Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

They took the whole island.

[Piratis]

Fact: The British and the Turks were talking about partition from the 1950s BEFORE any ethnic conflict.

The ethnic conflict was not the reason for the partition. On the contrary partition was the reason for the ethnic conflict. First came the decision for partition, and the ethnic conflict was the excuse and the means to enforce what had already been decided.

It is not coincidence that the TCs initiated the inter-communal conflict in the 50s.

Yeah 500 years of ethnic mixing and all that time it was about "partition"

Partition was a reaction TO Enosis, so Enosis came first, not partition.

So you agree with me that ethnic conflict was not the reason for partition.

On the contrary the question of who would control Cyprus was the reason for the conflict, since the British and the Turks could not accept that this is a decision that could be taken democratically by the Cypriot people, and these Imperialists wanted to impose by force their own terms to secure their own interests. Your minority was used as the means and the excuse for these Imperialists to get what they want from Cyprus.

A few years earlier (late 40s) Rhodes, the 3rd largest Greek island, was liberated from Italian rule and united (enosis) with the rest of Greece. Not a single nose broke over this even though there is Muslim/Turkish minority in that island as well.

As far as the Ottomans go, they didn't want partition because they could enslave and oppress the whole of Cyprus:

During the Greek War of Independence in 1821, the Ottoman authorities feared that Greek Cypriots would rebel again. Archbishop Kyprianos, a powerful leader who worked to improve the education of Greek Cypriot children, was accused of plotting against the government. Kyprianos, his bishops, and hundreds of priests and important laymen were arrested and summarily hanged or decapitated on July 9, 1821.

If our freedom was given from back then, then Cyprus would have been part of the initial Greek state and there wouldn't be any need for any subsequent union.

But just like the Turks now, the Ottomans back then wanted to keep as much of Cyprus as possible under their control. The only difference is that back then they didn't need to invent any excuse for their crimes, while today, the era of international law and human rights, they needed an excuse, and this is where the TCs come in.

[Murataga]

Fact: The British and the Turks were talking about partition from the 1950s BEFORE any ethnic conflict.

The ethnic conflict was not the reason for the partition. On the contrary partition was the reason for the ethnic conflict. First came the decision for partition, and the ethnic conflict was the excuse and the means to enforce what had already been decided.

It is not coincidence that the TCs initiated the inter-communal conflict in the 50s.

Yeah 500 years of ethnic mixing and all that time it was about "partition"

Partition was a reaction TO Enosis, so Enosis came first, not partition.

So you agree with me that ethnic conflict was not the reason for partition.

On the contrary the question of who would control Cyprus was the reason for the conflict, since the British and the Turks could not accept that this is a decision that could be taken democratically by the Cypriot people, and these Imperialists wanted to impose by force their own terms to secure their own interests. Your minority was used as the means and the excuse for these Imperialists to get what they want from Cyprus.

No such thing as "Cypriot people" - neither in the constitution or according to the UN, history, culture, politics and realities. There are two politically equal communities and minorities - something also acknowledged by your elected leadership.

A few years earlier (late 40s) Rhodes, the 3rd largest Greek island, was liberated from Italian rule and united (enosis) with the rest of Greece. Not a single nose broke over this even though there is Muslim/Turkish minority in that island as well.

As far as the Ottomans go, they didn't want partition because they could enslave and oppress the whole of Cyprus:

During the Greek War of Independence in 1821, the Ottoman authorities feared that Greek Cypriots would rebel again. Archbishop Kyprianos, a powerful leader who worked to improve the education of Greek Cypriot children, was accused of plotting against the government. Kyprianos, his bishops, and hundreds of priests and important laymen were arrested and summarily hanged or decapitated on July 9, 1821.

If our freedom was given from back then, then Cyprus would have been part of the initial Greek state and there wouldn't be any need for any subsequent union.

But just like the Turks now, the Ottomans back then wanted to keep as much of Cyprus as possible under their control. The only difference is that back then they didn't need to invent any excuse for their crimes, while today, the era of international law and human rights, they needed an excuse, and this is where the TCs come in.

You went to the U.N. at the time for seeking an election to vote if the island should be handed over to Greece. U.N. denied this right to you - not Turkey, not the Ottomans. Unfortunately you did not give up then and there.

[denizaksulu]

Partition was a reaction TO Enosis, so Enosis came first, not partition.

No, the Turks came first in 1570 to partition!

That is rubbish and you know it GR.


..and to Piratis, the conflict began in 1821, when the GCs aspired to the independence that Greece had won.

I thought you never mentioned the past. Now you got even GR confused

[Piratis]

No such thing as "Cypriot people" - neither in the constitution or according to the UN, history, culture, politics and realities. There are two politically equal communities and minorities - something also acknowledged by your elected leadership.

The constitution was imposed on the Cypriot people by the earlier mentioned Imperialists. It was not a result of the free will of the Cypriots.
There are obviously Cypriot people, a Cypriot community is just a subset of the Cypriot people. Turkish Cypriots are an ethnic/religious/linguistic minority.

You went to the U.N. at the time for seeking an election to vote if the island should be handed over to Greece. U.N. denied this right to you - not Turkey, not the Ottomans. Unfortunately you did not give up then and there.

The British (the Colonialists) are permanent members of the security council. So how would the UN pass anything against them?

[Piratis]

Partition was a reaction TO Enosis, so Enosis came first, not partition.

No, the Turks came first in 1570 to partition!

That is rubbish and you know it GR.


..and to Piratis, the conflict began in 1821, when the GCs aspired to the independence that Greece had won.

I thought you never mentioned the past. Now you got even GR confused

shahmaran, was the one to talk about "500 years", I was just replying to him

Regarding when the conflict began, I am obviously referring to the inter-communal conflict. If you are talking about the conflict with the Ottomans, that one started in 1570 (and even before that, since the Ottomans were raiding towns in Cyprus)

[lola-tulip]

Wolff's analysis on the legality of Kosovo’s Declaration of Independence and the ICJ Opinion.

"Given that the Court specifically cites the case of Cyprus as one in which the UN Security Council has expressly provided for conditions under which such a Declaration would be a violation of international law, Turkish Cypriots can draw little comfort from this. In contrast, the fact that a similar Resolution is unlikely in relation to South Ossetia and Abkhazia, where one member of the veto-holding P5 members (Russia) has already recognised their self-declared independence, is rather more worrisome for Georgia as it is simply not offered the same protection under international law as the Republic of Cyprus."

[supporttheunderdog]

Then read Davutoglu's book Strategic Depth, in which he says precisely what Lola poste, that Turkey would be in Cyprus even if there was not a single moslem there.

I am inclind to agree - with or without a T/C presence I suspect Turkey would still find a way to intervene, particularly if Enosis was on the cards.