Cyprus-Forum.com

[denizaksulu]

It's not about the RoC not enforcing the law, but catching the sneaky weasels! Remember, most of them are crafty, hardened criminals!

Wrong. Even when they have all the information needed given to them - they take no action.

How about some evidence for a change?

This thread is about catching the carpetbaggers in possession of "documents" on their person when crossing the green line, and then prosecuting them.

How many have been caught with these documents and the RoC has failed to enforce the law?

We have only heard of one or two cases of ex-pats caught with incriminating documents. Have these people been charged yet? If so, what was their punishment? If not charged, why not? Perhaps a locally living enlightened GC can answer. Obviously O can't.

[Oracle]

It's not about the RoC not enforcing the law, but catching the sneaky weasels! Remember, most of them are crafty, hardened criminals!

Wrong. Even when they have all the information needed given to them - they take no action.

How about some evidence for a change?

This thread is about catching the carpetbaggers in possession of "documents" on their person when crossing the green line, and then prosecuting them.

How many have been caught with these documents and the RoC has failed to enforce the law?

We have only heard of one or two cases of ex-pats caught with incriminating documents. Have these people been charged yet? If so, what was their punishment? If not charged, why not? Perhaps a locally living enlightened GC can answer. Obviously O can't.

Why don't you leave the evidence presentation for the person who is being asked (since you clearly don't have any either)!

[Gregory]

OK Gregory - you've given a vague indication of where your dad's land is.

Don't you know the name of the developments built on it? They don't keep this info secret - it's well publicised. A short trip over there and you'd have the info on EVERY development - how many dwellings there are etc.

In some of the estate agents over there (thinking here of a very big UK based one owned by a TC living in the UK) they even had plans and lists on their walls giving the numbers of all their units and the NAMES of those who had bought them!

A large stretch of land adjacent to where I live is TC land. Well, it nearly all is round here - it's the old Turkish Town. Everybody says it's been sold by the UK TC who owns it for 12 million. Nothings happening on it yet - it's being used as an unofficial tip.

Obviously there is no secret made here of all the GC refugees who live in the TC property, nor of the TCs who have recently returned to theirs (not many but some and it seems to be increasing). Or what companies or concerns are using it.

But with this property/land in the North, it all seems so vague - nothing definite. Just referred to most of the time in vague terms as 'GC property'.

Do you think a lot of GCs don't want their land back? That they are hanging on hoping for the money instead and the longer they wait, the higher the sum?

Serious questions about things that truly puzzle me.

You're assuming it matters what and who builds on my land. GC's know that there is no power on this planet to wipe away their fundamental rights to property.

[Kikapu]

Some purchasers might be saying they had no idea it belonged to a GC blah blah. They'd have a job to say that if that GC was making it known loud and clear that XYZ property developers are building on HIS land and anyone who buys property there will be prosecuted.

It is not the responsibility of the land owner to chase down any potential illegal buyer of his land from an illegal seller of his land in the north that he is the legal owner. It is the responsibility of the potential buyer to do a property search at the Land Registry office in the RoC when purchasing any land anywhere in Cyprus to make sure the land bought/sold is legal. Considering 80% of the land in the north belongs to the GCs, potentially 80% of all land transactions in the north has the potential of being illegal.! Ignorance is no defence when it comes to breaking the law.

[Gasman]

But Gregory does that mean therefore that you don't even know if anyone HAS built on your land? If it doesn't matter? Could it be that some of this GC owned land is still sitting as it was in 1974 and hasn't yet been developed, built on or whatever yet?

Every GC I've seen speak on the forums about this subject seems to be positive that their land has been built on or their ancestral home is being lived in.

Have you ever taken a trip over to see for yourself? There are plenty of old GC houses just sitting empty and falling into disrepair. In fact, when driving round some of the villages along the panhandle, I've wondered why the people (whom I assume to be Turkish) and who are living in what look like not much better than animal shelters nearby don't move into the houses.

Just as there are many TC houses here where I live falling into disrepair (the difference here is that they are not sitting empty - almost all have GCs living in them) I've seen less than half a dozen that seem empty. I've spoken with many people about why they let them get into such a state and how they could bear to live in what looks like 'unfit for human habitation' and I've been told they don't want to spend any money on doing up TC houses. It's not because none of them can afford to either - they have the beamers and jeeps parked right outside. Some own several businesses close by. One house opposite me (and one of the worst - it seems unbelievable ANYONE could live there) is inhabited by just the old granny and her indian minder. The rest of the family live in a much nicer house up the road.

I've been taken to villages up above Limassol and Akrotiri area and shown what were TC villages (but most buildings have been destroyed).

A few years back it was the case that most GCs talking about this subject would say they didn't mind if TCs lived in their properties, but they didn't want Turks living in them. Now all the talk seems to be of 'foreigners' living in them.

As I said, when you go over there, it is obvious most 'foreigners' bought new, off-plan housing built on land where no houses were before.

Which I believe was the case with the Orams wasn't it? The house was built on a GC's land.

Some of these developments are in the middle of nowhere. Just looking at them makes it obvious that there wasn't anything there before. No roads, no street lighting, no local amenities, nothing.

I don't agree with it. But all I am asking is where are the voices of the GCs who own this land? Just google property for sale in the North - you will get hundreds of results and be able to see EXACTLY where they've built.

In this internet age, even if they are afraid to venture over, or won't go on principle, they could make their voices heard plain and clear.

[Gasman]

As for those who refuse to deal with the IPC - I'd have thought they'd have taken a cue from Lordy lordy Lordos who IS dealing with them. He obviously knows where his land is and how much he values it at and who to pursue for it.

What happened up to Orams is one thing. But hasn't it been made clear now that all FUTURE cases must go to the IPC first?

Kikapu you seem to be saying that what Lordos did is not the right way to go about it. That you should be pursuing the purchasers through the courts.

Landowners might not be OBLIGED to chase down purchasers or sellers of their land but, with the depth of feeling expressed here and the thousands of times they bewail the fact that their lands and homes are being illegally occupied, I'd have thought they would be 'bothered' to do so. That's all.

Nearly 40 years with so many thousands doing nothing?

[Get Real!]

Do you think a lot of GCs don't want their land back? That they are hanging on hoping for the money instead and the longer they wait, the higher the sum?

We think you’re assuming scenarios to create a feeble and pointless argument you stand no chance of winning.

[Gregory]

But Gregory does that mean therefore that you don't even know if anyone HAS built on your land? If it doesn't matter? Could it be that some of this GC owned land is still sitting as it was in 1974 and hasn't yet been developed, built on or whatever yet?

Every GC I've seen speak on the forums about this subject seems to be positive that their land has been built on or their ancestral home is being lived in.

Have you ever taken a trip over to see for yourself? There are plenty of old GC houses just sitting empty and falling into disrepair. In fact, when driving round some of the villages along the panhandle, I've wondered why the people (whom I assume to be Turkish) and who are living in what look like not much better than animal shelters nearby don't move into the houses.

Just as there are many TC houses here where I live falling into disrepair (the difference here is that they are not sitting empty - almost all have GCs living in them) I've seen less than half a dozen that seem empty. I've spoken with many people about why they let them get into such a state and how they could bear to live in what looks like 'unfit for human habitation' and I've been told they don't want to spend any money on doing up TC houses. It's not because none of them can afford to either - they have the beamers and jeeps parked right outside. Some own several businesses close by. One house opposite me (and one of the worst - it seems unbelievable ANYONE could live there) is inhabited by just the old granny and her indian minder. The rest of the family live in a much nicer house up the road.

I've been taken to villages up above Limassol and Akrotiri area and shown what were TC villages (but most buildings have been destroyed).

A few years back it was the case that most GCs talking about this subject would say they didn't mind if TCs lived in their properties, but they didn't want Turks living in them. Now all the talk seems to be of 'foreigners' living in them.

As I said, when you go over there, it is obvious most 'foreigners' bought new, off-plan housing built on land where no houses were before.

Which I believe was the case with the Orams wasn't it? The house was built on a GC's land.

Some of these developments are in the middle of nowhere. Just looking at them makes it obvious that there wasn't anything there before. No roads, no street lighting, no local amenities, nothing.

I don't agree with it. But all I am asking is where are the voices of the GCs who own this land? Just google property for sale in the North - you will get hundreds of results and be able to see EXACTLY where they've built.

In this internet age, even if they are afraid to venture over, or won't go on principle, they could make their voices heard plain and clear.

I'll ask you again, what difference does it make if someone built on it? Its still my land.

[Kikapu]

[Kikapu]

As for those who refuse to deal with the IPC - I'd have thought they'd have taken a cue from Lordy lordy Lordos who IS dealing with them. He obviously knows where his land is and how much he values it at and who to pursue for it.

What happened up to Orams is one thing. But hasn't it been made clear now that all FUTURE cases must go to the IPC first?

Kikapu you seem to be saying that what Lordos did is not the right way to go about it. That you should be pursuing the purchasers through the courts.

Landowners might not be OBLIGED to chase down purchasers or sellers of their land but, with the depth of feeling expressed here and the thousands of times they bewail the fact that their lands and homes are being illegally occupied, I'd have thought they would be 'bothered' to do so. That's all.

Nearly 40 years with so many thousands doing nothing?

Everyone is an individual and not everyone wants to sell their land in the north, hence the reason why only a relatively few people have gone to the IPC. IPC's main purpose is to buy property from the GCs at rock bottom price and not to make any restitution, so what is the point in going to the IPC if an individual does not want to sell their property in the north at dirt cheap prices.

What exactly did you expect the legal GC owners to do in the north when they are prevented from returning to their properties by the occupation force. You need to have more empathy on these people than virtually calling them "lazy" for not doing anything to keep the potential illegal buyers from buying up their properties from illegal sellers. As long as they have the law on their side, all they can do is wait, and eventually pass the torch onto their kids to continue the wait. If anyone should feel restless, are the ones who have bought illegal property, because they will never own them outright.