Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

It is a naive, wishful thinking(if that is the right term),and naked propaganda, to suggest that the TCs were mostly afraid of the TMT in their abandoning their centuries old ancestral villages and lands in 1963-67 period...Certainly the TMT tried in their primitive way to influence the TC thinking regarding coperating with the GCs,but without a lot of help from the GCs the TMT had no chance of getting the TCs to do what they wanted...Ive told this before :the TMT tried to ban speaking of Cypriot Greek at one stage...for every word uttered in Greek one was to be fined 2 shillings...My grandmother spoke better Greek than Turkish (as most people did in the Paphos area) so there was no way she could stop even if she wanted to...So there were a lot of Greek whispered in her house,but do you think any of her grandchildren dared to dob her in??? We were more afraid of her than the TMT!!!!

So to say that it was the TMT that oppressed the TCs is saying that the GCs had nothing at all to do with it,which is total bollocks,as those of us who lived through those dark times know very well...

Bir, I don't think anyone is denying that EOKA-B were no friends to the TCs, and that their main goal was enosis, but at the same time, the TMT were no friends to the TCs who did not want partition either. If the TMT were the spearhead to bring about partition, how else could they do it if they too did not treat the TCs badly, in order to force them to the northern part of Cyprus from the southern side. Lets face it, "eggs had to be broken, if they were ever going to make that omelette", don't you think.??

The role of the TMT in oppressing the TCs is largely exaggerated,Kikapu...
For most TCs,for most of the time,the TMT could do no wrong...They were largely considered as heros who stood between them (the TCs) and total annihilation...

It may well have been, Bir, but I don't think the issue is about "quantity" so much, but more to do with "quality". In other words, did the TMT in fact intimidate at times to keep the TCs in line, as well as protected the TCs.?? It's all a question of just "how many times the wife was beaten, once a week or once a month."!

The point I was trying to make,not very clearly it seems is this,Kikapu...There is a big effort from the RoC official propaganda/disinformation apparatus to absolve themselves from any guilt,and blame the TMT and Turkey for every calamity which was brought upon Cyprus...They are even denying that EOKA and Enosis dream had anything to with it...We,I mean the TCs,cannot remain silent on this...Especially those of us who lived through the worse of it,and know exactly what went on...Sure the TMT used every tactic in their arsenal to advance what they believed to be the just/good cause of the TCs...But without the dreaded EOKA and the push for Enosis they had little chance of changing the course of history...Those who want to rewrite history want us to forget this fact...

This did not come about because of fear of the TMT,but because of the fear of Enosis and EOKA and all the big and small humiliations and attrocities the TCs had to suffer in the hands of the GC state officials and paramilitaries during those dark years...No one,including yourself ,can absolve the GCs (the state apparatus not the people!) of their crimes against TCs...

And no one should or can deny the above statement either. Most definitely not by me, since I had already stated in my last post that the EOKA-B was not the friends of the TCs, or even with some of the GCs. The TMT also did their dirty works on the TCs too. You were virtually kidnapped until your father agreed to what ever the TMT wanted from him. Lets not forget, that the TMT also sent a hit-man after your father, which you gave us full account as to what happened here on the Cyprus Forum. One wanted Enosis and the wanted partition no matter what. Did I miss anything.??

Let me set the record straight on this issue...I was under the impression for most of life that it was the TMT who were responsible for certain events in my life which I have described in my "Dairy" thread back in 2007...Incredibly,as I was writing that thread I heard that the "would-be -assassin" was visiting Sydney...I seeked him out and we had a very interesting conversation about those events...He told me himself that he has little doubt now it was the TMT's local area commander who had organised my kidnapping and Father's assassination attempt,over a very personal matter...He said a lot of that went on behind the scenes.People in influencial positions abused their power often to take care of their private grudges...I have no doubt some of that went on within the EOKA as well...power corrupts and unquestioned power...you know the rest...

It is now official GC state propaganda to rewrite history and try to suggest that Taksim came before Enosis,and it was all the TMT's underhanded ways which forced the TCs into enclaves,and out of government during 1964-74 period..

Bir, by 1963 it no longer mattered what came first, Enosis or Taksim, because it was already established by 1960 that both Enosis and Taksim was in full swing, hence the 1960 constitution. It was never meant to work and it didn't. It was designed to bring about either Enosis or Taksim, therefore, it is totally irrelevant what came first or happened as a subsequent. According to a posting Bananiot made a while back, it stated that by 1967 Makarios's Enosios dreams were no longer, but the same could not be said of Denktash's Taksim dreams. Even today, the Taksim dreams are alive in the north, which is also the reason as to why a settlement cannot be reached.


It would be irrevelant which came first if the RoC propaganda/disinformation activities did not of late concentrate on Taksim,and try to paint it as the cause of all the troubles...But you know and I know and most of the posters here know that the Enosis with Greece dream goes back to 1821...At that time even the words "Turkish" and "nationalism" were totally unkown...So in the light of the RoC denials and accusations it is important and relevant to remember which came first...The Enosis dream was extinguished out of necessity...The powers that be realised they just couldn't bring it about...And the Taksim dream remains alive in certain quarters also because of necessity...You must know that the TCs had nowhere else to turn to for their survival (both physical and cultural/social survival as a unique community) but to Turkey...The bloody minded and intransigent insistance on Enosis,and the means they employed to achive it simply made it a matter of life and death for the TCs to embrace their "Turkishness"...All the political manouvering since 1974 reenforced the TCs dependence on Turkey,to the point that a Unitary state idea now seems dead and buried....The lions share of the blame for that belongs to our GC compatriots,and one day they will hve to admit it and appologise for it...

This is so dishonest and laughable that even someone like myself,who is aware of some of the TMT excesses,cannot stomack...Sure the TMT exploited the fear that was there to try to steer the TCs in one direction,but to suggest that they implanted the fear there in the first place ,and the GCs had nothing to do with it, is an absurd and immoral proposition...I am surprised you do not see it as such!

Again, no one should or can deny the above statement. I certainly do not. Both the EOKA-B and the TMT did their worst. It's just that some "beat their wives more times than the other". Neither one can be excused of their actions, and that's my point in this discussion.!

The trouble is that each did not just beat their own wives,they tried to beat each other's wives and children as well...And since the TCs were outnumbered 5 to 1,they were the ones in danger of coming out not just black and blue,but they were in danger of being beaten to a pulp...And this is what the RoC propaganda machine is trying to make the world forget...It is our moral duty,I believe,as eye witnesses to that bloody Cyprus history,to tell the truth,and not let them get away with it...

Excellent post Bir, thank you.

[All4114All]

Extracts from Harry Scott Gibbons' “The Genocide Files”

Quit making a total fool of yourself!

http://thecyprusproblem.100webspace.net ... icle01.htm

I thought after 26000+ posts you would be smarter but allow a fool to teach a even bigger fool like yourself a lesson.

First you say

You also forget that TCs manhandled senior UN officers and murdered I think two UN privates during that year!

then you paste the link of UNFICYP to back up your post with evidence
but yet the link site has no numbers of UN casualties or murder written.

Then you paste your own hosted website giving me the definition of crediable evidence.

What is so crediable about your post of accusing T/C murdering UN privates then having no evidence to back it up. When my posts are extracts meaning they are copied and pasted not speaking out of my ass as you did and having no truth behind the post.

You might need time to read your own website. People should stick to facts like yourself 'severe friction' does not mean 'Two UN privates murdered' Please find me crediable evidence of these two UN privates killed by T/C and I'll be happy to say it was something I was not aware of but thank you for informing me.

[Get Real!]

You might need time to read your own website. People should stick to facts like yourself 'severe friction' does not mean 'Two UN privates murdered' Please find me crediable evidence of these two UN privates killed by T/C and I'll be happy to say it was something I was not aware of but thank you for informing me.

That’s because you ASSUME they were killed during that same incident when they manhandled another two!

Trust unkie GR when he tells you that TCs KILLED TWO UN OFFICERS (1964? 1967?) for which I'm sure I've got a credible link somewhere, but of course it wasn't my intention to post links back then and I can't be bothered now either because I'm busy working.

[Gasman]

I'm sure I've got a credible link somewhere

Not really good enough for someone who INSISTS on them from everyone else!

Now where did he put it? Where did he see it last?

[wyoming cowboy]

It is a naive, wishful thinking(if that is the right term),and naked propaganda, to suggest that the TCs were mostly afraid of the TMT in their abandoning their centuries old ancestral villages and lands in 1963-67 period...Certainly the TMT tried in their primitive way to influence the TC thinking regarding coperating with the GCs,but without a lot of help from the GCs the TMT had no chance of getting the TCs to do what they wanted...Ive told this before :the TMT tried to ban speaking of Cypriot Greek at one stage...for every word uttered in Greek one was to be fined 2 shillings...My grandmother spoke better Greek than Turkish (as most people did in the Paphos area) so there was no way she could stop even if she wanted to...So there were a lot of Greek whispered in her house,but do you think any of her grandchildren dared to dob her in??? We were more afraid of her than the TMT!!!!

So to say that it was the TMT that oppressed the TCs is saying that the GCs had nothing at all to do with it,which is total bollocks,as those of us who lived through those dark times know very well...

Bir, I don't think anyone is denying that EOKA-B were no friends to the TCs, and that their main goal was enosis, but at the same time, the TMT were no friends to the TCs who did not want partition either. If the TMT were the spearhead to bring about partition, how else could they do it if they too did not treat the TCs badly, in order to force them to the northern part of Cyprus from the southern side. Lets face it, "eggs had to be broken, if they were ever going to make that omelette", don't you think.??

The role of the TMT in oppressing the TCs is largely exaggerated,Kikapu...
For most TCs,for most of the time,the TMT could do no wrong...They were largely considered as heros who stood between them (the TCs) and total annihilation...

It may well have been, Bir, but I don't think the issue is about "quantity" so much, but more to do with "quality". In other words, did the TMT in fact intimidate at times to keep the TCs in line, as well as protected the TCs.?? It's all a question of just "how many times the wife was beaten, once a week or once a month."!

The point I was trying to make,not very clearly it seems is this,Kikapu...There is a big effort from the RoC official propaganda/disinformation apparatus to absolve themselves from any guilt,and blame the TMT and Turkey for every calamity which was brought upon Cyprus...They are even denying that EOKA and Enosis dream had anything to with it...We,I mean the TCs,cannot remain silent on this...Especially those of us who lived through the worse of it,and know exactly what went on...Sure the TMT used every tactic in their arsenal to advance what they believed to be the just/good cause of the TCs...But without the dreaded EOKA and the push for Enosis they had little chance of changing the course of history...Those who want to rewrite history want us to forget this fact...

This did not come about because of fear of the TMT,but because of the fear of Enosis and EOKA and all the big and small humiliations and attrocities the TCs had to suffer in the hands of the GC state officials and paramilitaries during those dark years...No one,including yourself ,can absolve the GCs (the state apparatus not the people!) of their crimes against TCs...

And no one should or can deny the above statement either. Most definitely not by me, since I had already stated in my last post that the EOKA-B was not the friends of the TCs, or even with some of the GCs. The TMT also did their dirty works on the TCs too. You were virtually kidnapped until your father agreed to what ever the TMT wanted from him. Lets not forget, that the TMT also sent a hit-man after your father, which you gave us full account as to what happened here on the Cyprus Forum. One wanted Enosis and the wanted partition no matter what. Did I miss anything.??

Let me set the record straight on this issue...I was under the impression for most of life that it was the TMT who were responsible for certain events in my life which I have described in my "Dairy" thread back in 2007...Incredibly,as I was writing that thread I heard that the "would-be -assassin" was visiting Sydney...I seeked him out and we had a very interesting conversation about those events...He told me himself that he has little doubt now it was the TMT's local area commander who had organised my kidnapping and Father's assassination attempt,over a very personal matter...He said a lot of that went on behind the scenes.People in influencial positions abused their power often to take care of their private grudges...I have no doubt some of that went on within the EOKA as well...power corrupts and unquestioned power...you know the rest...

It is now official GC state propaganda to rewrite history and try to suggest that Taksim came before Enosis,and it was all the TMT's underhanded ways which forced the TCs into enclaves,and out of government during 1964-74 period..

Bir, by 1963 it no longer mattered what came first, Enosis or Taksim, because it was already established by 1960 that both Enosis and Taksim was in full swing, hence the 1960 constitution. It was never meant to work and it didn't. It was designed to bring about either Enosis or Taksim, therefore, it is totally irrelevant what came first or happened as a subsequent. According to a posting Bananiot made a while back, it stated that by 1967 Makarios's Enosios dreams were no longer, but the same could not be said of Denktash's Taksim dreams. Even today, the Taksim dreams are alive in the north, which is also the reason as to why a settlement cannot be reached.


It would be irrevelant which came first if the RoC propaganda/disinformation activities did not of late concentrate on Taksim,and try to paint it as the cause of all the troubles...But you know and I know and most of the posters here know that the Enosis with Greece dream goes back to 1821...At that time even the words "Turkish" and "nationalism" were totally unkown...So in the light of the RoC denials and accusations it is important and relevant to remember which came first...The Enosis dream was extinguished out of necessity...The powers that be realised they just couldn't bring it about...And the Taksim dream remains alive in certain quarters also because of necessity...You must know that the TCs had nowhere else to turn to for their survival (both physical and cultural/social survival as a unique community) but to Turkey...The bloody minded and intransigent insistance on Enosis,and the means they employed to achive it simply made it a matter of life and death for the TCs to embrace their "Turkishness"...All the political manouvering since 1974 reenforced the TCs dependence on Turkey,to the point that a Unitary state idea now seems dead and buried....The lions share of the blame for that belongs to our GC compatriots,and one day they will hve to admit it and appologise for it...

This is so dishonest and laughable that even someone like myself,who is aware of some of the TMT excesses,cannot stomack...Sure the TMT exploited the fear that was there to try to steer the TCs in one direction,but to suggest that they implanted the fear there in the first place ,and the GCs had nothing to do with it, is an absurd and immoral proposition...I am surprised you do not see it as such!

Again, no one should or can deny the above statement. I certainly do not. Both the EOKA-B and the TMT did their worst. It's just that some "beat their wives more times than the other". Neither one can be excused of their actions, and that's my point in this discussion.!

The trouble is that each did not just beat their own wives,they tried to beat each other's wives and children as well...And since the TCs were outnumbered 5 to 1,they were the ones in danger of coming out not just black and blue,but they were in danger of being beaten to a pulp...And this is what the RoC propaganda machine is trying to make the world forget...It is our moral duty,I believe,as eye witnesses to that bloody Cyprus history,to tell the truth,and not let them get away with it...

Bir, I understand your aprehensions, but there are certain facts that need to be addressed, the militias that did these things to the tc's were not supported by the gc population, they may have comprised of no more then 100 individuals, that when found out were arrested, by the ROC government, the coup against Makarios was instigated by the junta mostly for not going after the Tc. Ethnic conflict was not the issue on the problem with Cyprus, the issue was the cold war, when you have external instigators ie Turkey, Britain, Nato, the Greek junta instigating both militia groups against one another. how can you state that there was ethnic conflict when both groups were working with each other and living in the same villages without incident.

[BirKibrisli]

It is a naive, wishful thinking(if that is the right term),and naked propaganda, to suggest that the TCs were mostly afraid of the TMT in their abandoning their centuries old ancestral villages and lands in 1963-67 period...Certainly the TMT tried in their primitive way to influence the TC thinking regarding coperating with the GCs,but without a lot of help from the GCs the TMT had no chance of getting the TCs to do what they wanted...Ive told this before :the TMT tried to ban speaking of Cypriot Greek at one stage...for every word uttered in Greek one was to be fined 2 shillings...My grandmother spoke better Greek than Turkish (as most people did in the Paphos area) so there was no way she could stop even if she wanted to...So there were a lot of Greek whispered in her house,but do you think any of her grandchildren dared to dob her in??? We were more afraid of her than the TMT!!!!

So to say that it was the TMT that oppressed the TCs is saying that the GCs had nothing at all to do with it,which is total bollocks,as those of us who lived through those dark times know very well...

Bir, I don't think anyone is denying that EOKA-B were no friends to the TCs, and that their main goal was enosis, but at the same time, the TMT were no friends to the TCs who did not want partition either. If the TMT were the spearhead to bring about partition, how else could they do it if they too did not treat the TCs badly, in order to force them to the northern part of Cyprus from the southern side. Lets face it, "eggs had to be broken, if they were ever going to make that omelette", don't you think.??

The role of the TMT in oppressing the TCs is largely exaggerated,Kikapu...
For most TCs,for most of the time,the TMT could do no wrong...They were largely considered as heros who stood between them (the TCs) and total annihilation...

It may well have been, Bir, but I don't think the issue is about "quantity" so much, but more to do with "quality". In other words, did the TMT in fact intimidate at times to keep the TCs in line, as well as protected the TCs.?? It's all a question of just "how many times the wife was beaten, once a week or once a month."!

The point I was trying to make,not very clearly it seems is this,Kikapu...There is a big effort from the RoC official propaganda/disinformation apparatus to absolve themselves from any guilt,and blame the TMT and Turkey for every calamity which was brought upon Cyprus...They are even denying that EOKA and Enosis dream had anything to with it...We,I mean the TCs,cannot remain silent on this...Especially those of us who lived through the worse of it,and know exactly what went on...Sure the TMT used every tactic in their arsenal to advance what they believed to be the just/good cause of the TCs...But without the dreaded EOKA and the push for Enosis they had little chance of changing the course of history...Those who want to rewrite history want us to forget this fact...

This did not come about because of fear of the TMT,but because of the fear of Enosis and EOKA and all the big and small humiliations and attrocities the TCs had to suffer in the hands of the GC state officials and paramilitaries during those dark years...No one,including yourself ,can absolve the GCs (the state apparatus not the people!) of their crimes against TCs...

And no one should or can deny the above statement either. Most definitely not by me, since I had already stated in my last post that the EOKA-B was not the friends of the TCs, or even with some of the GCs. The TMT also did their dirty works on the TCs too. You were virtually kidnapped until your father agreed to what ever the TMT wanted from him. Lets not forget, that the TMT also sent a hit-man after your father, which you gave us full account as to what happened here on the Cyprus Forum. One wanted Enosis and the wanted partition no matter what. Did I miss anything.??

Let me set the record straight on this issue...I was under the impression for most of life that it was the TMT who were responsible for certain events in my life which I have described in my "Dairy" thread back in 2007...Incredibly,as I was writing that thread I heard that the "would-be -assassin" was visiting Sydney...I seeked him out and we had a very interesting conversation about those events...He told me himself that he has little doubt now it was the TMT's local area commander who had organised my kidnapping and Father's assassination attempt,over a very personal matter...He said a lot of that went on behind the scenes.People in influencial positions abused their power often to take care of their private grudges...I have no doubt some of that went on within the EOKA as well...power corrupts and unquestioned power...you know the rest...

It is now official GC state propaganda to rewrite history and try to suggest that Taksim came before Enosis,and it was all the TMT's underhanded ways which forced the TCs into enclaves,and out of government during 1964-74 period..

Bir, by 1963 it no longer mattered what came first, Enosis or Taksim, because it was already established by 1960 that both Enosis and Taksim was in full swing, hence the 1960 constitution. It was never meant to work and it didn't. It was designed to bring about either Enosis or Taksim, therefore, it is totally irrelevant what came first or happened as a subsequent. According to a posting Bananiot made a while back, it stated that by 1967 Makarios's Enosios dreams were no longer, but the same could not be said of Denktash's Taksim dreams. Even today, the Taksim dreams are alive in the north, which is also the reason as to why a settlement cannot be reached.


It would be irrevelant which came first if the RoC propaganda/disinformation activities did not of late concentrate on Taksim,and try to paint it as the cause of all the troubles...But you know and I know and most of the posters here know that the Enosis with Greece dream goes back to 1821...At that time even the words "Turkish" and "nationalism" were totally unkown...So in the light of the RoC denials and accusations it is important and relevant to remember which came first...The Enosis dream was extinguished out of necessity...The powers that be realised they just couldn't bring it about...And the Taksim dream remains alive in certain quarters also because of necessity...You must know that the TCs had nowhere else to turn to for their survival (both physical and cultural/social survival as a unique community) but to Turkey...The bloody minded and intransigent insistance on Enosis,and the means they employed to achive it simply made it a matter of life and death for the TCs to embrace their "Turkishness"...All the political manouvering since 1974 reenforced the TCs dependence on Turkey,to the point that a Unitary state idea now seems dead and buried....The lions share of the blame for that belongs to our GC compatriots,and one day they will hve to admit it and appologise for it...

This is so dishonest and laughable that even someone like myself,who is aware of some of the TMT excesses,cannot stomack...Sure the TMT exploited the fear that was there to try to steer the TCs in one direction,but to suggest that they implanted the fear there in the first place ,and the GCs had nothing to do with it, is an absurd and immoral proposition...I am surprised you do not see it as such!

Again, no one should or can deny the above statement. I certainly do not. Both the EOKA-B and the TMT did their worst. It's just that some "beat their wives more times than the other". Neither one can be excused of their actions, and that's my point in this discussion.!

The trouble is that each did not just beat their own wives,they tried to beat each other's wives and children as well...And since the TCs were outnumbered 5 to 1,they were the ones in danger of coming out not just black and blue,but they were in danger of being beaten to a pulp...And this is what the RoC propaganda machine is trying to make the world forget...It is our moral duty,I believe,as eye witnesses to that bloody Cyprus history,to tell the truth,and not let them get away with it...

Excellent post Bir, thank you.

You are welcome!

[BirKibrisli]

It is a naive, wishful thinking(if that is the right term),and naked propaganda, to suggest that the TCs were mostly afraid of the TMT in their abandoning their centuries old ancestral villages and lands in 1963-67 period...Certainly the TMT tried in their primitive way to influence the TC thinking regarding coperating with the GCs,but without a lot of help from the GCs the TMT had no chance of getting the TCs to do what they wanted...Ive told this before :the TMT tried to ban speaking of Cypriot Greek at one stage...for every word uttered in Greek one was to be fined 2 shillings...My grandmother spoke better Greek than Turkish (as most people did in the Paphos area) so there was no way she could stop even if she wanted to...So there were a lot of Greek whispered in her house,but do you think any of her grandchildren dared to dob her in??? We were more afraid of her than the TMT!!!!

So to say that it was the TMT that oppressed the TCs is saying that the GCs had nothing at all to do with it,which is total bollocks,as those of us who lived through those dark times know very well...

Bir, I don't think anyone is denying that EOKA-B were no friends to the TCs, and that their main goal was enosis, but at the same time, the TMT were no friends to the TCs who did not want partition either. If the TMT were the spearhead to bring about partition, how else could they do it if they too did not treat the TCs badly, in order to force them to the northern part of Cyprus from the southern side. Lets face it, "eggs had to be broken, if they were ever going to make that omelette", don't you think.??

The role of the TMT in oppressing the TCs is largely exaggerated,Kikapu...
For most TCs,for most of the time,the TMT could do no wrong...They were largely considered as heros who stood between them (the TCs) and total annihilation...

It may well have been, Bir, but I don't think the issue is about "quantity" so much, but more to do with "quality". In other words, did the TMT in fact intimidate at times to keep the TCs in line, as well as protected the TCs.?? It's all a question of just "how many times the wife was beaten, once a week or once a month."!

The point I was trying to make,not very clearly it seems is this,Kikapu...There is a big effort from the RoC official propaganda/disinformation apparatus to absolve themselves from any guilt,and blame the TMT and Turkey for every calamity which was brought upon Cyprus...They are even denying that EOKA and Enosis dream had anything to with it...We,I mean the TCs,cannot remain silent on this...Especially those of us who lived through the worse of it,and know exactly what went on...Sure the TMT used every tactic in their arsenal to advance what they believed to be the just/good cause of the TCs...But without the dreaded EOKA and the push for Enosis they had little chance of changing the course of history...Those who want to rewrite history want us to forget this fact...

This did not come about because of fear of the TMT,but because of the fear of Enosis and EOKA and all the big and small humiliations and attrocities the TCs had to suffer in the hands of the GC state officials and paramilitaries during those dark years...No one,including yourself ,can absolve the GCs (the state apparatus not the people!) of their crimes against TCs...

And no one should or can deny the above statement either. Most definitely not by me, since I had already stated in my last post that the EOKA-B was not the friends of the TCs, or even with some of the GCs. The TMT also did their dirty works on the TCs too. You were virtually kidnapped until your father agreed to what ever the TMT wanted from him. Lets not forget, that the TMT also sent a hit-man after your father, which you gave us full account as to what happened here on the Cyprus Forum. One wanted Enosis and the wanted partition no matter what. Did I miss anything.??

Let me set the record straight on this issue...I was under the impression for most of life that it was the TMT who were responsible for certain events in my life which I have described in my "Dairy" thread back in 2007...Incredibly,as I was writing that thread I heard that the "would-be -assassin" was visiting Sydney...I seeked him out and we had a very interesting conversation about those events...He told me himself that he has little doubt now it was the TMT's local area commander who had organised my kidnapping and Father's assassination attempt,over a very personal matter...He said a lot of that went on behind the scenes.People in influencial positions abused their power often to take care of their private grudges...I have no doubt some of that went on within the EOKA as well...power corrupts and unquestioned power...you know the rest...

It is now official GC state propaganda to rewrite history and try to suggest that Taksim came before Enosis,and it was all the TMT's underhanded ways which forced the TCs into enclaves,and out of government during 1964-74 period..

Bir, by 1963 it no longer mattered what came first, Enosis or Taksim, because it was already established by 1960 that both Enosis and Taksim was in full swing, hence the 1960 constitution. It was never meant to work and it didn't. It was designed to bring about either Enosis or Taksim, therefore, it is totally irrelevant what came first or happened as a subsequent. According to a posting Bananiot made a while back, it stated that by 1967 Makarios's Enosios dreams were no longer, but the same could not be said of Denktash's Taksim dreams. Even today, the Taksim dreams are alive in the north, which is also the reason as to why a settlement cannot be reached.


It would be irrevelant which came first if the RoC propaganda/disinformation activities did not of late concentrate on Taksim,and try to paint it as the cause of all the troubles...But you know and I know and most of the posters here know that the Enosis with Greece dream goes back to 1821...At that time even the words "Turkish" and "nationalism" were totally unkown...So in the light of the RoC denials and accusations it is important and relevant to remember which came first...The Enosis dream was extinguished out of necessity...The powers that be realised they just couldn't bring it about...And the Taksim dream remains alive in certain quarters also because of necessity...You must know that the TCs had nowhere else to turn to for their survival (both physical and cultural/social survival as a unique community) but to Turkey...The bloody minded and intransigent insistance on Enosis,and the means they employed to achive it simply made it a matter of life and death for the TCs to embrace their "Turkishness"...All the political manouvering since 1974 reenforced the TCs dependence on Turkey,to the point that a Unitary state idea now seems dead and buried....The lions share of the blame for that belongs to our GC compatriots,and one day they will hve to admit it and appologise for it...

This is so dishonest and laughable that even someone like myself,who is aware of some of the TMT excesses,cannot stomack...Sure the TMT exploited the fear that was there to try to steer the TCs in one direction,but to suggest that they implanted the fear there in the first place ,and the GCs had nothing to do with it, is an absurd and immoral proposition...I am surprised you do not see it as such!

Again, no one should or can deny the above statement. I certainly do not. Both the EOKA-B and the TMT did their worst. It's just that some "beat their wives more times than the other". Neither one can be excused of their actions, and that's my point in this discussion.!

The trouble is that each did not just beat their own wives,they tried to beat each other's wives and children as well...And since the TCs were outnumbered 5 to 1,they were the ones in danger of coming out not just black and blue,but they were in danger of being beaten to a pulp...And this is what the RoC propaganda machine is trying to make the world forget...It is our moral duty,I believe,as eye witnesses to that bloody Cyprus history,to tell the truth,and not let them get away with it...

Bir, I understand your aprehensions, but there are certain facts that need to be addressed, the militias that did these things to the tc's were not supported by the gc population, they may have comprised of no more then 100 individuals, that when found out were arrested, by the ROC government, the coup against Makarios was instigated by the junta mostly for not going after the Tc. Ethnic conflict was not the issue on the problem with Cyprus, the issue was the cold war, when you have external instigators ie Turkey, Britain, Nato, the Greek junta instigating both militia groups against one another. how can you state that there was ethnic conflict when both groups were working with each other and living in the same villages without incident.

I don't know where you are getting your information,WC,but it is mostly sanitised...Here is the picture looking through TC eyes: Makarios was vowing to fight for Enosis with Greece even when he was signing the international agreements to bring about the RoC...Not long after the AKRITAS plan was hatched with the President's approval,to rob the TCs of any political power,and advance the cause of Union with Greece...within 3 years the two communities were in hot armed conflict,which resulted in the TCs withdrawing into safe enclaves for fear of their lives...The RoC Interior Minister,a certain Mr Yorgadjis, was the politcal master and operational director of the EOKA remnants which you call militias...Nothing happened without his knowledge or approval...Another fanatical Enosis supporter and famed architect of the Akritas plan,Mr Papadopoulos,was a junior but infulential minister in the original RoC government led by Makarios...From 1964 onwards there was little interaction between the two communities..The TCs were left out in the cold surviving the best they can in a hostile country run by a government which considered them little more than pests who stood between them and their God-inspired historical struggle for Union with Greece...Until you come to grips with this way of looking to the problem,and realising the germinal truth in it you will not understand the true nature of what we came to know as the Cyprus Problem...

[denizaksulu]

You might need time to read your own website. People should stick to facts like yourself 'severe friction' does not mean 'Two UN privates murdered' Please find me crediable evidence of these two UN privates killed by T/C and I'll be happy to say it was something I was not aware of but thank you for informing me.

That’s because you ASSUME they were killed during that same incident when they manhandled another two!

Trust unkie GR when he tells you that TCs KILLED TWO UN OFFICERS (1964? 1967?) for which I'm sure I've got a credible link somewhere, but of course it wasn't my intention to post links back then and I can't be bothered now either because I'm busy working.

If you cannot provide the links on the 'alleged' murders then change your signature GR or better still stop posting unsubstantiated garbage, for that is what it is -till the evidence is put here. What a nincompoop

[Get Real!]

You might need time to read your own website. People should stick to facts like yourself 'severe friction' does not mean 'Two UN privates murdered' Please find me crediable evidence of these two UN privates killed by T/C and I'll be happy to say it was something I was not aware of but thank you for informing me.

That’s because you ASSUME they were killed during that same incident when they manhandled another two!

Trust unkie GR when he tells you that TCs KILLED TWO UN OFFICERS (1964? 1967?) for which I'm sure I've got a credible link somewhere, but of course it wasn't my intention to post links back then and I can't be bothered now either because I'm busy working.

If you cannot provide the links on the 'alleged' murders then change your signature GR or better still stop posting unsubstantiated garbage, for that is what it is -till the evidence is put here. What a nincompoop

I'm getting warmer and warmer, yet the specific link that leads to my exact claim eludes me...

Despite UNFICYP's efforts, sporadic violence continued on the island after the force became operational, punctuated by outbreaks of severe fighting in which United Nations troops would find themselves at times fired upon by both sides, and forced to return the fire. Serious incidents occurred in the Tylliria area on 4 April 1964, at Ayios Theodhoros on 22 April, and in the area north of Nicosia from 25 to 29 April. A number of UNFICYP soldiers were killed as they sought to carry out their duties during continued scattered fighting in May. A major outbreak of fighting occurred from 5 to 8 August in the Tylliria area, reducing the Turkish Cypriot bridgehead there to the village of Kokkina. This was followed by aerial attacks on government forces by Turkish fighter aircraft, and led on 8 and 9 August to meetings of the Security Council, which adopted resolution 193 (1964), which, inter alia, called for an immediate ceasefire. The governments of Cyprus and Turkey accepted the ceasefire without conditions.

http://www.unficyp.org/nqcontent.cfm?a_ ... ic&lang=l1

Yet another opportunity for you to act smart Deniz before I finally shove that cucumber well and truly...

[denizaksulu]

You might need time to read your own website. People should stick to facts like yourself 'severe friction' does not mean 'Two UN privates murdered' Please find me crediable evidence of these two UN privates killed by T/C and I'll be happy to say it was something I was not aware of but thank you for informing me.

That’s because you ASSUME they were killed during that same incident when they manhandled another two!

Trust unkie GR when he tells you that TCs KILLED TWO UN OFFICERS (1964? 1967?) for which I'm sure I've got a credible link somewhere, but of course it wasn't my intention to post links back then and I can't be bothered now either because I'm busy working.

If you cannot provide the links on the 'alleged' murders then change your signature GR or better still stop posting unsubstantiated garbage, for that is what it is -till the evidence is put here. What a nincompoop

I'm getting warmer and warmer, yet the specific link that leads to my exact claim eludes me...

Despite UNFICYP's efforts, sporadic violence continued on the island after the force became operational, punctuated by outbreaks of severe fighting in which United Nations troops would find themselves at times fired upon by both sides, and forced to return the fire. Serious incidents occurred in the Tylliria area on 4 April 1964, at Ayios Theodhoros on 22 April, and in the area north of Nicosia from 25 to 29 April. A number of UNFICYP soldiers were killed as they sought to carry out their duties during continued scattered fighting in May. A major outbreak of fighting occurred from 5 to 8 August in the Tylliria area, reducing the Turkish Cypriot bridgehead there to the village of Kokkina. This was followed by aerial attacks on government forces by Turkish fighter aircraft, and led on 8 and 9 August to meetings of the Security Council, which adopted resolution 193 (1964), which, inter alia, called for an immediate ceasefire. The governments of Cyprus and Turkey accepted the ceasefire without conditions.

http://www.unficyp.org/nqcontent.cfm?a_ ... ic&lang=l1

Yet another opportunity for you to act smart Deniz before I finally shove that cucumber well and truly...

I just ask you to stick to your own criteria GR. BTW, I hate cucumbers, keep it for yourself.

I know 27 UN personnel were killed and not all were by accident. I await or we await for your evidence that two were murdered by TCs.