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Jack Straw utters the TRUTH

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Re: Jack Straw utters the TRUTH

Postby Afroasiatis » Sun Nov 14, 2010 1:06 pm

MrH wrote:TITLE: Cyprus may need formal partition, says UK’s Straw  

Formal partition of Cyprus should be considered if ongoing peace talks fail to produce a plan to reunite the island, Britain's former Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said.    

Jack Straw wrote Monday in an op-ed article for the Times of London that the international community must break “a taboo” and consider the creation of two permanent states on the divided island, the Associated Press reported. Straw was Britain's foreign minister between 2001 and 2006, and a senior Cabinet member until May.Straw's remarks came as Turkish and Greek Cypriot leaders, Dervi? Ero?lu and Dimitris Christofias, met for the latest round of reunification talks. The talks, which first began when Ero?lu's predecessor, Mehmet Ali Talat was in power in September 2008, have produced little progress so far. In an effort to advance the slow-moving talks, United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon will host a meeting of Ero?lu and Christofias on Nov. 18 in New York.Quoting diplomats, the British daily Financial Times said on Monday that this meeting could be the last chance to reunite the island. Officials in the UN and leading Western governments have warned that there is a limit to how long they will back the negotiations, saying they are running out of patience with the inability of both sides to strike a deal, said the daily.“If we don't get agreement now … then it really is ‘goodnight, nurse',” a leading diplomat involved in negotiations told the Financial Times. “There's a chance the UN will withdraw its good offices in hosting the talks. We're not going to stay here for ever, going through mindless meetings and meaningless talks.” A senior diplomat from a European Union nation warned that the peace talks ran the risk of failing completely. “This meeting is the last chance for a solution because progress so far has been pitiful,” the diplomat said. “We're approaching the point where it's time to face up to the painful consequences of failure.”The senior EU diplomat said failure to strike a deal this year would bring a real risk that Cyprus would move to formal partition.The stalemate in Cyprus also prevents progress in Turkey's process of accession into the EU. The 27-nation bloc, where Cyprus is represented by the Greek Cypriot government, suspended accession negotiations on eight of the 35 chapters in 2006 because of Turkey's refusal to open its ports and airports to traffic from Greek Cyprus.  

09 November 2010, Tuesday

TODAY’S ZAMAN  ?STANBUL


The official partition will most probably come, since it seems it's the solution both the GC and TC societies can better live with, but it will still take a lot of years, many decades probably. Statements from people with no real authority like Jack Straw are just a part of preparing the ground, but we're still in a very early stage.

Most probably we'll go through a long period of Taiwan-ization before the partition becomes official. Anyway, the Cyprus problem is getting solved by itself as time goes by, and I guess this is what our leaderships are counting on. They don't need to take any hard decisions now, they can just sit and wait. As it also seems that Turkey won't enter the EU any time soon, there is probably not so much pressure from outside to solve the problem right away.
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Re: Jack Straw utters the TRUTH

Postby Get Real! » Sun Nov 14, 2010 1:48 pm

Afroasiatis wrote:The official partition will most probably come,

:roll: There's no such thing as a "official partition"!

The Republic is a UN member sovereign nation so you should read up on international law pertaining to these maters before posting stupid things.
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Re: Jack Straw utters the TRUTH

Postby Afroasiatis » Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:07 pm

Get Real! wrote:
Afroasiatis wrote:The official partition will most probably come,

:roll: There's no such thing as a "official partition"!

The Republic is a UN member sovereign nation so you should read up on international law pertaining to these maters before posting stupid things.


What are you saying? That after a country becomes a member of the UN is eternally immune to partition? I don't think that history confirms that.

You think that Serbia, Georgia, Belgium or Turkey shouldn't worry about their territorial integrity because they're ..UN members? You think that Kosovo will never become officially independent, just because Serbia is a UN-member?
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Re: Jack Straw utters the TRUTH

Postby Paphitis » Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:18 pm

Afroasiatis wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
Afroasiatis wrote:The official partition will most probably come,

:roll: There's no such thing as a "official partition"!

The Republic is a UN member sovereign nation so you should read up on international law pertaining to these maters before posting stupid things.


What are you saying? That after a country becomes a member of the UN is eternally immune to partition? I don't think that history confirms that.

You think that Serbia, Georgia, Belgium or Turkey shouldn't worry about their territorial integrity because they're ..UN members? You think that Kosovo will never become officially independent, just because Serbia is a UN-member?


No, what he is saying is that a country can not be formed as a result of illegal aggression by a foreign power on ethnically cleansed and stolen lands. This will set an awful precedence which is why no country has been game enough to recognize the division.

If the TCs were homogeneous to one particular area of Cyprus and wanted their self determination, then things may well have been different.
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Re: Jack Straw utters the TRUTH

Postby Get Real! » Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:24 pm

Afroasiatis wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
Afroasiatis wrote:The official partition will most probably come,

:roll: There's no such thing as a "official partition"!

The Republic is a UN member sovereign nation so you should read up on international law pertaining to these maters before posting stupid things.


What are you saying? That after a country becomes a member of the UN is eternally immune to partition? I don't think that history confirms that.

You think that Serbia, Georgia, Belgium or Turkey shouldn't worry about their territorial integrity because they're ..UN members? You think that Kosovo will never become officially independent, just because Serbia is a UN-member?

Never, ever, ever, use comparisons with other countries/territories because every case is unique!

Yugoslavia was the official UN member sovereign nation not Serbia, and it wasn’t until recently (2000 ?) that Serbia became independent with a whole list of controversial clauses and territorial ambiguities!

Furthermore, Cyprus has the 100% backing of the UNSC and it just doesn’t get any more powerful than that on this planet...

UN RESOLUTION 361 (1974)
http://www.un.int/cyprus/scr353.htm

UN RESOLUTION 541 (1983)
http://www.un.int/cyprus/scr541.htm

UN RESOLUTION 550 (1984)
http://www.un.int/cyprus/scr550.htm
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Re: Jack Straw utters the TRUTH

Postby Afroasiatis » Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:36 pm

Paphitis wrote:
No, what he is saying is that a country can not be formed as a result of illegal aggression by a foreign power on ethnically cleansed and stolen lands. This will set an awful precedence which is why no country has been game enough to recognize the division.

If the TCs were homogeneous to one particular area of Cyprus and wanted their self determination, then things may well have been different.


Well, there is at least one state I can think of which was created as a result of aggression by a foreign power on ethnically cleansed and stolen lands - Israel (the difference is in the legality). Today it's even in the UN.

And no, I don't think the big states in the world care that much about having such a precedence. There are other issues that weigh more than that. In some cases, it could perhaps even be in their favour (see e.g. Russia and Abkhazia).

Anyway, it's very hard for me to imagine that if the GC and TC leaderships agree on a partition, this won't get realized because the UN will block it.
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Re: Jack Straw utters the TRUTH

Postby Get Real! » Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:43 pm

Afroasiatis wrote:Well, there is at least one state I can think of which was created as a result of aggression by a foreign power on ethnically cleansed and stolen lands - Israel (the difference is in the legality). Today it's even in the UN.

Now you've turned everything into a Greek salad with fetta! :lol:

Every case is unique but you should take good note of the fact that Cyrus has no borders because she is an island and hence there is no question about her territorial integrity whatsoever!

Further, why don't you try to explain to us what this "official partition" involves (what are the legal steps?) and you'll soon realise that its stupid and can never happen!
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Re: Jack Straw utters the TRUTH

Postby Afroasiatis » Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:43 pm

Get Real! wrote:Never, ever, ever, use comparisons with other countries/territories because every case is unique!

Yugoslavia was the official UN member sovereign nation not Serbia, and it wasn’t until recently (2000 ?) that Serbia became independent with a whole list of controversial clauses and territorial ambiguities!

Furthermore, Cyprus has the 100% backing of the UNSC and it just doesn’t get any more powerful than that on this planet...

UN RESOLUTION 361 (1974)
http://www.un.int/cyprus/scr353.htm

UN RESOLUTION 541 (1983)
http://www.un.int/cyprus/scr541.htm

UN RESOLUTION 550 (1984)
http://www.un.int/cyprus/scr550.htm


Well, I guess they'll have to find a unique way for the partition of Cyprus too. But I'm sure they can do this, it's their job.

As for the UN Resolutions, can't the Security Council vote a new one, if it wants so?
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Postby Get Real! » Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:47 pm

From the UNSC...

"1.Calls upon all States to respect the sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity of Cyprus."

The BBF you are hearing about today (since 1977 actually) is just a goodwill gesture by the RoC which can be revoked at any time and I predict that it will be sometime in 2011.


Further reading...

Can Turkey annex the occupied territory of Cyprus?
http://thecyprusproblem.100webspace.net ... icle31.htm

Do “Turkish Cypriots” have a right to self-determination?
http://thecyprusproblem.100webspace.net ... icle32.htm
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Re: Jack Straw utters the TRUTH

Postby Afroasiatis » Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:51 pm

Get Real! wrote:Further, why don't you try to explain to us what this "official partition" involves (what are the legal steps?) and you'll soon realise that its stupid and can never happen!


As I said, the first step will be a slow process of Taiwan-ization. I guess this will last some decades, until re-unification becomes a completely unrealistic alternative due to the facts.
The next step could be an agreement by the two leaderships on a recognition of the state in North, with territorial adjustments and some compensations payed. Perhaps under the roof of some loose confederation.
The final step will be the recognition of the new situation by the guarantee powers, EU (if it still exists), UN etc.
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