Cyprus-Forum.com

[Hermes]

And do you know how boring and frustrating it is for you and your ilk coming out swinging with accusations the we want to deprive you of your rights,or we want to gain on your losses,every time we mention our fears,hopes and aspirations???? it is not going to work,my friend..We will not be intimidated...You are exhibiting the bloodyminded fanatical GC mentality : ONLY your human rights and your aspirations count... You didnt say it but that is what you meant...The TCs are just second class citizens who have no rights or aspirations of their own...They ought to be grateful they were allowed to live in their enclaves since 1963,and in their open prison which your unrepentand ENOSIS dreams and plots and actions have forced them into,since 1974...Your intimidation tactics will not stop us,TCs,from shouting from rooftops that we have been deprived of our human rights and of our country since 1963...Before that we were just seen as a nuisance that should just go away,even after hundreds of years of living on Cyprus...Our legitimate and justified fears and trepidations were nothing more than final death throps you loved watching with a vindictive smirk...Well,all you managed to do is to force us further and further into the arms of our Turkish cousins,and we now have no option but to blow in the big Turkish wind...Make no mistake about it...You and people of your mentality are responsible for the Partition of this island,and no amount of breast beating will change that fact...History will condemn you and the fanatical GC aspirations for Cyprus,as responsible for the final division of our country...Before that I will curse you every day I take breath, for depriving me of my childhood,and my homeland,of my human rights long before a single Turkish soldier had seet foot on the island...

You really have lost it. Despite all I said you still persist in claiming that your rights can only exist at the expense of the rights of the majority and these rights must take precedence. I ask you to consider a scenario where neither community's rights are violated and you come up with the same paranoid nonsense that only your rights count and if this necessitates the violation of the human rights of the majority then so be it.

You are absolutely unable to think outside of a zero-sum game. You don't understand that the violation of anyone's human rights is a violation of all human rights. It's pointless even arguing with you because you just retreat back into bitter fearful paranoia. Your painful and twisted logic is that the withdrawal of Turkish troops, a re-unified state, the application of EU principles, of freedom of movement, of the return of law and justice - is a step backwards for your community. This is what it amounts to. You want the law of the jungle to prevail in Cyprus. It is no wonder with attitudes like yours that the Turkish Cypriot community are outcasts. What it comes down is a battle between those who are struggling for justice and unity and those who want to live in a state of permanent brutal apartheid.

In a way, it's ironic that the only thing that can save your community from its own self-destructive hatred is if you were obliged to live in the EU under EU laws. Left to your own devices you are incapable of seeing outside your own petty vindictiveness. It would be a true blessing for T/Cs. Only, at present, you are too blind to know it.

[BirKibrisli]

And do you know how boring and frustrating it is for you and your ilk coming out swinging with accusations the we want to deprive you of your rights,or we want to gain on your losses,every time we mention our fears,hopes and aspirations???? it is not going to work,my friend..We will not be intimidated...You are exhibiting the bloodyminded fanatical GC mentality : ONLY your human rights and your aspirations count... You didnt say it but that is what you meant...The TCs are just second class citizens who have no rights or aspirations of their own...They ought to be grateful they were allowed to live in their enclaves since 1963,and in their open prison which your unrepentand ENOSIS dreams and plots and actions have forced them into,since 1974...Your intimidation tactics will not stop us,TCs,from shouting from rooftops that we have been deprived of our human rights and of our country since 1963...Before that we were just seen as a nuisance that should just go away,even after hundreds of years of living on Cyprus...Our legitimate and justified fears and trepidations were nothing more than final death throps you loved watching with a vindictive smirk...Well,all you managed to do is to force us further and further into the arms of our Turkish cousins,and we now have no option but to blow in the big Turkish wind...Make no mistake about it...You and people of your mentality are responsible for the Partition of this island,and no amount of breast beating will change that fact...History will condemn you and the fanatical GC aspirations for Cyprus,as responsible for the final division of our country...Before that I will curse you every day I take breath, for depriving me of my childhood,and my homeland,of my human rights long before a single Turkish soldier had seet foot on the island...

You really have lost it. Despite all I said you still persist in claiming that your rights can only exist at the expense of the rights of the majority and these rights must take precedence. I ask you to consider a scenario where neither community's rights are violated and you come up with the same paranoid nonsense that only your rights count and if this necessitates the violation of the human rights of the majority then so be it.

You are absolutely unable to think outside of a zero-sum game. You don't understand that the violation of anyone's human rights is a violation of all human rights. It's pointless even arguing with you because you just retreat back into bitter fearful paranoia. Your painful and twisted logic is that the withdrawal of Turkish troops, a re-unified state, the application of EU principles, of freedom of movement, of the return of law and justice - is a step backwards for your community. This is what it amounts to. You want the law of the jungle to prevail in Cyprus. It is no wonder with attitudes like yours that the Turkish Cypriot community are outcasts. What it comes down is a battle between those who are struggling for justice and unity and those who want to live in a state of permanent brutal apartheid.

In a way, it's ironic that the only thing that can save your community from its own self-destructive hatred is if you were obliged to live in the EU under EU laws. Left to your own devices you are incapable of seeing outside your own petty vindictiveness. It would be a true blessing for T/Cs. Only, at present, you are too blind to know it.

Your logic is truly laughable,my friend..
You talk of violation of human rights but refuse to acknowledge that this was what happened to the TCs during the 63-74 period...Unless and until you accept that and show some remorse you have no right to demand any sympathy for your own suffering..Got that??? Until you admit that from very early in the piece,from 40s onwards,the Official GC policy towards the TCs was of a vindictive demand for your "pound of flesh" you will get nowhere with your arguments...When you turn a blind eye to other people's plight re their human rights,you give up your right to be considered seriously when yours are violated..got that??? Talk is cheap...Taking the high ground re human rights is even cheaper when your actions tell another story..got that??? Insist on ignoring the past and your part in it, and you are condemning our country to permanent partition...The TCs have their Turkishness to take shelter in,as they had done for so long against the offical GC onslaught to drive them out of their homes and country...Where will you turn when all is said and done???
When the Democratic Islamic Republic of Greater Turkey is breathing down your neck from the TRNC??? Thought about that???

[boulio]

I cant understand the T/C, theY keep harping on these issues of from the sixties while others in regions that have had fighting and total exterminations(lets face it the t/c to g/c death tolls are similar)HAVE MOVED ON AND INTERTWIND WITH EACH OTHER.interesting article below:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/08/world ... ss&emc=rss

notice this passage:

“For an increasing number of young Jewish men and women, the Bundeswehr is not only an attractive employer; they can also identify with its values and help shape them,” Christian Schmidt, an undersecretary in the German Defense Ministry, told the 100 or so people who attended.

Abraham Ben, the son of a concentration camp survivor who has helped organize similar events in Munich, said that he saw no problem with Jews serving in the modern German army.

“Ten years ago I would have given you a different answer,” he said.

But, he said, “Jews in Germany are no longer sitting around with their bags packed. This is home.”

Jews serving in the German Army?

and you clowns cant let 40,000 elderly g/c return to a federal northern state because of your 'fears"

[Hermes]

When you turn a blind eye to other people's plight re their human rights,you give up your right to be considered seriously when yours are violated..got that???

You misunderstand the problem. We are not demanding our rights back. We have these rights already. We are merely asking for our land and property back which the Turkish army are holding hostage. Our sovereignty over the north is similarly suspended not dissolved. Our legal and human rights are guaranteed by our membership of the EU, international law and UN resolutions. We have these rights already as the recognised government and EU citizens. Turkey wants to diminish our rights in any future solution which we refuse.

The Turkish occupation violates our rights but it does not take them away. Therefore we have not lost anything. We only lose these rights if we agree to it. But I can't think of a scenario in which we'd do that.

Currently, T/Cs are the means by which Turkey hopes to exert control over the island. Your rights are secondary to Turkey's interests on the island. The absence of rights you currently complain of is the result of the Turkish occupation which consigns you to a fake citizenship in a fake state. Therefore you are demanding your rights not from us, as you believe, but from Turkey which is currently holding hostage your rights as ROC and EU citizens. T/Cs must take responsibility for their predicament. To do so you must be sure of what you are asking for and who you are demanding it of.

Your fundamental motivation is not justice or rights but to profit at our expense. You are unable to think beyond your petty vindictiveness. But we are not playing a tit-for-tat game. We are not interested in depriving you of anything. We merely refuse to give up on our rights. It's a different game to the one you are playing.

[SKI-preo]

You talk of violation of human rights but refuse to acknowledge that this was what happened to the TCs during the 63-74 period...Unless and until you accept that and show some remorse you have no right to demand any sympathy for your own suffering..Got that???

I do not think this is how it works Bir. I respectfully suggest that any Turkish Cypriots who have suffered breaches of their individual human rights, as recognized by treaties and laws should be supported to make applications or claims in Courts to seek legal redress rather than being used as nominally persuasive propaganda tools by Turkish Fascist military occupiers. The suffering of one member of an ethnic group cannot be used to justify war crimes by other members of that ethnic group or in the case of Turkish Cypriots a related ethnic group (the Turkish Army).

This philosophy is barbaric.

[BirKibrisli]

When you turn a blind eye to other people's plight re their human rights,you give up your right to be considered seriously when yours are violated..got that???

You misunderstand the problem. We are not demanding our rights back. We have these rights already. We are merely asking for our land and property back which the Turkish army are holding hostage. Our sovereignty over the north is similarly suspended not dissolved. Our legal and human rights are guaranteed by our membership of the EU, international law and UN resolutions. We have these rights already as the recognised government and EU citizens. Turkey wants to diminish our rights in any future solution which we refuse.

The Turkish occupation violates our rights but it does not take them away. Therefore we have not lost anything. We only lose these rights if we agree to it. But I can't think of a scenario in which we'd do that.

Currently, T/Cs are the means by which Turkey hopes to exert control over the island. Your rights are secondary to Turkey's interests on the island. The absence of rights you currently complain of is the result of the Turkish occupation which consigns you to a fake citizenship in a fake state. Therefore you are demanding your rights not from us, as you believe, but from Turkey which is currently holding hostage your rights as ROC and EU citizens. T/Cs must take responsibility for their predicament. To do so you must be sure of what you are asking for and who you are demanding it of.

Your fundamental motivation is not justice or rights but to profit at our expense. You are unable to think beyond your petty vindictiveness. But we are not playing a tit-for-tat game. We are not interested in depriving you of anything. We merely refuse to give up on our rights. It's a different game to the one you are playing.

As I often say,"There is no one as blind as those who refuse to see"...

You are the prisoner of the official GC government propaganda line ,my friend. You want to reduce the whole Cyprus problem to one of Turkish occupation which began in July 1974...And thus hope that certain international bodies will use certain laws and pressures to drive Turkey out...Have you stopped and considered why all attempts to remove the Turkish Troops failed in 37 years?? I keep telling you the answer,but you refuse to see...Because you are in denial of our past bloody history and your (GC) role,and you have shown no understanding or empathy or compassion to win the TCs over in all these years,to gain their trust so they could ask Turkey to help solve our little dispute which happenes from time to time amongst big families,amongst brother and sisters,parents and siblings...

And thus you have pushed the TCs further and further into Turkey's arms,and you still refuse to see what you are doing to Cyprus...Keep trying to intimidate us (with accusations of wanting to gain over your losses,or wanting to violate your human rights),and you will inevitably bring about what you keep saying you do not want---Official partition of Cyprus...And since I don't believe you don't know what you are doing,it must be your preference to have Cyprus divided...You obviously prefer this to sharing power equally what you consider to be "Ottoman Remnants" and "Undesirable invaders"...On your head be it!

[BirKibrisli]

You talk of violation of human rights but refuse to acknowledge that this was what happened to the TCs during the 63-74 period...Unless and until you accept that and show some remorse you have no right to demand any sympathy for your own suffering..Got that???

I do not think this is how it works Bir. I respectfully suggest that any Turkish Cypriots who have suffered breaches of their individual human rights, as recognized by treaties and laws should be supported to make applications or claims in Courts to seek legal redress rather than being used as nominally persuasive propaganda tools by Turkish Fascist military occupiers. The suffering of one member of an ethnic group cannot be used to justify war crimes by other members of that ethnic group or in the case of Turkish Cypriots a related ethnic group (the Turkish Army).

This philosophy is barbaric.

You are another blind person,refusing to see,it seems...who is justifying anything??? I am trying to get some of these GC deniers of history and their own role in the mess we are in,to show some empathy and compassion for what happened to the TCs to bring about the present impasse,and all I get is accusations that I am justifying the violations of their human rights...it is simple,if you want me to have real empathy and sympathy for the violation of your human rights you have to acknowledge the violation of my human rights which came first,and which resulted in the circumstances which led to the violation of your human rights...Is that so difficult to understand.??? You too are using intimidation tactics to try to silence me,and others like me...It will not work...It hasn't worked in the past,and that is why Turkish soldiers are still in Cyprus...You cannot sweep the truth under the carpet,and try to shift your arguments to a ground you think might be in your favour...You have been trying to do it for 37 years...Isnt it time you realised something is not right with this strategy??? Unless you know exactly what you are doing and where you want this to lead???

[Hermes]

Have you stopped and considered why all attempts to remove the Turkish Troops failed in 37 years?? I keep telling you the answer,but you refuse to see...Because you are in denial of our past bloody history and your (GC) role,and you have shown no understanding or empathy or compassion to win the TCs over in all these years,to gain their trust

This is nonsense. Your own rulers have acknowledged that if NO T/C EXISTED IN CYPRUS, Turkey would still want to occupy the island. The T/Cs are nothing but a pretext for occupation not its cause. Do you seriously believe that Turkey is in Cyprus for the welfare of The T/Cs?

Your logic is completely twisted. You demand empathy for T/Cs plight over the last 37 years when they have done nothing but exploit and abuse our property and land with relish while actively collaborating with the occupation forces to ratify the partition of the island.

The reason Turkish troops are in the island for 37 years has nothing to do with the fact that we haven't shown enough sympathy for T/Cs. It is not T/Cs who are the occupying power but Turkey. I suppose you want us to apologise to the Turkish army as well for bringing them to Cyprus and keeping them away from their loved ones? That we should apologise to Turkey's leaders for not allowing them to get away with the plunder of our island?

You are an incorrigible propogandist for Turkey's worthless and stupid cause in Cyprus. Your whole raison d'etre is to justify the barabarism and looting of the occupation by accusing the Greek Cypriots as not only being the cause of it but deserving of its consequences. It is a disgusting and perverse argument you should be ashamed of.

[BirKibrisli]

Have you stopped and considered why all attempts to remove the Turkish Troops failed in 37 years?? I keep telling you the answer,but you refuse to see...Because you are in denial of our past bloody history and your (GC) role,and you have shown no understanding or empathy or compassion to win the TCs over in all these years,to gain their trust

This is nonsense. Your own rulers have acknowledged that if NO T/C EXISTED IN CYPRUS, Turkey would still want to occupy the island. The T/Cs are nothing but a pretext for occupation not its cause. Do you seriously believe that Turkey is in Cyprus for the welfare of The T/Cs?

Your logic is completely twisted. You demand empathy for T/Cs plight over the last 37 years when they have done nothing but exploit and abuse our property and land with relish while actively collaborating with the occupation forces to ratify the partition of the island.

The reason Turkish troops are in the island for 37 years has nothing to do with the fact that we haven't shown enough sympathy for T/Cs. It is not T/Cs who are the occupying power but Turkey. I suppose you want us to apologise to the Turkish army as well for bringing them to Cyprus and keeping them away from their loved ones? That we should apologise to Turkey's leaders for not allowing them to get away with the plunder of our island?

You are an incorrigible propogandist for Turkey's worthless and stupid cause in Cyprus. Your whole raison d'etre is to justify the barabarism and looting of the occupation by accusing the Greek Cypriots as not only being the cause of it but deserving of its consequences. It is a disgusting and perverse argument you should be ashamed of.

Pray tell me,what is Turkey's "worthless and stupid cause" in Cyprus...?

Time for you to come to your senses. Without the TCs there would have been no ROC Constitution and no Treaty of Guarantee...
Without the Treaty of Guarantee there would never have been an armed operation by Turkey.Without the TCs Cyprus today would have been a Greek island...You owe the existance of the ROC to the presence of the TCs in Cyprus...Time to take your hat in your hands,and reconsider how you have been treating the people who stopped you from committing political and cultural suicide...If anybody is to be ashamed it is you,for belonging to a community who wanted to gift your homeland to a foreign power...You come from a long line of traitors,and you have no moral right to point your finger to anyone...

[Gregory]

Have you stopped and considered why all attempts to remove the Turkish Troops failed in 37 years?? I keep telling you the answer,but you refuse to see...Because you are in denial of our past bloody history and your (GC) role,and you have shown no understanding or empathy or compassion to win the TCs over in all these years,to gain their trust

This is nonsense. Your own rulers have acknowledged that if NO T/C EXISTED IN CYPRUS, Turkey would still want to occupy the island. The T/Cs are nothing but a pretext for occupation not its cause. Do you seriously believe that Turkey is in Cyprus for the welfare of The T/Cs?

Your logic is completely twisted. You demand empathy for T/Cs plight over the last 37 years when they have done nothing but exploit and abuse our property and land with relish while actively collaborating with the occupation forces to ratify the partition of the island.

The reason Turkish troops are in the island for 37 years has nothing to do with the fact that we haven't shown enough sympathy for T/Cs. It is not T/Cs who are the occupying power but Turkey. I suppose you want us to apologise to the Turkish army as well for bringing them to Cyprus and keeping them away from their loved ones? That we should apologise to Turkey's leaders for not allowing them to get away with the plunder of our island?

You are an incorrigible propogandist for Turkey's worthless and stupid cause in Cyprus. Your whole raison d'etre is to justify the barabarism and looting of the occupation by accusing the Greek Cypriots as not only being the cause of it but deserving of its consequences. It is a disgusting and perverse argument you should be ashamed of.

Pray tell me,what is Turkey's "worthless and stupid cause" in Cyprus...?

Time for you to come to your senses. Without the TCs there would have been no ROC Constitution and no Treaty of Guarantee...
Without the Treaty of Guarantee there would never have been an armed operation by Turkey.Without the TCs Cyprus today would have been a Greek island...You owe the existance of the ROC to the presence of the TCs in Cyprus...Time to take your hat in your hands,and reconsider how you have been treating the people who stopped you from committing political and cultural suicide...If anybody is to be ashamed it is you,for belonging to a community who wanted to gift your homeland to a foreign power...You come from a long line of traitors,and you have no moral right to point your finger to anyone...

Without the TC's Davutoglou states quite clearly that Turkey would have a foothold on this island anyway. Its a funny state of affairs when you're a community that does not matter to Turkey, Cyprus, the EU or the world.