Cyprus-Forum.com

[avyixy]

I am so sorry to hear about your situation Janet.

I am sorry but I am appaled that some people are making comments about the punctuation and paragraphs in your post and turning this post into a joke when it is so serious. If they can't understand it (or don't want to understand it) then just read some other post and don't even comment. Stop making a mockery of the post because for the people that are living this, I assure you IT IS NO JOKE!!

I am a Greek Cypriot who moved to Cyprus 20 years ago. I have not been in the same situation regarding developers but I have had experience with Cypriot lawyers and it is disgraceful. I needed a lawyer for a maintenance agreement between me and my estranged husband. I went to a lady highly recommended, who in the end managed to get me the minimal amount because she kept saying that if we pushed the case we might loose even the minimal amount, and the Judge was known to side with the fathers in these cases!! And she never let me get a word in edgeways at our meetings. She always told me that I didn't understand what she was explaining. Let me tell you I understood exactly what she was saying but because I questioned her on everything she did, she just rambled and changed the direction of our conversationsl

She kept trying to persuade me to go ahead with a divorce and wanted me to sort out our properties and finances using her as my lawyer but my experience with her told me this would not be in my favour. All she wanted was to make more money from me.

So when I needed to sort out the house and custody of my youngest child, I found another lawyer who came highly recommended! Both me and my husband used the same lawyer because he could not afford to pay for another lawyer so we halved our expenses and everything was settled amicably. All the while the lawyer kept taking the piss and saying "you never know, you might get back together again" and laughing. But I let it slide and didn't take it seriously. However I did say that the reason we were there was to sort out our finances and not for him to make snide remarks about me and my husbands relationship.

After sorting this out, my husband stopped paying my eldest daughters maintenance because she had turned 18. So after she got accepted into uni I had to go to the lawyer again and see what I could do about maintenance for her. To my disgust the lawyer seemed to have sided with my husband telling me that even if we went to court the judge might take pity on him and deduct maintenance from the two youngest children in order to give it to my oldest daughter. However this was not the worst of it. He actually told me that I should consider finding a rich divorcee and marry him so that he could support my children. I was shocked to hear these words coming from someone who supposedly has been well educated and I am not ashamed to say as a 42 year old lady I expected some respect from a thirty something upstart lawyer and would never in my wildest dreams expect a professional to hand out this type of advice. I told him that I was not there to listen to him making stupid comments but was there asking for professional advice based on his experience. I couldn't get out of there quick enough!! Needless to say I left his office and never went back.

I am now waiting to see what grants my daughter will be given because these must be taken into consideration regaring her expenses and then I must find myself a new lawyer to make a new maintenance claim for my daughter - a task I am not looking forward to.

I have asked around and have tried to find out if there is some sort of establishement where a citizen can go to be advised on any professional liscencee's abilities or track records but I have had no luck. As a citizen you are expected to find the professionals you need by trial and error be they lawyers, doctors, dentists etc. and sometimes these errors come with a very hight cost to the client.

My point being that in Cyprus, no matter how hard the Cypriots make out that they have deveoped into a European country, compared to other countries, they are way behind in every aspect and I doubt they will ever catch up because of this "boys club" attitude they have.

And no matter how many years I live in this country I will never come to accept this, as my experiences have been vast whether it is looking for a job or going to the hospital for a routine check up. If you don't know the right people you have to struggle to be heard!!!

[BigDutch]

"He seemed to be working more for the developer than us, the reason being he was his lawyer and ours at the same time."

It should be pointed out that a certain level of shrewdness is a basic prerequisite for anyone intending to engage in any kind of financial transactions in a foreign country.

Surely being shrewd would be getting the professional legal advice to manage the transaction of buying the home. I, for one, would assume that it it would be bad practice, to say the least, for a legal firm to be engaged by both buyer and seller - do you not agree ?

If the solicitor is representing the developer, why did the solicitor not say to the buyer/client 'i cannot represent you due to a conflict of interest with my existing representation of the developer, you will have to use someone else, i can recomend/suggest XYZ and ABC'.

What does the http://www.cyprusbarassociation.org/ say on this case considering their 'Code of Conduct' ?

[Gasman]

Dutch I think you will find that people are being made aware of this situation that existed in Cyprus where it turned out their lawyer was the property developer's lawyer too (and then always sided with the PD if problems arose).

It was only quite recently that it was decided that lawyers here DO owe their clients a 'duty of care' - unbelievable!

The attitude seems to have been - yes you have to have a lawyer and it has to be a Cypriot lawyer and you will pay that lawyer FAR MORE than you would have to pay a UK solicitor for a house purchase - but you should not expect him to do any researching regarding the property for you - all the things you got used to solicitors in the UK doing on your behalf where conveyancing is concerned - in Cyprus you should do yourself!

In most cases it was the Estate Agents the buyers were dealing with and who had the property on their books who recommended the lawyer - without revealing that it was also the lawyer for the developer. Not the property developer who said 'here use my lawyer'.

Remember during the 'boom' the vast majority of Brit buyers in Cyprus signed up and parted with money before the properties were built. That's how off-plan works.

[Jack M]

YEA THEY WERE EVIL ,THE SCUM OF THE HEARTH ,WE ARE GOING TO COURT BUT AS YO KNOW THE COURTS IN CYPRUS TAKE YEARS,WE WILL BE LUCKY IF WE GET IN COURT BY FIVE YEARS ,THIS IS HOW THEY CRUCIFY PEOPLE
JANET

cant you go over their heads and go to a european court? or from the uk? make them speed up the process

You can't go to the European Courts until you have exhausted the legal process in the country you bring your action.

No mileage in bringing an action in the UK unless the person you're bringing the action against has assets there.

[johbee]

Seems that some have taken the matter into their own hands:

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/crime/bomb-o ... s/20101110

http://www.lyingbuilder.com/

I know what I would do if someone stole my life's work, but fortunately I'm not in your position. Get a legimate lawyer and take this guy to court. You will win, but you probably won't get your money (The developer's probably in debt up to his eyeballs and has spent all the money he took). Justice is slow in Cyprus though.

[BigDutch]

In most cases it was the Estate Agents the buyers were dealing with and who had the property on their books who recommended the lawyer - without revealing that it was also the lawyer for the developer. Not the property developer who said 'here use my lawyer'.

Regardless of how the client arrived to knock on the lawyers door, general common sense* would demand that the lawyer once realising who the client was buying from would say 'no, sorry, already working for the other side here' !!

* i appreciate that common sense differs depending on the personality, where the person is brought up and what is considered 'standard' practice in that area. Perhaps the differencing expectation between client (British) and lawyer (Cypriot) can be put down to 'cultural differences' which despite 'cyprus law being based on British law' were not explained or discovered during the buying process.

[BigDutch]

.... Get a legimate lawyer and take this guy to court .....

shouldn't any lawyer practising be legitimate ? must be another 'cultural difference' eh ?

[ashleigh]

We appointed a lawyer and were later advised by the estate agent that we should get rid of him as he was trying to offer the estate agent a bribe of 5000cyp to hand us our deposit back and let him buy the land for himself. We believed him and the estate agent then said he could recommend a good lawyer that would act for us. Much later on, we found out that it was the same lawyer as the developer. Basically estate agent, developer and lawyer were all working together. We sadly were taken in by everything they told us and have paid a very high price. This is the SAME developer and lawyer as Janets and a VERY LARGE property company on the east of the island. Cant say anymore.

[janet.smith653]

Someone is kind enough to translate this text in English and maybe put the punctuation?
Do not know about you but my eyes are crossed at about the seventh row.

Our nightmare began when we brought a property in Cyprus. We had visited Cyprus many times and we had some lovely holidays .We had been suffering a lot of stress in the UK due to our daughter being caught up in the savage world of drugs. We had been bringing our grandson up from the age of 2; he was now 14 and had suffered so much so we decided to try and give him a better life. Little did we know what was awaiting us in Cyprus?

We brought off plan from a developer called Tsangaris from Avgouru. Our lawyer was Christos Karas from Paralimni. When we took over our property there was no main water or electric. Our water came from a well about 40 to 50 meters down the road. our electric was supplied to us by cable from a neighbours across the road .at this present time 20 months later there is no water or electric, on taking our house over in march 2009 we was not allowed to do a snagging test as our estate agent had died and the offices were closed. We could not get in touch with any one so we were left with just the developer. There were many problems but he was not interested. He had had all of our money. We went to our lawyer Karas who also was not interested. We could not understand why the lawyer wouldn't help us. He seemed to be working more for the developer than us, the reason being he was his lawyer and ours at the same time.

We then decided to go to another lawyer. On looking at our contract he discovered there was no planning or building permit. This was an illegal offence in Cyprus. we had been totally misled and lied to .when the developer found out we had gone to another lawyer he hit the roof and came to our house screaming and shouting in Greek. Then things started to happen: all of our tyres were slashed on our car, bags of cement were thrown in the pool, and rotten fruit was thrown at our windows. This was getting too much for us to bear.

One day the developer’s wife came to our home and stated shouting in Greek, and then she suddenly started shouting in English. She was shouting at the top of her voice and became very abusive: her words were “your crazy English go back to England”. she was putting her finger to her head making gestures that we were crazy, she then shouted” it does not matter what you do or say here nobody will listen to you, they will always be on our side because we are Cypriot” she even threatened to get us locked up .

I felt frightened and I did not know what to do but we decided to go to the police, as we had previously reported all the other incidents that had happened to us.

We decided to leave Cyprus as we couldn't take any more when we arrived back in the UK we had no where to live. We not only had ourselves to think about we also had our grandson who we looked upon as our son. We cried so much for him as he was also suffering. We managed to get some where to live and are trying to move on in. June this year we went back to Cyprus and demanded a meeting with the under secretary to the president. To our shock we were invited into the president’s palace. I explained what had happened to us and the government needed to put a stop to crooked developers and lawyers because, if he didn't, the Cyprus economy would suffer. He agreed with us and offered his support; we also appeared in the Cyprus mail and the politis, a Cypriot paper.

To this day we have still have not got our money back and we are finding it difficult financially. God knows when we will ever get in court.

THE DEVELOPERS LAWYER, WHICH IN FACT WAS OUR LAWYER AT THE BEGINNING OF OUR NIGHTMARE, AND THE DEVELOPERS LAWYER AT THE SAME TIME, IS TO OUR SHOCK AND DISBELIEF GOING TO REPRESENT THE DEVELOPER IN. HOW CAN THIS BE ALLOWED WHEN HE WAS OUR LAWYER THAT GOT US INTO THIS MESS? THE BAR ASSOCIATION SHOULD BE BARRING HIM. WE HAVE BEEN WAITING 16 MONTHS FOR A DISCIPLINARY MEETING WITH THE BAR ASSOCIATION. WE WERE TOLD WE WOULD NOT WAIT ANY LONGER THAN 1YEAR WHEN YOU ARE 55 YEARS OLD AND YOU LOOSE EVERYTHING IN SUCH A CRUEL WAY YOU CANNOT DESCRIBE TO ANYONE HOW IT MAKES YOU FEEL. WE ARE STILL WRITING LETTERS TO THE GOVERNMENT AS THEY MUST TAKE SOME RESPONSIBILITY. WE ARE NOT AN ENEMY OF CYPRUS: IT’S A BEAUTIFUL COUNTRY. WE ARE JUST TWO GENUINE HONEST PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN TREATED VERY CRUELY AND IN SUCH A SHAMEFUL WAY. I FEEL I AM EATING BREATHING AND SLEEPING A NIGHTMARE AND WE ARE BECOMING DRAINED.
We were never rich people and we used the money from the sale of our house in the UK which was 200.000 that was all we had solely for the purpose to try and give our grandson a better life. we went from one nightmare straight into another nightmare .I remember one day just sitting there, my head was buzzing I was constantly trying to find a way to make things better: a crazy thought came into my head what if I write to peter Andre the singer from Cyprus perhaps he may be able to help us, he comes from Cyprus and still as property there .Then I thought no what are you doing he will think that woman is totally bonkers but sometimes the stress of what as happened overpowering. I end my story by saying to anyone considering buying a property in Cyprus ,yes Cyprus is a lovely country but please make sure you check things thoroughly before signing any documents and make sure you use a lawyer approved by the British High Commission in Nicosia don’t end up in the position we are in now.

IF THERE IS ANYONE OUT THERE THAT MAY BE ABLE TO OFFER US SOME SUPPORT OR CAN DO ANYTHING TO HELP US THEN GIVE US AN EMAIL ON [email protected] OR RING US ON OUR UK LANDLINE PHONE 024 76 346 120.
WE WILL BE INTERESTED IN YOUR COMMENTS


Is this better?

thanks the phone no has changed ,0044.2476346210

[janet.smith653]

Hi Janet, i am pretty much in the same position as you, SAME developer, SAME lawyer. I am taking legal action against them. I think you may have spoken to my ex partner in the corner pin one day (this situation played a part in wrecking our relationship), a few months ago. The house is there but with so many defects, that render it unsellable, and we paid for 837sqm of land and only ended up with 500sqm. This action will take, from what ive been told, two years or more. My life is ruined now. Rest assured, i will not let them away with this. I came to Cyprus for a better life. I was widowed and left with two young children and worked two jobs to keep my home in the UK and my life was so hard. I have been coming here for the past 40 years as my father was cypriot and i vowed i would one day settle here. I love the island and i love the people but if my father knew what has happened to me, he would turn in his grave. So Janet, i sympathise with you, dont give up!, i won't. I have nothing left to lose and what keeps me going is that, one day, justice might be done. I dont want to say anything else other than we will both need all the luck in the world.

MY FATHER WOULD ALSO TURN IN HIS GRAVE,WE ARE ALSO KEEPING OUR FINGERS CROSSED .WAS YOUR PARTNER CALLED FRANK, PLEASE KEEP IN TOUCH. JANET