Cyprus-Forum.com

[boomerang]

When it comes to a society deeply divided by conflict, democracy is not just about majority rule. The only cure is concosiationalism

Really? So why don't they "cure" themselves with "concosiationalism" in Turkey?

Can you also please show me where this "concosiationalism" theory excuses ethnic cleansing and forced segregation?

And if we were to adopt such system, would the Armenians, Maronites and Latins also get the same status ... or we will only have as much of "concosiationalism" as it suits your Turkish friends?

and then he will throw his toys out the pram when a solution goes to a ref, which it won't anyway, and gets another no...he call everyone a fascist...

bananiot and lets not forget the whiner, do not realise that unless a solution that satisfies most of the population is not envisioned acceptance will lead to more problems...

[BirKibrisli]

What Piratis and Boomers fail to consider (intentionally I believe) is that Cyprus is NOT a NORMAL country...That is why we can't simply forget the past and pretend it hasn't happened...We had 37 years to take action to build understanding,trust,and empathy and respect between the communities,but we did the opposite...Both sides simply perpetuated the division,bitterness and hatred...Bananiot is spot on...You should have worried about the consequences of your actions when you were pledging your life and blood to achieve Enosis with Greece...When you forced the TCs out of power-sharing and into enclaves...

I am sick of talking about the plight of the TC community,but as long as you keep denying it I have no other choice...Cyprus history since independence has been anything but NORMAL...We can't just sweep it under the carpet and hope for the best...

Piratis is right of course...We were played for suckers by the big powers whose interests demanded that we keep on fighting amongst ourselves...
Why is it that Bananiot knows exactly where I am coming from? and the rest of you do not???I am the same person who thought that Cypriots are one people ,one nation,divided by two artificial factors PLUS a lot of political and social interferance from outside...I still think that...And I still believe the best solution for Cyprus is a Unitary state functioning along fully democratic lines,without any ethnic considerations whatsoever...But I have come to realise we cannot go there from where we are,given our bloody past...We have to come to some other agreement (and soon while we still can) to get us out of this impasse,and we can then work for the ideal solution in the future...As people start to trust and understand each other...
When I say that I get accused of being a Partitionist,wanting to aid Turkey's expansionism,justifying theft of GC land,wanting to gain on GC losses etc...So as the overall RoC official policies keep pushing the TCs more and more into Turkey's arms,you people are pushing me more and more towards the offical TC angle...Bananiot is one of the very few wise men and women here who can see what is going on...Your denials and accusations give me no other choice but to side with my community,and try to be a mouthpiece for their pain and suffering,their fears and aspirations...Why is it that Bananiot knows exactly what I am doing and why I am doing it,and the rest of you have not a clue???? Can't you see you are making the same mistake as in the 50s and 60s when you totally disregarded the TC sensitivities and pushed ahead with your Enosis dream...??? You have now replaced that dream with the "full democracy and human rights" demand,but essentially you are doing the same thing as before :Totally ignoring and disregarding TC feelings and sensitivities...

That is why history will repeat itself and Cypriots will keep losing out,will keep getting the worse of it,and the human tragedy will simply keep on keeping on...

[EPSILON]

No source = No story!

If TC source = Don’t worry about it!

Btw, the president of the RoC would never say something stupid like "south Cyprus"!

Do not be so sure.

[Get Real!]

No source = No story!

If TC source = Don’t worry about it!

Btw, the president of the RoC would never say something stupid like "south Cyprus"!

Do not be so sure.

No source = No convince!

[EPSILON]

No source = No story!

If TC source = Don’t worry about it!

Btw, the president of the RoC would never say something stupid like "south Cyprus"!

Do not be so sure.

No source = No convince!

Bur,at least he said "Greece invated Cyprus" not Junta but Greece!!!!After he finish with Turks and sign their solution he can continue to withdraw the Greek occupation army of almoast 50000 soldiers out of Cyprus-new target -new 5 years post in Presidency.

[Piratis]

What Piratis and Boomers fail to consider (intentionally I believe) is that Cyprus is NOT a NORMAL country...That is why we can't simply forget the past and pretend it hasn't happened...We had 37 years to take action to build understanding,trust,and empathy and respect between the communities,but we did the opposite...Both sides simply perpetuated the division,bitterness and hatred...Bananiot is spot on...You should have worried about the consequences of your actions when you were pledging your life and blood to achieve Enosis with Greece...When you forced the TCs out of power-sharing and into enclaves...

I am sick of talking about the plight of the TC community,but as long as you keep denying it I have no other choice...Cyprus history since independence has been anything but NORMAL...We can't just sweep it under the carpet and hope for the best...

Piratis is right of course...We were played for suckers by the big powers whose interests demanded that we keep on fighting amongst ourselves...
Why is it that Bananiot knows exactly where I am coming from? and the rest of you do not???I am the same person who thought that Cypriots are one people ,one nation,divided by two artificial factors PLUS a lot of political and social interferance from outside...I still think that...And I still believe the best solution for Cyprus is a Unitary state functioning along fully democratic lines,without any ethnic considerations whatsoever...But I have come to realise we cannot go there from where we are,given our bloody past...We have to come to some other agreement (and soon while we still can) to get us out of this impasse,and we can then work for the ideal solution in the future...As people start to trust and understand each other...
When I say that I get accused of being a Partitionist,wanting to aid Turkey's expansionism,justifying theft of GC land,wanting to gain on GC losses etc...So as the overall RoC official policies keep pushing the TCs more and more into Turkey's arms,you people are pushing me more and more towards the offical TC angle...Bananiot is one of the very few wise men and women here who can see what is going on...Your denials and accusations give me no other choice but to side with my community,and try to be a mouthpiece for their pain and suffering,their fears and aspirations...Why is it that Bananiot knows exactly what I am doing and why I am doing it,and the rest of you have not a clue???? Can't you see you are making the same mistake as in the 50s and 60s when you totally disregarded the TC sensitivities and pushed ahead with your Enosis dream...??? You have now replaced that dream with the "full democracy and human rights" demand,but essentially you are doing the same thing as before :Totally ignoring and disregarding TC feelings and sensitivities...

That is why history will repeat itself and Cypriots will keep losing out,will keep getting the worse of it,and the human tragedy will simply keep on keeping on...

Cyprus is not a normal country because foreign imperialists don't let it to be a normal country, and your community is used by them to achieve this aim. Your community is not the only Muslim minority in territory formerly ruled by the Ottomans. For example the reason Bulgaria is a normal country while Cyprus is not, is that in the case of Cyprus your community was armed and enticed to fight against the majority by foreign Imperialists. (and yes, in Bulgaria there were inter-ethnic conflicts, much worst than in Cyprus, as well. And yet Bulgaria is a normal country). The same could be said for Turkey, with its Greek or Kurdish communities and for many other countries. In fact the majority of countries used to have such kind of issues at one point of their history, but this was not used as an excuse to impose on them something abnormal.

It is sad that you think that the last 37 years could be used to build trust. This just shows how out of touch with reality you are. The result of ethnic cleansing, human rights violations and illegal occupation could never be an environment that could produce anything good. Anybody with a grain of brain would understand that such environment could only result in hate and enmity. Similarly anybody with a grain of brain can understand that some racist apartheid "solution" can only result in yet more hate and enmity.

Enosis, is nothing more than your excuse. Even if we had replaced enosis with independence with full democracy and human rights, this still wouldn't be good enough for you. (you just admitted this in your post above). The problem is that foreign Imperialists promise to your minority way more than what proportionally belongs to you, on the expense of the majority. This is what they did since the 50s until today.

Just answer me honestly Bir: Is there any difference for TCs between being an ethnic minority in a Greek state (with Cyprus part of this Greek state) and being an ethnic minority within an independent Cypriot state? If you answered honestly you will see that there is no difference whatsoever for TCs. Therefore enosis is just an excuse. The TCs REAL aim is to have for their minority way more than any other minority in any other country has, on the expense of every other Cypriot. They have such an aim because foreign imperialists promise to them that such outrageous aim is actually achievable. TCs continue playing their game today, just like they did in the 50s.

Even thought it was our right, we officially gave up enosis in 1960, and by the end of that decade most Cypriots accepted that Cyprus would be an independent country. But TCs never accepted to be equal Cypriot citizens without racist discriminations on our expense and without racist segregation. This is why the problem continues today even though the lame excuse of enosis expired decades ago.

The way forward is not some apartheid "solution" which will be based on the results of ethnic cleansing and human rights violations. If you can't see that such a "solution" can only lead to more hate, enmity and problems then it seems you lack any common sense. Sure, if all of us had the slave mentality of Bananiot such "solution" would work out just fine. But I hope you realized by now that most Cypriots are not like Bananiot. The vast majority of us want our human and democratic rights respected and we do not accept racist discriminations against us.

[Get Real!]

Why is it that Bananiot knows exactly where I am coming from? and the rest of you do not???

[B25]

Why is it that Bananiot knows exactly where I am coming from? and the rest of you do not???

Mate, you may wish you rephrase that, otherwise people may get the wrong (right) idea.

How do you take him anyway?? Just curios.

[BirKibrisli]

It is sad that you think that the last 37 years could be used to build trust. This just shows how out of touch with reality you are. The result of ethnic cleansing, human rights violations and illegal occupation could never be an environment that could produce anything good.

Exactly,Piratis...This is where your selective look at history comes in...
You forget that before 1974,the TCs were subjects of ethnic cleansing,human rights violations,and illegal dispossesion of their political power...As long as you refuse to acknowledge this,and blame it on the victims themselves, you have no right to complain about your own plight...

Stop making excuses for your own criminal acts,own up like a man,and we can talk honestly about the rest...Not before...

Enosis, is nothing more than your excuse. Even if we had replaced enosis with independence with full democracy and human rights, this still wouldn't be good enough for you. (you just admitted this in your post above).

I admitted no such thing...ENOSIS was like a red rug to a bull for the TCs,and you people knew it...You were after revenge and punishment,you wanted to show the "Ottoman remnants" who was the boss,finally...If your aim was independence the whole history would have been entirely different..Those imperialist powers would've had little success in dividing and ruling us...So,again,be a man and admit it..You stuffed up big time..You gave them a big stick to beat us with,and they did...And we have not stopped beating each other up ever since...

Just answer me honestly Bir: Is there any difference for TCs between being an ethnic minority in a Greek state (with Cyprus part of this Greek state) and being an ethnic minority within an independent Cypriot state?

This question is hypothetical...What was in question was not an Independent Cyprus...You wanted Cyprus to be part of Greece...At that time given the historical emnity,that would have been a death sentence for the TCs...And they had enough numbers and international backers to fight it to the best of their ability...Other minorities in other countries were like a drop in the ocean...The TCs were a sizable minority,and they had the spirit and motivation to fight any fait accompli...As I said earlier.if you were going for a democratic ,independent state back in the 50s things might have been different...

Even thought it was our right, we officially gave up enosis in 1960, and by the end of that decade most Cypriots accepted that Cyprus would be an independent country.

That is laughable,Piratis,and you know it...What was the Akritas Plan trying to do??? Makarios was still talking about Enosis dream well after 1963,and you know it...When you make blatantly false statements like this you lose all credibility...If you really believe the Enosis dream was offcially over in 1960,there is little point in discussing anything with you...

[BirKibrisli]

Why is it that Bananiot knows exactly where I am coming from? and the rest of you do not???

Mate, you may wish you rephrase that, otherwise people may get the wrong (right) idea.

How do you take him anyway?? Just curios.

Little minds are easily amused...

There are very few people in this Forum who gives any credibility to GC cause...Bananiot is the chief amongst them...Without his input we'd soon decide you are all a bunch of racist,fascist,chauvenistic bigots...You should kiss his backside every day and twice on Sundays...