Cyprus-Forum.com

[BirKibrisli]

Wise,compassionate,intelligent posts from one of the few GCs on this forum who keeps giving us some hope for a just future for the TCs in their own country...Thank you Bananiot...whenever I give up all hope,and begin to think Partition is inevitable,there is no way we can ever live together again,you pop up and lighten my spirit again...

When the futile attempts of the ultranationalists,fascists,Hellenic supremists,and their counterparts,to stop us from becoming a united nation finally goes bankrupt,we will find the opportunity and the goodwill to work for a just future for all Cypriots...When those responsible for our present seemingly hopeless situation realise there are far more fair-minded,empathetic,compassionate Cypriots who will not bend to their threats and intimidations,and when they realise they cannot hide from history,we will get a chance to rebuild our battered homeland from the scratch...All we have to do is hang in there,the time is running out for the bloodyminded merchants of hatred,division,bitterness,and death...

Who are the compassionate Cypriots?

Those like yourself who support a "solution" based on the ethnic cleansing and human rights violations of 100s of thousands of innocent people? Those who want to make GCs "pay the price" (your words) for everything that happened in the past?

Or maybe the compassionate Cypriots are those like myself, who support equality of all Cypriots without racist discriminations, without segregation, and without trying to punish innocent people because of what happened in the past?

The answer is obvious.

Unfortunately whom you like are not the compassionate Cypriots, but those Cypriots like Bananiot who are willing to accept your racist terms, and let you officially Turkify the north part of Cyprus and enjoy privileges and powers on the expense of our human and democratic rights.

Piratis,don't kid yourself...You have no compassion for the TCs...

If you did you wouldn't deny the effect of Enosis with Greece dream on their collective psych...If you did you would not dismiss their pain and suffering by saying 'but we suffered more and for longer'...If you did you would not justify robbing them of their rights in the RoC,and you would not suggest they were always hell bent on Taksim,and left their homes and villages to go into enclaves to advance the cause of Taksim...You are only fooling yourself if you think you have any compassion for the TCs...You are as hard as they come,and as heartless as they come when it comes to the plight of the TCs...Both in the past and at present...So go sell your wares elsewhere,we are not interested...

[Get Real!]

Piratis,don't kid yourself...You have no compassion for the TCs...

Why should any GC have compassion for “Turkish Cypriots”?

[Afroasiatis]

Piratis,don't kid yourself...You have no compassion for the TCs...

Why should any GC have compassion for “Turkish Cypriots”?

Because for a state/society to work well, there should be compassion and help towards the fellow countrymen who are in the most difficult position. I think one of the important reasons for the early failure of RoC, leading to its current status, i.e. partition, was exactly this indifference of GCs as a majority for the suffering of TCs. And I don't mean only killings and rapes, but also poverty. Not that there weren't cases of GCs who helped TCs and protected them, but it seems this wasn't the policy of the GC elites.

A state can never function well if it sees such a big part of its population as a foreign element. And it seems, that was the case in the early years of RoC.

[wyoming cowboy]

And you are saying that the tc were in poverty while the gc were living as elites, before 74 60 perc ent of cyprus as a whole was in poverty.

[Afroasiatis]

And you are saying that the tc were in poverty while the gc were living as elites, before 74 60 perc ent of cyprus as a whole was in poverty.

Before 74, the majority of both GCs and TCs were poor, obviously. When I mentioned GC elites, I was referring to the minority of GC higher classes, in the same way that a TC elite existed too.

However, there was a difference between the average income of GCs and TCs. According to statistics, even before 63 it was 20% higher for GCs. In the following years and up to 68, due to isolation of TCs, the difference became much bigger, if I remember well around 50%. This gap began closing after 68, as the situation was becoming more loose, but a difference was still there.

[Piratis]

Wise,compassionate,intelligent posts from one of the few GCs on this forum who keeps giving us some hope for a just future for the TCs in their own country...Thank you Bananiot...whenever I give up all hope,and begin to think Partition is inevitable,there is no way we can ever live together again,you pop up and lighten my spirit again...

When the futile attempts of the ultranationalists,fascists,Hellenic supremists,and their counterparts,to stop us from becoming a united nation finally goes bankrupt,we will find the opportunity and the goodwill to work for a just future for all Cypriots...When those responsible for our present seemingly hopeless situation realise there are far more fair-minded,empathetic,compassionate Cypriots who will not bend to their threats and intimidations,and when they realise they cannot hide from history,we will get a chance to rebuild our battered homeland from the scratch...All we have to do is hang in there,the time is running out for the bloodyminded merchants of hatred,division,bitterness,and death...

Who are the compassionate Cypriots?

Those like yourself who support a "solution" based on the ethnic cleansing and human rights violations of 100s of thousands of innocent people? Those who want to make GCs "pay the price" (your words) for everything that happened in the past?

Or maybe the compassionate Cypriots are those like myself, who support equality of all Cypriots without racist discriminations, without segregation, and without trying to punish innocent people because of what happened in the past?

The answer is obvious.

Unfortunately whom you like are not the compassionate Cypriots, but those Cypriots like Bananiot who are willing to accept your racist terms, and let you officially Turkify the north part of Cyprus and enjoy privileges and powers on the expense of our human and democratic rights.

Piratis,don't kid yourself...You have no compassion for the TCs...

If you did you wouldn't deny the effect of Enosis with Greece dream on their collective psych...If you did you would not dismiss their pain and suffering by saying 'but we suffered more and for longer'...If you did you would not justify robbing them of their rights in the RoC,and you would not suggest they were always hell bent on Taksim,and left their homes and villages to go into enclaves to advance the cause of Taksim...You are only fooling yourself if you think you have any compassion for the TCs...You are as hard as they come,and as heartless as they come when it comes to the plight of the TCs...Both in the past and at present...So go sell your wares elsewhere,we are not interested...

You are confusing "compassion" with accepting your lame excuses for violating our human and democratic rights. The 2 are not the same thing.

If "enosis" would have such an effect on your "psych" to cause you to attack innocent people then why didn't it have the same effect on your Rhodian counterparts? How come Rhodes united with Greece with not a single nose braking? The reason the TCs reacted as they did was because they were armed and enticed by the foreign Imperialists who promised to them gains on the expense of the majority. Turkey was even broadcasting radio programs calling TCs to attack GCs and start a civil war.

How is dismissing TCs pain and suffering by saying the fact the GCs suffered more and for longer? If you don't accept this fact, then you are the one who is dismissing our pain and suffering.

What you got in RoC were not "rights" but ill received gains that the Imperialist granted to you as a reward for helping them to deny to Cyprus its freedom. Your rights are your individual human rights as equal Cypriots plus some minority rights that minorities in all other countries have. Ottoman style privileges on the expense of the majority is NOT your right, and it is about time you realized this.

As far as the TCs leaving their homes for Taksim, that is an obvious one. It was true in 1950s just as it is true today. Ask VP, and he will tell you that the "south" is a "foreign country". It is more than obvious that the TCs care more about achieving Taksim rather than living in their ancestral lands.

I have compassion and respect for those TCs who have compassion and respect for me. I don't want to make these innocent TCs to "pay the price" for what happened in the past (as you want for GCs) but on the contrary I accept them as my equal compatriots.

[humanist]

You are confusing "compassion" with accepting your lame excuses for violating our human and democratic rights. The 2 are not the same thing.

If "enosis" would have such an effect on your "psych" to cause you to attack innocent people then why didn't it have the same effect on your Rhodian counterparts? How come Rhodes united with Greece with not a single nose braking? The reason the TCs reacted as they did was because they were armed and enticed by the foreign Imperialists who promised to them gains on the expense of the majority. Turkey was even broadcasting radio programs calling TCs to attack GCs and start a civil war.

How is dismissing TCs pain and suffering by saying the fact the GCs suffered more and for longer? If you don't accept this fact, then you are the one who is dismissing our pain and suffering.

What you got in RoC were not "rights" but ill received gains that the Imperialist granted to you as a reward for helping them to deny to Cyprus its freedom. Your rights are your individual human rights as equal Cypriots plus some minority rights that minorities in all other countries have. Ottoman style privileges on the expense of the majority is NOT your right, and it is about time you realized this.

As far as the TCs leaving their homes for Taksim, that is an obvious one. It was true in 1950s just as it is true today. Ask VP, and he will tell you that the "south" is a "foreign country". It is more than obvious that the TCs care more about achieving Taksim rather than living in their ancestral lands.

I have compassion and respect for those TCs who have compassion and respect for me. I don't want to make these innocent TCs to "pay the price" for what happened in the past (as you want for GCs) but on the contrary I accept them as my equal compatriots.

Piratis thank you for the post. It articulates exactly how I feel about the whole situation.

[Get Real!]

Piratis,don't kid yourself...You have no compassion for the TCs...

Why should any GC have compassion for “Turkish Cypriots”?

Because for a state/society to work well, there should be compassion and help towards the fellow countrymen who are in the most difficult position. I think one of the important reasons for the early failure of RoC, leading to its current status, i.e. partition, was exactly this indifference of GCs as a majority for the suffering of TCs. And I don't mean only killings and rapes, but also poverty. Not that there weren't cases of GCs who helped TCs and protected them, but it seems this wasn't the policy of the GC elites.

A state can never function well if it sees such a big part of its population as a foreign element. And it seems, that was the case in the early years of RoC.

I haven’t the SLIGHTEST compassion towards a people who…

1. Were murdering, raping, and tormenting the indigenous Cypriots for 308 years (1570...1878) until the administration of the island finally changed hands!

2. Had collaborated with British colonial forces in the 50s to suppress freedom and democracy against the indigenous people of Cyprus while the United Nations was calling upon the world to decolonize!

3. Had arranged and acquired special undemocratic privileges at the expense of the indigenous Cypriots in 1959/60 Zurich, only for this to predictably fall apart, and for them to take up arms and form enclaves instead of looking at democratizing the unfair and ridiculous situation!

4. Were on the phone to Ankara early on the 1st day of the Greek coup encouraging Turkey to invade and ethnically cleanse 185,000 Cypriots, when they could’ve assisted to thwart the Greek coup while the indigenous Cypriots were once again paying the ultimate price protecting the country from those who had come to overthrow the democratically elected president and government!

5. Had ransacked the homes, businesses, and churches of 185,000 Cypriot refugees in a maniacal frenzy to wipe out any traces of a 10,000 year old Cypriot inheritance!

6. Have been unashamedly collaborating with the internationally condemned illegal invader and occupier of Cyprus (Turkey) for the last 36 years and screwing this country and her people around with threats and blackmails!


If I’m to respect myself, my people, and our 10,000 year old inheritance on this island, then I have to say that enough is enough and that I just don’t care anymore how it is done… for all I want now is for this problem to be gotten rid off once and for all!

[Viewpoint]

How do you negotiate with GCs on this forum the majority of which are extremists.

[Afroasiatis]

Piratis,don't kid yourself...You have no compassion for the TCs...

Why should any GC have compassion for “Turkish Cypriots”?

Because for a state/society to work well, there should be compassion and help towards the fellow countrymen who are in the most difficult position. I think one of the important reasons for the early failure of RoC, leading to its current status, i.e. partition, was exactly this indifference of GCs as a majority for the suffering of TCs. And I don't mean only killings and rapes, but also poverty. Not that there weren't cases of GCs who helped TCs and protected them, but it seems this wasn't the policy of the GC elites.

A state can never function well if it sees such a big part of its population as a foreign element. And it seems, that was the case in the early years of RoC.

I haven’t the SLIGHTEST compassion towards a people who…

1. Were murdering, raping, and tormenting the indigenous Cypriots for 308 years (1570...1878) until the administration of the island finally changed hands!

2. Had collaborated with British colonial forces in the 50s to suppress freedom and democracy against the indigenous people of Cyprus while the United Nations was calling upon the world to decolonize!

3. Had arranged and acquired special undemocratic privileges at the expense of the indigenous Cypriots in 1959/60 Zurich, only for this to predictably fall apart, and for them to take up arms and form enclaves instead of looking at democratizing the unfair and ridiculous situation!

4. Were on the phone to Ankara early on the 1st day of the Greek coup encouraging Turkey to invade and ethnically cleanse 185,000 Cypriots, when they could’ve assisted to thwart the Greek coup while the indigenous Cypriots were once again paying the ultimate price protecting the country from those who had come to overthrow the democratically elected president and government!

5. Had ransacked the homes, businesses, and churches of 185,000 Cypriot refugees in a maniacal frenzy to wipe out any traces of a 10,000 year old Cypriot inheritance!

6. Have been unashamedly collaborating with the internationally condemned illegal invader and occupier of Cyprus (Turkey) for the last 36 years and screwing this country and her people around with threats and blackmails!


If I’m to respect myself, my people, and our 10,000 year old inheritance on this island, then I have to say that enough is enough and that I just don’t care anymore how it is done… for all I want now is for this problem to be gotten rid off once and for all!

I think one basic mistake you're making is the usual one: that of seeing the actions of an elite and sections of a people, in this case of TCs, as these of a whole people. In such situations, the majority of normal people don't have much choice than following or at least tolerating the decisions of their elites. Only a limited and controlled knowledge is allowed to them, and at the end, it's a matter of self-survival. The GC people behaved in a similar way.

In the case of Cyprus, the mentality of GC elites (and its acceptance from GC people) left not much choice to the TC people as falling into the arms of the TMT and Turkey. The behavior of GCs wasn't of much help to those TCs which would be ready to oppose the partitionist plans of their leadership.

As for the "undemocratic privileges", under the conditions of the times, with nationalism being dominant in both communities, there wasn't really any other fair alternative. Majority rule and "one man, one vote" may sound good and democratic, but they are suited to different mentalities and different social systems. In the time and place we're speaking about, they would be equal to a total exclusion of TCs. What could prevent the TCs from having a similar fate as Muslims in Greece and Bulgaria, or Greeks in Turkey?

I also get an impression that you consider GCs as "indigenous Cypriots", whereas TCs as not. How do you explain that? I mean, many of TCs are descendants of people who were in Cyprus before the Ottoman invasion and later converted to Islam, and even the ones who are descendants of settlers from other region were for so many generations in Cyprus that they are not less indigenous as any other Cypriot.