denizaksulu wrote:BirKibrisli wrote:Kikapu wrote:Kikapu wrote:BirKibrisli wrote:It is a naive, wishful thinking(if that is the right term),and naked propaganda, to suggest that the TCs were mostly afraid of the TMT in their abandoning their centuries old ancestral villages and lands in 1963-67 period...Certainly the TMT tried in their primitive way to influence the TC thinking regarding coperating with the GCs,but without a lot of help from the GCs the TMT had no chance of getting the TCs to do what they wanted...Ive told this before :the TMT tried to ban speaking of Cypriot Greek at one stage...for every word uttered in Greek one was to be fined 2 shillings...My grandmother spoke better Greek than Turkish (as most people did in the Paphos area) so there was no way she could stop even if she wanted to...So there were a lot of Greek whispered in her house,but do you think any of her grandchildren dared to dob her in??? We were more afraid of her than the TMT!!!!
So to say that it was the TMT that oppressed the TCs is saying that the GCs had nothing at all to do with it,which is total bollocks,as those of us who lived through those dark times know very well...
Bir, I don't think anyone is denying that EOKA-B were no friends to the TCs, and that their main goal was enosis, but at the same time, the TMT were no friends to the TCs who did not want partition either. If the TMT were the spearhead to bring about partition, how else could they do it if they too did not treat the TCs badly, in order to force them to the northern part of Cyprus from the southern side. Lets face it, "eggs had to be broken, if they were ever going to make that omelette", don't you think.??BirKibrisli wrote:The role of the TMT in oppressing the TCs is largely exaggerated,Kikapu...
For most TCs,for most of the time,the TMT could do no wrong...They were largely considered as heros who stood between them (the TCs) and total annihilation...
It may well have been, Bir, but I don't think the issue is about "quantity" so much, but more to do with "quality". In other words, did the TMT in fact intimidate at times to keep the TCs in line, as well as protected the TCs.?? It's all a question of just "how many times the wife was beaten, once a week or once a month."!
The point I was trying to make,not very clearly it seems is this,Kikapu...There is a big effort from the RoC official propaganda/disinformation apparatus to absolve themselves from any guilt,and blame the TMT and Turkey for every calamity which was brought upon Cyprus...They are even denying that EOKA and Enosis dream had anything to with it...We,I mean the TCs,cannot remain silent on this...Especially those of us who lived through the worse of it,and know exactly what went on...Sure the TMT used every tactic in their arsenal to advance what they believed to be the just/good cause of the TCs...But without the dreaded EOKA and the push for Enosis they had little chance of changing the course of history...Those who want to rewrite history want us to forget this fact...BirKibrisli wrote:This did not come about because of fear of the TMT,but because of the fear of Enosis and EOKA and all the big and small humiliations and attrocities the TCs had to suffer in the hands of the GC state officials and paramilitaries during those dark years...No one,including yourself ,can absolve the GCs (the state apparatus not the people!) of their crimes against TCs...
And no one should or can deny the above statement either. Most definitely not by me, since I had already stated in my last post that the EOKA-B was not the friends of the TCs, or even with some of the GCs. The TMT also did their dirty works on the TCs too. You were virtually kidnapped until your father agreed to what ever the TMT wanted from him. Lets not forget, that the TMT also sent a hit-man after your father, which you gave us full account as to what happened here on the Cyprus Forum. One wanted Enosis and the wanted partition no matter what. Did I miss anything.??
Let me set the record straight on this issue...I was under the impression for most of life that it was the TMT who were responsible for certain events in my life which I have described in my "Dairy" thread back in 2007...Incredibly,as I was writing that thread I heard that the "would-be -assassin" was visiting Sydney...I seeked him out and we had a very interesting conversation about those events...He told me himself that he has little doubt now it was the TMT's local area commander who had organised my kidnapping and Father's assassination attempt,over a very personal matter...He said a lot of that went on behind the scenes.People in influencial positions abused their power often to take care of their private grudges...I have no doubt some of that went on within the EOKA as well...power corrupts and unquestioned power...you know the rest...BirKibrisli wrote:It is now official GC state propaganda to rewrite history and try to suggest that Taksim came before Enosis,and it was all the TMT's underhanded ways which forced the TCs into enclaves,and out of government during 1964-74 period..
Bir, by 1963 it no longer mattered what came first, Enosis or Taksim, because it was already established by 1960 that both Enosis and Taksim was in full swing, hence the 1960 constitution. It was never meant to work and it didn't. It was designed to bring about either Enosis or Taksim, therefore, it is totally irrelevant what came first or happened as a subsequent. According to a posting Bananiot made a while back, it stated that by 1967 Makarios's Enosios dreams were no longer, but the same could not be said of Denktash's Taksim dreams. Even today, the Taksim dreams are alive in the north, which is also the reason as to why a settlement cannot be reached.
It would be irrevelant which came first if the RoC propaganda/disinformation activities did not of late concentrate on Taksim,and try to paint it as the cause of all the troubles...But you know and I know and most of the posters here know that the Enosis with Greece dream goes back to 1821...At that time even the words "Turkish" and "nationalism" were totally unkown...So in the light of the RoC denials and accusations it is important and relevant to remember which came first...The Enosis dream was extinguished out of necessity...The powers that be realised they just couldn't bring it about...And the Taksim dream remains alive in certain quarters also because of necessity...You must know that the TCs had nowhere else to turn to for their survival (both physical and cultural/social survival as a unique community) but to Turkey...The bloody minded and intransigent insistance on Enosis,and the means they employed to achive it simply made it a matter of life and death for the TCs to embrace their "Turkishness"...All the political manouvering since 1974 reenforced the TCs dependence on Turkey,to the point that a Unitary state idea now seems dead and buried....The lions share of the blame for that belongs to our GC compatriots,and one day they will hve to admit it and appologise for it...
BirKibrisli wrote:This is so dishonest and laughable that even someone like myself,who is aware of some of the TMT excesses,cannot stomack...Sure the TMT exploited the fear that was there to try to steer the TCs in one direction,but to suggest that they implanted the fear there in the first place ,and the GCs had nothing to do with it, is an absurd and immoral proposition...I am surprised you do not see it as such!
Again, no one should or can deny the above statement. I certainly do not. Both the EOKA-B and the TMT did their worst. It's just that some "beat their wives more times than the other". Neither one can be excused of their actions, and that's my point in this discussion.!
The trouble is that each did not just beat their own wives,they tried to beat each other's wives and children as well...And since the TCs were outnumbered 5 to 1,they were the ones in danger of coming out not just black and blue,but they were in danger of being beaten to a pulp...And this is what the RoC propaganda machine is trying to make the world forget...It is our moral duty,I believe,as eye witnesses to that bloody Cyprus history,to tell the truth,and not let them get away with it...
Among us Turkish speaking Cypriots I know only of three who can remember the events of 1963;Myself, you and Kiks. There might be a few more. How many GCs on the forum have witnessed anything from 1963.
I knoe our friend Piratis remembers 1958 well - almost as if he was present at the evnts (which did take place btw)
That's right, Deniz. We were the eyewitnesses to the 1963 events. Just as I said in my analogy to VP, that it was like being at a football match, watching the same game, but all sitting at different locations at the stadium, in which at times, we saw the "game" up close and personal and other times, from afar. We are indisputably the true witnesses to the 1963 events. We are the "Three Musketeers", and if others wants to add their names to the list, we'll be more than happy to make them the "1963 musketeers" also.!
