,and get on with building the Federal Democratic Islamic Republic of Turkey...The trnc will be one of the federal states!!! Clear enough???

Then why on earth are you arguing that Cyprus should lift its objections to Turkey's EU accession and allow a Turkey under the AKP into Europe? Why should we allow a fanatically Islamist Turkey into the EU and risk Turkey exporting its brand of Islamism and its migrants and slums to European cities? How would this benefit Europe never mind bring about the re-unification of Cyprus?

If Turks in Germany cannot integrate because of the rise of religious fundamentalism then what does this tell you about the chances of Turkey as a nation integrating in Europe?

Surely, if the AKP is essentially a vehicle for advancing a radical Islamist agenda. and Turkey has became less Western, then Europe should be engaging with the US to remove the AKP from power and strengthening alternative civil and democratic forces in Turkey. The ROC will only benefit from the resulting implosion.

There you go again,looking for ways to get your own way...
My point is simple,if you want a solution you need to do everything in your power to make Turkey's entry into the EU possible and easy...The AKP is not yet strong enough to reject the EU outright...Once they are in the EU,they will be more amenable to a solution for Cyprus...At the moment Turkey is using Cyprus to stall the EU accession talks,till they feel strong enough,secure enough,to tell the EU to go to hell...When that point comes you and kiss goodbye to 37% of Cyprus...And the TCs can kiss goodbye to their Cypriotness...You might think it is worth the price,to teach the pesty TCs a big lesson...That is up to you to decide..I can only issue warnings...

[BirKibrisli]

You are a mother ,Oracle..You ought to know...There are some children you can control by threads of punishment,but there are others who need to be treated in other ways if you want them to do what you want...Nations are not much different..That is all I am saying...

Your example above will not work,because you are demanding it...You have to find subtler ways to make Turkey believe they are the ones who are offering it to you...See the difference???

Well we are agreed that Turkey is a dangerous belligerent child but I doubt it is the kind of obnoxious brat that will be influenced by kind words and tolerance of its actions. Its behaviour shows signs of delinquency, paranoia and borderline psychosis. In these instances a clear and disciplined restraint is the only course of action. Otherwise we are looking at an exclusion order or a period in jail. It should certainly be electronically tagged and put under curfew as a first step.

The problem is there is no one capable of effectively enforcing the kind of discipline you are talking about...In the absence of that you need to employ other more creative means of containment...That is my whole point...

[BirKibrisli]

You are a mother ,Oracle..You ought to know...There are some children you can control by threads of punishment,but there are others who need to be treated in other ways if you want them to do what you want...Nations are not much different..That is all I am saying...

Your example above will not work,because you are demanding it...You have to find subtler ways to make Turkey believe they are the ones who are offering it to you...See the difference???

Well we are agreed that Turkey is a dangerous belligerent child but I doubt it is the kind of obnoxious brat that will be influenced by kind words and tolerance of its actions. Its behaviour shows signs of delinquency, paranoia and borderline psychosis. In these instances a clear and disciplined restraint is the only course of action. Otherwise we are looking at an exclusion order or a period in jail. It should certainly be electronically tagged and put under curfew as a first step.

The problem is this 'belligerent child' is too big and strong... Pushed a bit too hard,She might decide to break all the rules,smash her parents, and run away to bigger and better pastures...

sounds like ur egging this spoilt, overgrown brat on. how irresponsible can u get?

Put a sock in it,Malapapa...I am only warning of the dangers to come if you insist on dealing with our subject in the irresponsible way you have been...And you know it.

[Kikapu]

Kikapu

e British Government's Members of Parliament, both Conservatives and Labour, and an EU member country.!

The same people you run into the ground when you dont like what they say eg Jack Straw or Gunter Verheugen, you change with the wind.

It's called doing what is in the best interest of the EU and all of it's citizens, to live by the Rule of Law, True Democracy, Human Rights, International Laws, and their own club rules, The EU Principles. Accept them, don't accept them, it's up to you. Just don't expect the EU to change their own Principles to accommodate your 16th century mentality.!

Thats the new name for it, in reality its called the opportunity to apply double standards and move the goal posts to avoid being found out to be wrong or a liar, sooner or later Turkey will part ways with the EU and little ol south Cyprus can kiss its EU leverage goodbye.

You can't help being a bitch, can you.??

That's what happens when you sleep with Fascists dogs.!

If there's anyone who is selling out anyone, it is the Fascist NeoPartitionists who are selling out their own people by trying to exterminate their own unique Turkish Cypriot identity, culture, language, customs, so to became part of the Anatolian settlers. If that was your desire, you should have went straight from the UK to Turkey, since you were so eager to return to your roots.!

Oh, I forgot, your "roots" does not want you the way you are and only sees you as an uncultured peasant, so you must convert to become an Anatolian to be accepted. It is people like you who are selling out the TCs, and the evidence is very clear for everyone to see.!

No you are and will always sell us out to the GCs full stop, no ifs and buts everyone can see you for what you are an GC arse licking traitor.

I don't see the British Government supporting what Jack Straw said recently, regarding partition. In fact, during the debates, they said these below. As for that idiot, Gunter Verheugen who made promises to the TCs on his own which he could not deliver, even the EU does not mention his name again or the Annan Plan. You should direct your complains to him, the idiot, Gunter Verheugen for failing you and not towards me.!

Once again, you are showing us how the TMT would have acted on decent TCs in the days gone by who wanted to live in peace in Cyprus with the GCs. You are no different from the TMT, that you will do anything and say anything to have a partition. Fascism is a mental decease, and you can't help the way you act out. All you care about is how much stolen GC land you can keep. It has nothing to do with TCs security, which it should be, but it's not with you Fascists, because it's all about how much land you can steal and get away with it, and the fact that you cannot achieve your objectives now that the RoC is in the EU, you have become a savage mad dog, suffering from rabies like illness (Fascism) with your brain rotting away and turning you mad and savage.! I'm afraid your suffering will not end anytime soon. It is the curse you will have to live with it and I pity you for your internal sufferings.!

Wayne David (Caerphilly, Labour)

Mr Burrowes made a good speech, in which he warned us to be wary of what is sometimes termed "Cyprus fatigue". We must all ensure that we are fully engaged with the issues and that we take the matter forward collectively. The hon. Gentleman, and others, referred particularly to remarks by my right hon. Friend Mr Straw. I should like to make it clear that in both his article in The Times and the interview on the "Today" programme, my right hon. Friend was expressing his entirely personal view. It is not Opposition policy. Labour's policy, I believe, is unchanged. We are focused foursquare on ensuring that maximum support is given to the talks at the United Nations in New York this week. We encourage both parties to work together harmoniously to come to a just, fair solution.

David Lidington (Minister of State (Europe and NATO), Foreign and Commonwealth Office; Aylesbury, Conservative)

No, it does not. The hon. Gentleman draws me on to comments that I was about to make.

Far be it for me to criticise a distinguished elder statesman such as Mr Straw, but I am happy to make it clear that the Government's position is to support a bi-zonal, bi-communal federation with political equality for a united Cyprus. We do not support partition. As the hon. Member for Wansbeck has said, as one of the guarantor powers, we are bound by treaty not only to resist but to prohibit any step that would lead either to the partition of Cyprus or to its unification with any other country. The new British Government remain in support of that position on the present and future status of Cyprus.

Alan Meale (Mansfield, Labour)

Does the Minister agree that there would be a great danger if Britain's policy moved away from the one that he has expressed? If we break the treaty signed in the '60s that gave independence to Cyprus, it would break all other parts of the treaty. That could affect the British bases on the island.

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/whall/?id ... -16c.212.0

[denizaksulu]

Kikapu

e British Government's Members of Parliament, both Conservatives and Labour, and an EU member country.!

The same people you run into the ground when you dont like what they say eg Jack Straw or Gunter Verheugen, you change with the wind.

It's called doing what is in the best interest of the EU and all of it's citizens, to live by the Rule of Law, True Democracy, Human Rights, International Laws, and their own club rules, The EU Principles. Accept them, don't accept them, it's up to you. Just don't expect the EU to change their own Principles to accommodate your 16th century mentality.!

Thats the new name for it, in reality its called the opportunity to apply double standards and move the goal posts to avoid being found out to be wrong or a liar, sooner or later Turkey will part ways with the EU and little ol south Cyprus can kiss its EU leverage goodbye.

You can't help being a bitch, can you.??

That's what happens when you sleep with Fascists dogs.!

If there's anyone who is selling out anyone, it is the Fascist NeoPartitionists who are selling out their own people by trying to exterminate their own unique Turkish Cypriot identity, culture, language, customs, so to became part of the Anatolian settlers. If that was your desire, you should have went straight from the UK to Turkey, since you were so eager to return to your roots.!

Oh, I forgot, your "roots" does not want you the way you are and only sees you as an uncultured peasant, so you must convert to become an Anatolian to be accepted. It is people like you who are selling out the TCs, and the evidence is very clear for everyone to see.!

No you are and will always sell us out to the GCs full stop, no ifs and buts everyone can see you for what you are an GC arse licking traitor.

I don't see the British Government supporting what Jack Straw said recently, regarding partition. In fact, during the debates, they said these below. As for that idiot, Gunter Verheugen who made promises to the TCs on his own which he could not deliver, even the EU does not mention his name again or the Annan Plan. You should direct your complains to him, the idiot, Gunter Verheugen for failing you and not towards me.!

Once again, you are showing us how the TMT would have acted on decent TCs in the days gone by who wanted to live in peace in Cyprus with the GCs. You are no different from the TMT, that you will do anything and say anything to have a partition. Fascism is a mental decease, and you can't help the way you act out. All you care about is how much stolen GC land you can keep. It has nothing to do with TCs security, which it should be, but it's not with you Fascists, because it's all about how much land you can steal and get away with it, and the fact that you cannot achieve your objectives now that the RoC is in the EU, you have become a savage mad dog, suffering from rabies like illness (Fascism) with your brain rotting away and turning you mad and savage.! I'm afraid your suffering will not end anytime soon. It is the curse you will have to live with it and I pity you for your internal sufferings.!

Wayne David (Caerphilly, Labour)

Mr Burrowes made a good speech, in which he warned us to be wary of what is sometimes termed "Cyprus fatigue". We must all ensure that we are fully engaged with the issues and that we take the matter forward collectively. The hon. Gentleman, and others, referred particularly to remarks by my right hon. Friend Mr Straw. I should like to make it clear that in both his article in The Times and the interview on the "Today" programme, my right hon. Friend was expressing his entirely personal view. It is not Opposition policy. Labour's policy, I believe, is unchanged. We are focused foursquare on ensuring that maximum support is given to the talks at the United Nations in New York this week. We encourage both parties to work together harmoniously to come to a just, fair solution.

David Lidington (Minister of State (Europe and NATO), Foreign and Commonwealth Office; Aylesbury, Conservative)

No, it does not. The hon. Gentleman draws me on to comments that I was about to make.

Far be it for me to criticise a distinguished elder statesman such as Mr Straw, but I am happy to make it clear that the Government's position is to support a bi-zonal, bi-communal federation with political equality for a united Cyprus. We do not support partition. As the hon. Member for Wansbeck has said, as one of the guarantor powers, we are bound by treaty not only to resist but to prohibit any step that would lead either to the partition of Cyprus or to its unification with any other country. The new British Government remain in support of that position on the present and future status of Cyprus.

Alan Meale (Mansfield, Labour)

Does the Minister agree that there would be a great danger if Britain's policy moved away from the one that he has expressed? If we break the treaty signed in the '60s that gave independence to Cyprus, it would break all other parts of the treaty. That could affect the British bases on the island.

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/whall/?id ... -16c.212.0

So J. Straw and Davutoglu are loose canons. Best ignored. Thats fine with me.

[Nikitas]

Davut might be a loose cannon, but he is the one formulating Turkish foreign policy and redrawing the map of the eastern Mediterranean as per Ottoman Empire days. Some, including some in this forum, think he is a genius. I know he is a nutter.

[denizaksulu]

Davut might be a loose cannon, but he is the one formulating Turkish foreign policy and redrawing the map of the eastern Mediterranean as per Ottoman Empire days. Some, including some in this forum, think he is a genius. I know he is a nutter.

Time will show. The son of David is a dreamer. IMO. Now is reality. We have to wait and see what transpires.