Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

Kikapu

ou came on here telling me that I rejected an eyewitness accounts and I had asked you to name it, and you just threw Bir's name out there not having a clue what the hell you are talking about. Now, tell me what am I suppose to have refused to accept any of Bir's eye witness account.??

Ask Bir directly the number of times you have told him what he experienced, your posts are riddled with your arrogant despot mentality and everyone has read them so dont come the innocent now.

You have no business. Everything is controlled by Turkey, which you claim to be your roots, but your "roots" doesn't see you to have come from it's roots. This is my whole point, that you think you can be a Turk and Turkey is telling you, in your next life, Bozo.! If Turkey saw the TCs as one of them, why would they insist of 50% of all public jobs to be given to the settlers, the Turks. What difference would it make to Turkey who did those jobs as long as those living in the north had some "Turkish blood" in them. But they are making a distinction between the TCs and the settlers. They want the settlers to have 50% of those jobs.

I'm just laughing at you as to what a fool you have been in thinking you belonged to Turkey's roots. They are telling you, you don't, therefore hand over the jobs, chum. Next it will be the "trnc government" that Turkey will want to have it for it's own real people, the settlers, because the settlers come from Turkey's roots, but not you

You appear more concerned than we are, Ill repeat it again assimilation is happening we have accepted this fact, in 50 years no one will give a shit if we arrived 500 or 50 years ago as we will be so mixed together as one nation, just like any other country and this way we will continue to grow. Time you got yourself accustomed to this fact, we have.

[Viewpoint]

It is a naive, wishful thinking(if that is the right term),and naked propaganda, to suggest that the TCs were mostly afraid of the TMT in their abandoning their centuries old ancestral villages and lands in 1963-67 period...Certainly the TMT tried in their primitive way to influence the TC thinking regarding coperating with the GCs,but without a lot of help from the GCs the TMT had no chance of getting the TCs to do what they wanted...Ive told this before :the TMT tried to ban speaking of Cypriot Greek at one stage...for every word uttered in Greek one was to be fined 2 shillings...My grandmother spoke better Greek than Turkish (as most people did in the Paphos area) so there was no way she could stop even if she wanted to...So there were a lot of Greek whispered in her house,but do you think any of her grandchildren dared to dob her in??? We were more afraid of her than the TMT!!!!

So to say that it was the TMT that oppressed the TCs is saying that the GCs had nothing at all to do with it,which is total bollocks,as those of us who lived through those dark times know very well...

Bir, I don't think anyone is denying that EOKA-B were no friends to the TCs, and that their main goal was enosis, but at the same time, the TMT were no friends to the TCs who did not want partition either. If the TMT were the spearhead to bring about partition, how else could they do it if they too did not treat the TCs badly, in order to force them to the northern part of Cyprus from the southern side. Lets face it, "eggs had to be broken, if they were ever going to make that omelette", don't you think.??

The role of the TMT in oppressing the TCs is largely exaggerated,Kikapu...
For most TCs,for most of the time,the TMT could do no wrong...They were largely considered as heros who stood between them (the TCs) and total annihilation...

It may well have been, Bir, but I don't think the issue is about "quantity" so much, but more to do with "quality". In other words, did the TMT in fact intimidate at times to keep the TCs in line, as well as protected the TCs.?? It's all a question of just "how many times the wife was beaten, once a week or once a month."!

This did not come about because of fear of the TMT,but because of the fear of Enosis and EOKA and all the big and small humiliations and attrocities the TCs had to suffer in the hands of the GC state officials and paramilitaries during those dark years...No one,including yourself ,can absolve the GCs (the state apparatus not the people!) of their crimes against TCs...

And no one should or can deny the above statement either. Most definitely not by me, since I had already stated in my last post that the EOKA-B was not the friends of the TCs, or even with some of the GCs. The TMT also did their dirty works on the TCs too. You were virtually kidnapped until your father agreed to what ever the TMT wanted from him. Lets not forget, that the TMT also sent a hit-man after your father, which you gave us full account as to what happened here on the Cyprus Forum. One wanted Enosis and the wanted partition no matter what. Did I miss anything.??

It is now official GC state propaganda to rewrite history and try to suggest that Taksim came before Enosis,and it was all the TMT's underhanded ways which forced the TCs into enclaves,and out of government during 1964-74 period..

Bir, by 1963 it no longer mattered what came first, Enosis or Taksim, because it was already established by 1960 that both Enosis and Taksim was in full swing, hence the 1960 constitution. It was never meant to work and it didn't. It was designed to bring about either Enosis or Taksim, therefore, it is totally irrelevant what came first or happened as a subsequent. According to a posting Bananiot made a while back, it stated that by 1967 Makarios's Enosios dreams were no longer, but the same could not be said of Denktash's Taksim dreams. Even today, the Taksim dreams are alive in the north, which is also the reason as to why a settlement cannot be reached.

This is so dishonest and laughable that even someone like myself,who is aware of some of the TMT excesses,cannot stomack...Sure the TMT exploited the fear that was there to try to steer the TCs in one direction,but to suggest that they implanted the fear there in the first place ,and the GCs had nothing to do with it, is an absurd and immoral proposition...I am surprised you do not see it as such!

Again, no one should or can deny the above statement. I certainly do not. Both the EOKA-B and the TMT did their worst. It's just that some "beat their wives more times than the other". Neither one can be excused of their actions, and that's my point in this discussion.!

Bir I'm sure you'll pick this snakes post to pieces, the number of times he twists and turns to suit his own aims of continuing to be the bandwagon of GC propaganda is unbelievable especially the part about where he makes excuses for enosis not being the trigger for Taksim, bloody inexcusable hes the GCs best whore.

[Kikapu]

It is a naive, wishful thinking(if that is the right term),and naked propaganda, to suggest that the TCs were mostly afraid of the TMT in their abandoning their centuries old ancestral villages and lands in 1963-67 period...Certainly the TMT tried in their primitive way to influence the TC thinking regarding coperating with the GCs,but without a lot of help from the GCs the TMT had no chance of getting the TCs to do what they wanted...Ive told this before :the TMT tried to ban speaking of Cypriot Greek at one stage...for every word uttered in Greek one was to be fined 2 shillings...My grandmother spoke better Greek than Turkish (as most people did in the Paphos area) so there was no way she could stop even if she wanted to...So there were a lot of Greek whispered in her house,but do you think any of her grandchildren dared to dob her in??? We were more afraid of her than the TMT!!!!

So to say that it was the TMT that oppressed the TCs is saying that the GCs had nothing at all to do with it,which is total bollocks,as those of us who lived through those dark times know very well...

Bir, I don't think anyone is denying that EOKA-B were no friends to the TCs, and that their main goal was enosis, but at the same time, the TMT were no friends to the TCs who did not want partition either. If the TMT were the spearhead to bring about partition, how else could they do it if they too did not treat the TCs badly, in order to force them to the northern part of Cyprus from the southern side. Lets face it, "eggs had to be broken, if they were ever going to make that omelette", don't you think.??

The role of the TMT in oppressing the TCs is largely exaggerated,Kikapu...
For most TCs,for most of the time,the TMT could do no wrong...They were largely considered as heros who stood between them (the TCs) and total annihilation...

It may well have been, Bir, but I don't think the issue is about "quantity" so much, but more to do with "quality". In other words, did the TMT in fact intimidate at times to keep the TCs in line, as well as protected the TCs.?? It's all a question of just "how many times the wife was beaten, once a week or once a month."!

This did not come about because of fear of the TMT,but because of the fear of Enosis and EOKA and all the big and small humiliations and attrocities the TCs had to suffer in the hands of the GC state officials and paramilitaries during those dark years...No one,including yourself ,can absolve the GCs (the state apparatus not the people!) of their crimes against TCs...

And no one should or can deny the above statement either. Most definitely not by me, since I had already stated in my last post that the EOKA-B was not the friends of the TCs, or even with some of the GCs. The TMT also did their dirty works on the TCs too. You were virtually kidnapped until your father agreed to what ever the TMT wanted from him. Lets not forget, that the TMT also sent a hit-man after your father, which you gave us full account as to what happened here on the Cyprus Forum. One wanted Enosis and the wanted partition no matter what. Did I miss anything.??

It is now official GC state propaganda to rewrite history and try to suggest that Taksim came before Enosis,and it was all the TMT's underhanded ways which forced the TCs into enclaves,and out of government during 1964-74 period..

Bir, by 1963 it no longer mattered what came first, Enosis or Taksim, because it was already established by 1960 that both Enosis and Taksim was in full swing, hence the 1960 constitution. It was never meant to work and it didn't. It was designed to bring about either Enosis or Taksim, therefore, it is totally irrelevant what came first or happened as a subsequent. According to a posting Bananiot made a while back, it stated that by 1967 Makarios's Enosios dreams were no longer, but the same could not be said of Denktash's Taksim dreams. Even today, the Taksim dreams are alive in the north, which is also the reason as to why a settlement cannot be reached.

This is so dishonest and laughable that even someone like myself,who is aware of some of the TMT excesses,cannot stomack...Sure the TMT exploited the fear that was there to try to steer the TCs in one direction,but to suggest that they implanted the fear there in the first place ,and the GCs had nothing to do with it, is an absurd and immoral proposition...I am surprised you do not see it as such!

Again, no one should or can deny the above statement. I certainly do not. Both the EOKA-B and the TMT did their worst. It's just that some "beat their wives more times than the other". Neither one can be excused of their actions, and that's my point in this discussion.!

Bir I'm sure you'll pick this snakes post to pieces, the number of times he twists and turns to suit his own aims of continuing to be the bandwagon of GC propaganda is unbelievable especially the part about where he makes excuses for enosis not being the trigger for Taksim, bloody inexcusable hes the GCs best whore.

Show me where I'm wrong in my above statement. Bir can do his own posting if he wants to. But let me see you tackle any of my above points, if you can.?

You are just pissed off because Turkey does not see you as a Turk and you being from it's own roots as you thought you were, but she sees you more like a wild weed that needs to be pulled completely out of the ground to be rid of any harm that you may bring to it's own roots. If that wasn't the case, VP, Turkey would not have demanded that 50% of the public sector jobs to be given to her own real people, from it's own roots, the settlers and not you, the unwanted tumbleweed.!

[Viewpoint]

Thank you for proving me right yet again by making up your own shit and then believing it, you are possessed and clearly the forum jester.

[Kikapu]

Thank you for proving me right yet again by making up your own shit and then believing it, you are possessed and clearly the forum jester.

I didn't make it up. It was discussed in the Westminster Hall debates.!

Turkey has effectively created a so-called state in northern Cyprus, to the detriment not only of the Greek Cypriots whose property was confiscated by the self-styled Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus but of the Turkish Cypriots who have suffered under Turkish rule by becoming a minority in the northern part of Cyprus. According to the Turkish Cypriot press, Turkey has transferred 180,000 settlers into northern Cyprus, with the consequence that Turkey has imposed its ideology there. More mosques than schools have been built in northern Cyprus-181 mosques to 162 schools-and the crime rate has soared due to uncontrolled immigration from Turkey. Education and health services are becoming overburdened. The Turkish Cypriot media also report that in order to enshrine the ideological shift further, Turkey is now demanding that settlers account for more than 50% of new appointments in the civil service, police, education and health services.

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/whall/?id ... -16a.212.0

[BirKibrisli]

The average TMT member or even leader and most of the Mucahits had no idea of the main aim of the TMT. As far as the population were concerned the TMT were formed as a defence against any attack on villages from the GC paramilitaries.
I agree that they did in fact pressurise the populace to minimise contact with the GC's which mostly went on regardless and the TMT were mostly ignored.

Yep,that is exactly how it was...Thank you,Deniz.

[Afroasiatis]

It is a naive, wishful thinking(if that is the right term),and naked propaganda, to suggest that the TCs were mostly afraid of the TMT in their abandoning their centuries old ancestral villages and lands in 1963-67 period...Certainly the TMT tried in their primitive way to influence the TC thinking regarding coperating with the GCs,but without a lot of help from the GCs the TMT had no chance of getting the TCs to do what they wanted...Ive told this before :the TMT tried to ban speaking of Cypriot Greek at one stage...for every word uttered in Greek one was to be fined 2 shillings...My grandmother spoke better Greek than Turkish (as most people did in the Paphos area) so there was no way she could stop even if she wanted to...So there were a lot of Greek whispered in her house,but do you think any of her grandchildren dared to dob her in??? We were more afraid of her than the TMT!!!!

So to say that it was the TMT that oppressed the TCs is saying that the GCs had nothing at all to do with it,which is total bollocks,as those of us who lived through those dark times know very well...

Bir, I don't think anyone is denying that EOKA-B were no friends to the TCs, and that their main goal was enosis, but at the same time, the TMT were no friends to the TCs who did not want partition either. If the TMT were the spearhead to bring about partition, how else could they do it if they too did not treat the TCs badly, in order to force them to the northern part of Cyprus from the southern side. Lets face it, "eggs had to be broken, if they were ever going to make that omelette", don't you think.??

The role of the TMT in oppressing the TCs is largely exaggerated,Kikapu...
For most TCs,for most of the time,the TMT could do no wrong...They were largely considered as heros who stood between them (the TCs) and total annihilation...

It may well have been, Bir, but I don't think the issue is about "quantity" so much, but more to do with "quality". In other words, did the TMT in fact intimidate at times to keep the TCs in line, as well as protected the TCs.?? It's all a question of just "how many times the wife was beaten, once a week or once a month."!

This did not come about because of fear of the TMT,but because of the fear of Enosis and EOKA and all the big and small humiliations and attrocities the TCs had to suffer in the hands of the GC state officials and paramilitaries during those dark years...No one,including yourself ,can absolve the GCs (the state apparatus not the people!) of their crimes against TCs...

And no one should or can deny the above statement either. Most definitely not by me, since I had already stated in my last post that the EOKA-B was not the friends of the TCs, or even with some of the GCs. The TMT also did their dirty works on the TCs too. You were virtually kidnapped until your father agreed to what ever the TMT wanted from him. Lets not forget, that the TMT also sent a hit-man after your father, which you gave us full account as to what happened here on the Cyprus Forum. One wanted Enosis and the wanted partition no matter what. Did I miss anything.??

It is now official GC state propaganda to rewrite history and try to suggest that Taksim came before Enosis,and it was all the TMT's underhanded ways which forced the TCs into enclaves,and out of government during 1964-74 period..

Bir, by 1963 it no longer mattered what came first, Enosis or Taksim, because it was already established by 1960 that both Enosis and Taksim was in full swing, hence the 1960 constitution. It was never meant to work and it didn't. It was designed to bring about either Enosis or Taksim, therefore, it is totally irrelevant what came first or happened as a subsequent. According to a posting Bananiot made a while back, it stated that by 1967 Makarios's Enosios dreams were no longer, but the same could not be said of Denktash's Taksim dreams. Even today, the Taksim dreams are alive in the north, which is also the reason as to why a settlement cannot be reached.

This is so dishonest and laughable that even someone like myself,who is aware of some of the TMT excesses,cannot stomack...Sure the TMT exploited the fear that was there to try to steer the TCs in one direction,but to suggest that they implanted the fear there in the first place ,and the GCs had nothing to do with it, is an absurd and immoral proposition...I am surprised you do not see it as such!

Again, no one should or can deny the above statement. I certainly do not. Both the EOKA-B and the TMT did their worst. It's just that some "beat their wives more times than the other". Neither one can be excused of their actions, and that's my point in this discussion.!

Kiks, you constantly refer to EOKA-B; Bir talks about 1963/4. Did EOKA-B exist then?

If you want to be technical about it, Deniz, then officially it was not, but those involved in making troubles from the GCs side from 1963's clashes between the TCs and the GCs most probably went on to became the EOKA-B.!

That's an interesting question, I wonder how much this is true. In the clashes of 1963/4 there were of course many GCs involved, both later followers and later opponents of Makarios. The three GC armed groups which were formed at that time were the ones under Yiorkatzis, Sampson and Lyssarides.

But I don't know how each of these groups acted (OK, except Sampson in Omorfita), and who belonged to which group (I guess though that most of the well-known persons were in the group of Yiorkatzis). I wouldn't be surprised if most of the persons who acted more brutally against TCs were the ones that later formed EOKA-B.

Is there anybody here who knows more on the subject?

[Viewpoint]

Kikapu these are just claims but you continue to shoot yourself in the foot with a fast increasing population and rise in jobs of course the majority of job will go to the new generation TCs this is only logical.

[Get Real!]

The role of the TMT in oppressing the TCs is largely exaggerated,Kikapu...

Keep making a complete fool of yourself...

From the Secretary-General of the United Nations in 1965:

"The Turkish Cypriot leaders have adhered to a rigid stand against any measures which might involve having members of the two communities live and work together, or which might place Turkish Cypriots in situations where they would have to acknowledge the authority of Government agents. Indeed, since the Turkish Cypriot leadership is committed to physical and geographical separation of the communities as a political goal, it is not likely to encourage activities by Turkish Cypriots which may be interpreted as demonstrating the merits of an alternative policy. The result has been a seemingly deliberate policy of self-segregation by the Turkish Cypriots"

UN document (S/6426)

It doesn’t get any more damning than this report by the UNSG!

[denizaksulu]

The year of the report is 1965

The above mentioned TMT actions were well before that; even well before 1960.