Cyprus-Forum.com

[apc2010]

From the uk foriegn office site ............


Anyone in possession of documents relating to the purchase of property in northern Cyprus when crossing the Green Line could face criminal proceedings under the a 2006 criminal code amendment. Please see the property section below for more information.

British and other foreign nationals who have entered Cyprus through the north are considered by the Government of the Republic of Cyprus to have entered Cyprus through an illegal port of entry. The Government of the Republic of Cyprus reserves the right to fine EU (including British) citizens for illegal entry if they cross into the south. In practice, their current policy is not to do so.

WHY............................

[apc2010]

The website of the British High Commission in Nicosia contains information about purchasing property in Cyprus, including frequently asked questions, and information for people who are experiencing difficulties with a property purchase. On 20 October 2006 a criminal code amendment relating to property came into effect. Under the amendment, buying, selling, renting, promoting or mortgaging a property without the permission of the owner (the person whose ownership is registered with the Republic of Cyprus Land Registry, including Greek Cypriots displaced from northern Cyprus in 1974), is a criminal offence. This also applies to agreeing to sell, buy or rent a property without the owner’s permission. The maximum prison sentence is seven years. Furthermore, the amendment to the law states that any attempt to undertake such a transaction is a criminal offence and could result in a prison sentence of up to five years. This law is not retrospective, so will not criminalise transactions that took place before 20 October 2006. Documents relating to the purchase of property in northern Cyprus will be presumed by the Cypriot authorities to relate to the illegal transfer of Greek Cypriot property and may be subject to confiscation when crossing the Green Line. Anyone in possession of these documents may be asked to make a statement to the Cypriot authorities and may face criminal proceedings under the 20 October 2006 amendment.

http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travel-and-liv ... ope/cyprus

[Gasman]

apc - I have asked the same question on here many times. Why did they bother to introduce it if they did not intend to enforce it? And it has of course created two camps of 'foreigners who bought GC property or property built on GC owned land' - those who bought before the law came into force and those who bought afterwards.

Because it is not retrospective.

To me that says - if they have to bring in a new law to make it a criminal offence from a certain date - it was not a criminal offence before that.

Why do the RoC Authorities and Agencies concerned with all this take no action whatsoever when furnished with details of 'illegal' property sales and the people concerned in them?

Why do they bother to have the laws relating to 'entering the RoC by an illegal entry port' etc. if they never enforce them? Even on official sites it states something to the effect of 'but in practice this is not enforced' or 'nothing will happen'.

Obviously not ALL GCs are outraged by the property issue and not ALL GCs have suffered since 1974. My wild guess is that quite a lot of those with clout or in positions of power have done very nicely out of the situation.

[Oracle]

From the uk foriegn office site ............


Anyone in possession of documents relating to the purchase of property in northern Cyprus when crossing the Green Line could face criminal proceedings under the a 2006 criminal code amendment..

How cleverly that warning prepares the carpetbaggers to post their "documents" to get them out of Cyprus, and certainly to avoid having them about their person, when travelling!

A stern warning NOT to "purchase" would have been more honest of the UK FO ....

It's not about the RoC not enforcing the law, but catching the sneaky weasels! Remember, most of them are crafty, hardened criminals!

[Gasman]

It's not about the RoC not enforcing the law, but catching the sneaky weasels! Remember, most of them are crafty, hardened criminals!

Wrong. Even when they have all the information needed given to them - they take no action.

And most purchasers are not hardened criminals, they are old age pensioners!

The wording you complain about is just stating the RoC law passed. Maybe the RoC intended it as a cleverly worded 'instruction' on how to get around it?

Even some property sites advise people to post their documents to themselves or send to their lawyers or email them or whatever. But it is generally acknowledged that the RoC will do nothing anyway.

But, what about the owners of all this land (I say land because the vast majority over there have purchased new builds on land owned by GCs, they are not living in GC ancestral homes), where are these owners making their protests when some of these cases are well publicised.

They have held demos outside the properties objecting to the 'TRNC' banks auctioning them off. The exact location of them is stated and there for anyone to see. In some of these well known cases, the first and last names of the purchasers have become well known, the exact address of their properties, the names of their 'advocates', their property developers, the banks involved and even any building companies working on them since. Yet not once have I heard a GC voice objecting to all this wrangle going on over who actually 'owns' what is THEIR property?

So we have purchasers, developers, banks - but no GC owners making their voice heard- with a 'hang on a minute - it's MY property anyway - not the purchasers, or the Banks'.

At none of these meetings or gatherings or publications about the same has any GC owner of the land involved come forth or spoken up.

Could it be they DID agree to sell a long time ago? I've no idea. There have been a very few well publicised cases but silence about the rest.

Why aren't GCs pinpointing their land on maps and plastering those all over the net? They could say 'if you live anywhere here - you are living on MY land'.

Why is it still such a mystery as to who owns what now?

[Get Real!]

Why aren't GCs pinpointing their land on maps and plastering those all over the net? They could say 'if you live anywhere here - you are living on MY land'.

Why is it still such a mystery as to who owns what now?

http://www.moi.gov.cy/moi/DLS/dls.nsf/d ... enDocument

[Gregory]

It's not about the RoC not enforcing the law, but catching the sneaky weasels! Remember, most of them are crafty, hardened criminals!

Wrong. Even when they have all the information needed given to them - they take no action.

And most purchasers are not hardened criminals, they are old age pensioners!

The wording you complain about is just stating the RoC law passed. Maybe the RoC intended it as a cleverly worded 'instruction' on how to get around it?

Even some property sites advise people to post their documents to themselves or send to their lawyers or email them or whatever. But it is generally acknowledged that the RoC will do nothing anyway.

But, what about the owners of all this land (I say land because the vast majority over there have purchased new builds on land owned by GCs, they are not living in GC ancestral homes), where are these owners making their protests when some of these cases are well publicised.

They have held demos outside the properties objecting to the 'TRNC' banks auctioning them off. The exact location of them is stated and there for anyone to see. In some of these well known cases, the first and last names of the purchasers have become well known, the exact address of their properties, the names of their 'advocates', their property developers, the banks involved and even any building companies working on them since. Yet not once have I heard a GC voice objecting to all this wrangle going on over who actually 'owns' what is THEIR property?

So we have purchasers, developers, banks - but no GC owners making their voice heard- with a 'hang on a minute - it's MY property anyway - not the purchasers, or the Banks'.

At none of these meetings or gatherings or publications about the same has any GC owner of the land involved come forth or spoken up.

Could it be they DID agree to sell a long time ago? I've no idea. There have been a very few well publicised cases but silence about the rest.

Why aren't GCs pinpointing their land on maps and plastering those all over the net? They could say 'if you live anywhere here - you are living on MY land'.

Why is it still such a mystery as to who owns what now?

Wow! I haven't heard so many wrong assumptions gathered in one place in my entire life!

GC's sold their land?

Mate, buy anywhere on the coast west of Kyrenia and chances are you'll be tripping over my old man's land. These people lost everything in 74 and rebuilt their lives and their country. You're obliged to respect this fact if nothing else.

[Gasman]

GR I say again - where are the OWNERS of this land they say they love so much?

I've seen plenty of official and unofficial maps!

Where is their VOICE?

Is it the case that most of them don't have a clue where exactly their 'land' is in the North? Because they've inherited it, never been there to see it - or what?

I am asking a serious question. If I had land half an hour's drive from where I live and I knew they were building houses on it and selling them off without my permission - I would be making my voice heard loudly.

GCs who own the land that they say houses have been built on could have dispelled any doubt about the legality of such sales if they'd spoken up.

Some purchasers might be saying they had no idea it belonged to a GC blah blah. They'd have a job to say that if that GC was making it known loud and clear that XYZ property developers are building on HIS land and anyone who buys property there will be prosecuted.

Gawd - there are discussion groups for almost every single development over there. I joined a few when I was trying to track someone down. If they joined some of those they'd have the full names and addresses of most of the 'carpetbaggers' living there.

There must be some reason why some (not all) of the GCs stay quiet.

I live in a property built on TC land in Larnaca. It was told to me that the TC concerned left Cyprus before 74 so was allowed to sell it. A lot of land is involved where this particular GC developer is concerned so I have no reason to disbelieve that.

There are tracts of rough ground around here in the old town where it is clear to see former dwellings have been demolished. The foundations/floors are clear to see (specially now they are tidying it all up). One such area has been turned into a spiffing new play park and adjoining car park.

Then I was told they can take the land if it is for Municipal/Govt stuff?

I don't know.

Also don't know why the GCs who own and treasure this ancestral land in the north haven't said a dicky bird about what has been happening to it in the vast majority of cases.

Just think if every one of them had made as much noise as the owner of the land the Orams villa was built on. There'd be hardly anyone who was still unaware of the situation.

Meanwhile, property developers and estate agents continue to advertise and sell property over there. Advertising it with a variety of deeds or none at all, offering inspection trips to see it and mortgages to buy it with too now! As I've pointed out before - even on this forum! Can't point it out again - my post was deleted (but the advert remained lol!)

I'd expect to find GCs here (and in the diaspora) loudly proclaiming (with photographs to support their claims) - look! Here's my land! And here's what they've built on it! And here's the bugger that's living in it!

At least SOME OF THEM!

[Gasman]

OK Gregory - you've given a vague indication of where your dad's land is.

Don't you know the name of the developments built on it? They don't keep this info secret - it's well publicised. A short trip over there and you'd have the info on EVERY development - how many dwellings there are etc.

In some of the estate agents over there (thinking here of a very big UK based one owned by a TC living in the UK) they even had plans and lists on their walls giving the numbers of all their units and the NAMES of those who had bought them!

A large stretch of land adjacent to where I live is TC land. Well, it nearly all is round here - it's the old Turkish Town. Everybody says it's been sold by the UK TC who owns it for 12 million. Nothings happening on it yet - it's being used as an unofficial tip.

Obviously there is no secret made here of all the GC refugees who live in the TC property, nor of the TCs who have recently returned to theirs (not many but some and it seems to be increasing). Or what companies or concerns are using it.

But with this property/land in the North, it all seems so vague - nothing definite. Just referred to most of the time in vague terms as 'GC property'.

Do you think a lot of GCs don't want their land back? That they are hanging on hoping for the money instead and the longer they wait, the higher the sum?

Serious questions about things that truly puzzle me.

[Oracle]

It's not about the RoC not enforcing the law, but catching the sneaky weasels! Remember, most of them are crafty, hardened criminals!

Wrong. Even when they have all the information needed given to them - they take no action.

How about some evidence for a change?

This thread is about catching the carpetbaggers in possession of "documents" on their person when crossing the green line, and then prosecuting them.

How many have been caught with these documents and the RoC has failed to enforce the law?