Cyprus-Forum.com

[Oracle]

But, do I want to see the quality of life improve for all those that regard Cyprus as their home?; then the answer has to be YES

So, the "quality of life" in Cyprus is below, or worse than, that in the UK? Can you elucidate?

Quality of life is pretty high actually, the basic infrastructure exists but is not refined.
I think 60 thousand Brits would contribute more to Cypriot society than 60 thousand Hatian or Nigerian asylum seekers...

Cap, stop bringing in your prejudices. The quality of life is high, in Cyprus, because it is Cyprus and not because of Brits. That's why they come here. Chasing that 'quality of life'. The higher average life expectancy etc. Yet, Robin Hood knows different ...

[Robin Hood]

Oracle,

So, the "quality of life" in Cyprus is below, or worse than, that in the UK? Can you elucidate?

Did I compare Cyprus with the UK? I don’t think so! As I have not lived in the UK for over twenty years all I know is what I have seen on the three occasions that I have visited the UK in 20 years, read in the on-line papers and what I am told by those visitors unfortunate enough to still live there. I have however been to many other countries both in Europe and further afield.

Yes there are aspects of Cyprus life that is inferior in comparison to other countries, but not specifically to that in the UK.

In virtually any country but Cyprus, I can empty my bowls and wipe the fundamental orifice clean on a piece of toilet paper and flush the contents of the toilet into a main sewage system although, if built properly, the lack of a main sewer system is not a problem. In Cyprus I leave the paper behind for others to admire until some kind person collects it and disposes of it.

If you look at the internet you will see that it not the design or quality of Cypriot faeces or toilet paper that is the problem here but, the traditional Cypriot design of sewage systems. It should be very obvious to even a casual observer that a t**d follows Newtons law of motion, in basic terms it requires ‘something’ to make it turn corners. To build a square box with the inlet at 90 degrees to the outlet and with nothing in between means that the offending t**d is not directed to turn the corner. It takes up the aerodynamic qualities of a brick and travels in a straight line. Therefore the t**d along with the paper gets splattered all over the side of the trap directly opposite the inlet. This eventually solidifies and builds up until the trap gets blocked by paper and an accumulation of t**ds.

The Cypriot plumber explains the blockage as being caused by the soft, biodegradable toilet tissue. He knows no different because Newtons Laws of motion are most likely beyond his sphere of knowledge. Along comes Brit (ME) shows him how to build the trap so that a half section 100mm plastic elbow, cemented into the trap actually turns the t**d in mid flight, along with the toilet paper and water, leaving behind a clean and empty trap. Delighted with his new found knowledge the Cypriot plumber who had been building traps the Cypriot way for decades then went on to do all the other traps in the way he was shown for his regulars suffering blockages, mainly foreigners who were not used to this rather archaic practice of holding on to the toilet paper, and made himself a few bob to boot!

Not a monumental change to the Cypriot culture but it certainly makes life that more pleasant when a trip to the toilet does not involve having to look at others waste deposits, in public places often all over the floor as well.

It really is simple things that make the improvements, like replacing oil lamps with electric lamps or laying tiles instead of having a dirt or concrete floor. These are improvements and they do not constitute changing a culture. Merely making life better in a small way.

Hey, when I was a kid in South London, we had an outside privy and a tin bath hung on the wall outside that got used once a week on a Friday evening as I recall. Being the youngest, I was last in the pecking order for a bath and it was usually cold water by the time it came to my turn. Was I pleased when we progressed to an inside bog and a bath that was permanently attached to the plumbing. That’s progress for you?

There are many other little practices in Cyprus that one could improve upon, which would improve the quality of life in a small way for every body. The above should be taken only as an example of one particular traditional ‘custom’.

[Oracle]

Robin, thanks for the comprehensive reply but all it tells me is that you do not know the meaning of "quality". It's not the same as "comfort". You'll probably find that those open hole-in-the-ground toilets were better for people than any modern WC, paper-flushing or not.

These "comforts" you are bringing to the island may well be its undoing!

[Piratis]

Talisker,

A very accurate and well reasoned argument but, you are peeing into the wind with those on this Forum! I have Cypriot friends with whom I have had this discussion and in the main they agree with your observations and very logical assessment of the Cypriot attitude.

This, like many threads that preceded it will no doubt be destroyed by the Forum Rottweiler’s. What could be an interesting exchange of views from both sides of the fence will deteriorate into a mud slinging match with the interfering Brits attacked from all sides because they dare to express an opinion. You may have noticed particularly on this site and amongst the younger generation of Cypriots, that hatred of any opinion expressed by foreigners, is a major part of the Cypriot psyche.

So, according to your own judgment, Cypriots in general are more like the people in this forum and not like your Cypriot friends. Therefore if this is not the right forum to discuss this issue, which one is? A forum made up exclusively from British immigrants where the opposite view is never heard?

You started the "mud slinging match" by attacking the people of this forum and calling them names so you are the last one who has the right to complain about the response in kind which you deserve to receive.

Cypriots do not seem to accept that virtually all the Brits that came to live here, came because they were fed up with seeing their own country going down the pan because ‘foreigners’ lowered the quality of life and a standard of living, that took generations to create. We left behind a country which has no-go areas and areas in which there are no 'English'.

We came here with most of our wealth, which in turn made many Cypriots wealthy. Almost every Brit that lives in Cyprus, is an asset to the country. What would happen to the Cypriot economy if the Brits all quit and went elsewhere?

There are approximately 60,000 Brits actually living here full time. The vast majority of these being pensioners who each month, bring a substantial sum of money into Cyprus to live on. Unlike the overgenerous benefits in the UK, there is virtually no welfare state support for foreigners in Cyprus!

The Brits income that arrives every month from the UK (or wherever) is all money flowing into the Cyprus coffers. Assume the ridiculous that all Brits are married couples living on a fairly low income of a thousand euro’s a month per couple? So, that’s 30,000 couples bringing in a total of €30m every month as a minimum. There will be many bringing into the country many times that monthly figure. So having contributed a minimum of €360m a year to the Cyprus economy, I think we deserve an opinion. This Island has been my home for twenty years and it is home to me as much as it is to Cypriot nationals and what happens here, that can adversely affect the Island, is also something that is important to me.

So you came to Cyprus to make to Cypriots a favor? Sorry mate, but I don't believe this. The sole reason that you came to Cyprus is because you believe this would benefit you. In this respect you are no different than any other immigrant. Did you know that the whole system in the UK and many other EU countries would totally collapse due to the aging population if it wasn't for the immigrants supplying the necessary workforce? Did you really think that the UK is making a favor to the immigrants, while the immigrants are making a favor to Cyprus?

As you say, Brits do have a habit of moaning but it is not because we think we are better than others but because we can see similar warning signs of events that dragged our country down, happening also in Cyprus. Maybe not the same events but, when you see what national apathy to an established system can do to a country/people, then you know what to look for. It is like a cancer that grows almost undetected until it is all consuming and the chance has gone to do anything about it. General apathy shown by Cypriots over many things such as poor driving standards, the legal system, title deeds, corruption, public service abuse, greed, and bureaucratic incompetence, will eventually come home to roost when it will affect Cypriots directly and not just the foreigners.

Are you saying that those things used to be better in Cyprus and now is getting worst?

When you separate the Brits as a people from The British as a colonial power, the two are very different.

Some are different, but some unfortunately have the same kind of arrogant colonial mentality.

The Cypriots had a military event involving the ethnic groups on the Island and the eventual intervention of Turkey as one of the guarantee powers in 1974; the British had a military event with Germany in 1939-1945; the Arabs have had numerous military events over the last two thousand years or even longer with the Jews. The Arabs and the Israelis are still at one another’s throats! The GC’s and TC’s are still at one another’s throats. The British and the Germans have settled their differences and are now buddies in a democratic Europe. So, I don’t think it is xenophobic to make an assessment on the general characteristics of a people based on actual scenarios. You do not forget the past but you do have to leave it behind if, as a nation, you want to progress.

How much territory of Britain does Germany occupy today? Turkey today occupies 1/3rd of Cyprus and Israel occupies the Palestinian territories. This is not about the past, but about what happens in the present. It is sad that you can not see the obvious.

If say Russia invaded the UK, occupied 1/3rd of it and ethnically cleansed the British from that part, would you forgive them within a few decades and move on? I doubt. Here you can't even forgive Cypriots for fighting for the liberation of their own island and decades later you still collaborate with the Turks in your efforts to screw Cyprus.

And in Cyprus what happened in 1974 was an invasion which could not be excused by any "guarantor power" nonsense (and lets not forget that the British and the Turks made themselves "guarantors" of Cyprus so they can continue to abuse the island).

[SKI-preo]

The "complaint" is the greatest contribution made by Poms to civilization.I like Poms and use it as a term of endearment. I am convinced that the irritability and over sensitivity of the Poms has led to the advancement of human culture and technology.The whinging Pom is the driving force behind many reforms in legislation the unique style of Pom journalism and even comedy opens all our eyes to problems we did not even know existed. Our lives are all improved everytime a Pommie dinner complains to a waiter or a Pom tourist complains to a hotel standards incrementally get that tiny bit better.Thankyou whinging Poms for vocalizing the minutiae which in most cases I must admit usually make most of our lives a tiny bit better. I do not take Poms and their unique skills for granted.

REMEMBER: Cyprus would still be throwing used bog paper in rubbish bins next to toilets instead of flushing if it wasn't for Pom complaining.

[Get Real!]

Cypriots do not seem to accept that virtually all the Brits that came to live here, came because they were fed up with seeing their own country going down the pan because ‘foreigners’ lowered the quality of life and a standard of living, that took generations to create.

So in turn you've decided to ruin this country now?

Almost every Brit that lives in Cyprus, is an asset to the country. What would happen to the Cypriot economy if the Brits all quit and went elsewhere?

Utter rubbish! I've destroyed this old (Brit) wife’s tale many times with credible facts and figures from the statistical service.

[RichardB]

Quote:
Almost every Brit that lives in Cyprus, is an asset to the country. What would happen to the Cypriot economy if the Brits all quit and went elsewhere?

We'd just go and piss on another nation I suppose

But then again some of us repect Cyprus and live with all its little idiocyncrisies (SIC)

[Oracle]

The "complaint" is the greatest contribution made by Poms to civilization.I like Poms and use it as a term of endearment. I am convinced that the irritability and over sensitivity of the Poms has led to the advancement of human culture and technology.The whinging Pom is the driving force behind many reforms in legislation the unique style of Pom journalism and even comedy opens all our eyes to problems we did not even know existed. Our lives are all improved everytime a Pommie dinner complains to a waiter or a Pom tourist complains to a hotel standards incrementally get that tiny bit better.Thankyou whinging Poms for vocalizing the minutiae which in most cases I must admit usually make most of our lives a tiny bit better. I do not take Poms and their unique skills for granted.

REMEMBER: Cyprus would still be throwing used bog paper in rubbish bins next to toilets instead of flushing if it wasn't for Pom complaining.

What toilet paper? It used to be newspapers and holes-in-the-ground. Why do you think they gave us our freedom?

[SKI-preo]

A jet lands at Larnaca Airport. How can you tell if its British Airways? You can still here the whining 10 minutes after the engines are switched off. This is a bad dyslexic imitation of an Aussie vs Pom joke.

[Robin Hood]

Piratis,

This thread stared with the observation that Brits were frequently attacked on this Forum for moaning. A description of us that I go along with. That opened what I said could be a worthwhile exchange of views and opinion. I predicted that the ‘Forum Rottweilers’ would take over and destroy any sensible discussion with the normal vitriol and inherent dislike some Cypriots have of the British. You, and others, have proved yourself worthy of my description.

Had I wished to go to a country where I had total disregard for my own welfare and that of my wife but went there with some crazy notion of doing my bit to improve things for the less fortunate, then I would have gone to Somalia, Afghanistan or even Pakistan! So your comment is merely fatuous and really not worthy of some body who is obviously intelligent. We won’t go into the ‘ageing population argument’ here, or the significant contribution the Brits make to the Cypriot economy, if you wish, start another thread. I would be happy to discuss it with you.

Arrogance? Guilty. Unfortunately when you have been in a ‘management’ position (as in being a colonial power) some traits do have the habit of becoming part of a national personality. It is difficult to discard that part of our character that says we are right, because in the past it has often, although not always, proved to be true. But humility is also one of our attributes. We do have the capacity to admit when we are, or have been wrong and apologise for it. So, give us a bit of credit, love us or hate us, we do have our good points and no race is perfect.

How much territory of Britain does Germany occupy today?

Now you have scored an own goal!!! In answer, quite simply, ALL OF IT . Check the history books. We are Anglo Saxons, i.e Anglo as in English and Saxon as in Saxony, now part of Germany. Our Royal family is of German origin and descent and only changed their name from the House of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, the German family name to Windsor, in 1917 when we were at war with Germany. It didn’t look to good on the family tree and did nothing for national morale at the time, so they invented a new identity, which basically means they are still Germans. So, add to that the fact that we had another slight confrontation in the years between 1939 and 1945, and, going on your principals, we should still be at one another’s throats not comrades in arms fighting what is perceived as a common foe, as in Afghanistan. Again, the rights and wrongs of that are a separate argument. But it just shows that different nationalities have different thought patterns, presumably bought about by life’s experiences which could be described simply as ‘evolution’?

I would however go on record of having great sympathy for the Palestinians and feel they have suffered great wrongs in the past and, unfortunately, still do. Again, another interesting topic and well worthy of discussion?

You are obviously, as I said an intelligent man, but tend to use emotive rather than rational and factual thought processes. But I hold no ill feelings against any Cypriot either now or in our past history. It was all in the past, it is time to accept one another and move on into another stage of the evolutionary process.

Get Real. Don’t take statements out of context to suit your argument, it does you no credit, it just gives the impression you are biased (As if?)!!!!! The same comments as above in general apply to your comments, they are driven by irrationality and emotion not a well thought out opinion based on consideration of others experiences, opinions and thought processes and then combining them into a logical argument. I am sure you can do better than simple one liners with an evocative inference?

Oracle – sorry I missed the bit about newspapers being used before the invention of toilet paper. Even then, San-Izal (if you can remember that, it gives your age away!) only had the one advantage that it did not leave printers ink all over your private regions. As a child it was one of my chores to tear up the News of The World into 4” squares, poke a hole in one corner and insert a piece of string. Mind you, having had experience of some of the less developed areas on this planet, the training did come in handy later in life!

Oh and by the way. The difference between ‘quality’ and ‘comfort’ is splitting hairs. A Mercedes has quality, therefore it exhibits comfort. If it did not have quality it would no doubt be uncomfortable. Personally, my preference is for the old Jaguars anyway.