Cyprus-Forum.com

[Bananiot]

Piratis is building all of his arguments on a fallacy. He reckons that we are the majority and therefore we should be able to do pretty much what we want. Obviously he is living in a dream world. This is not how the world works and this is known by toddlers. The world is much more complex and many parameters need to be taken into the equation before arriving at an answer. Going for goals without considering all the parameters is like trying to commit suicide. The angloamericans have vital interests in this region, whether we like it or not. Thus, if we begin to hurt their interests they are bound to retaliate in order to safeguard them. This is just an example but this is how the world works ever since mankind started becoming civilised. If we go against their interest we muxt be ready to pay the penalty and its no good complaining aftrwards. These are the rules of the game. Of course it helps to have muscle, but our thick head has not helped us in this direction, so we go around crying out like spoilt prats that we have been dealt wrong by the great powers (forgetting that we even owe Greece's independence to the great powers).

Coming back to the majority business and Piratis simplistic view. If at every instance the majority rule was used to settle issues, humanity would probably be no better than a bee's colony where strict order exists and nobody questions the order.

The majority is always to be feared. It can never be trusted to function democratically under all given circumstances. It is just as likely to crush the minority verbally, mentally or physically. Do you need some examples that hurt? What happened to the 80 thousand turkish speaking minority in Crete? What has happened to the thriving Greek community of Istanbul (sorry Piratis, Constantinoupolis)?

I can hear Piratis thinking "the majority must respect the rights of the minority" and he is dead right. However, we have not done so. We failed the exams. People died and mistrust was built. Hence, the solution, if it is ever found, to the cyprob, cannot simply ignore history, pretend that thing never happened. It will reflect the past, inevidably, so instead of putting the blame squarely on the foreigners, lets realise that the eventual solution will never be as we would prefer it, but it will take into consideration our past actions.

Of course, many understand this and have opted for the situation to remain as it is. Papadopoulos is one of them but he does not say it. He used to say it and write it before he became president. Others, think that there can be a perfect solution. I will end as I started. They live in the clouds. If, by cvhance, deep down they understand this reality, then there is plan B to consider. Support Papadopoulos.

[Piratis]

Bananiot, I perfectly understand the realities, and I know that in this world there is no justice but simply balance of power. I said this long long time ago and many times.

Our deference is that you believe that we should surrender and let the powerful do whatever they want with us. I believe that we should fight, and they should know that there is a cost for them to pay (even a small one) for their actions. If you think like a slave, you will always be a slave. If everybody was thinking like you no Greeks would be on this island today. (something that obviously wouldn't bother you).

Now, since I know about the balance of power, why do i bother advocating "useless" things like democracy and human rights? I advocate those ideals, because those are the only way we can achieve some stability on this island that will last for long time. Otherwise, they will gain on our loss now that they have more power, when we get some more power we will gain on their loss, and this will be a never ending circle.

I know that hoping for such thing is very difficult and very idealistic. With this knowledge I am willing to compromise those ideals for something acceptable (not "perfect as you claim). But there isn't any acceptable alternative today, and this was the conclusion of not just me, but of the 76% of Greek Cypriots.

[Bananiot]

You are absolutely amazing Piratis. You do not deal with the core issues but you play the patriotic hand at every opportunity. I think this shows the weaknesses of you arguments. Since you like talking about slaves and greekness I would also like to point out that the greatest harm to Greece or Cyprus was done by people that talked like you, appealing to the basic instincts of simpletons or sick nationalists. People who love Greece or their country in general, do not open fronts with the mightiest powers on earth, because this is the shortest route of destroying your country. We have done this once, now you say we should fight; whom I ask? The answer is the whole world, Greece included. No my friend, you do not love your country. Deep down you hate it. Those that love their countries do not go around shouting it out and making scores of enemies. They shut up, and merely do their duty when and if the time comes.

[Piratis]

The greatest harm was done by people like you. That thought that the majority of people are just idiots and they are the smart ones. In their stupidity, they acted in a way that they thought was for the good of their country, but in fact they were helping the enemy.

[Bananiot]

Would you like to throw in some explanations so that one can understand what you mean? You are saying that people like me hurt Cyprus. Can you elaborate? When, under what conditions?

[Piratis]

By "like you", I don't necessarily include you personally in this category. Probably all you do (i hope) is just shouting in forums. Not much harm done.

Whom I do include is people like Vasiliou (and his friend Papapetrou) who while they represent close to nothing, they go against the will of the great majority and they are acting in a way that harms us.

The most recent example is that while even the US!!! welcomed the measures that our government announced recently, they along with Turkey where the first to criticize them!

While the majority has decided to go to one direction, they are trying to make it as difficult for us as possible.

Personally, if the referendum produced a "yes" vote from both sides I would either sit here and try to make this new "united" Cyprus thing work, or I would sell my property, and leave to another country. I wouldn't sit here fighting against the will of the majority trying to make "united" Cyprus to fail so I will prove that I was right for voting "no" and everybody that voted "yes" were idiots.

I expect from you to do the same, but unfortunately you don't seem to understand what democracy means.