Cyprus-Forum.com

[Bananiot]

Masters of our own destiny? Are you feeling ok mikkie? We may be masters of the destiny of the part of Cyprus we are left with, but somehow I do not think this is what you mean.

You say Papadopoulos is very shrewed but we have not seen any signs of this shrewedness. In fact, we have seen the opposite. He signed, along with the other 24 members, a protocol that says that Turkey has done everything in her power to find a solution for the Cyprob, thus deguildifying Turkey and paving the way for negotiations to start on October 3rd 2005 without securing one iota from Turkey. His policies have been a flop to say the least and at best we can hope for some kind of movement on the Cyprob when Turkeyis ready to become a member, if Turkey ever becomes a member, when there will would be nothing to be negotiated.

[Othellos]

I am sorry Mikkie2 but I too agree that there is nothing "shrewd" about Papadopoulos and his "policy". Was it "shrewd" to send a letter to the UNSG asking him to resume talks after the Turkish side had first rejected the Annan plan? Was it "shrewd" to call over Denktash jr for drinks (or was it dinner?), and ask him to support the postponement of the referendum? Or was it shrewd to sit and take all the blame for the last major initiative that failed? Even a 5 year old would know better than doing what TP did, if u ask me.

Regarding the ongoing relations between the EU and Turkey: we all know that Turkey will never join the EU in its current form. Not because of the ongoing occupation over part of Cyprus but because the average European (who cares little about Cyprus) is neither willing nor prepared to accept this country in the Union. This is why we now see France "discovering" the occupation of Cyprus by Turkey after all this time. What took them so long, I wonder?

I will agree of course with you that Turkey's EU membership is inconceivable without a solution in Cyprus. Yet, Papadopoulos keeps voting in favor of this membership and without stating a single objection, and the reason for this is that he has no support in doing otherwise. Part of the reason for this lack of support, in my opinion, has to do with the way that Papadopoulos handled the solution issue in the days before the referendum as well as in the months that followed. But at the same time, it seems that papadopoulos has neither the skills nor the personality / ability to make the EU work to the advantage of a better solution in Cyprus.

O.

[fi]

I don't think that Papadopoulos is trying to "extract" as much as he can. It is a matter of getting a workable and acceptable solution based on human rights and international legality. The Anan plan if nothing else refused the basic human rights of free movement, property etc.

I think what is needed is completely new plan, based on european realities and not a plan that Turkey has written.

Unfortunately the TC do not have a say and it's Turkey that once again will decide what is good first for Ankara and then for the TC.

[-mikkie2-]

Masters of our own destiny? Are you feeling ok mikkie? We may be masters of the destiny of the part of Cyprus we are left with, but somehow I do not think this is what you mean.

What I mean and what you think I mean are two different things.

I mean that we are masters of our own destiny as a people and in the part of Cyprus that we live. I would rather have that than to live in a state that is under the guarantorship of the Turks.

Regarding the EU, we have signed away nothing. Your perception of what we agreed to is wrong in my opinion. What you fail to mention about agreeing for Turkey to start negotiations is that the EU has stated that it expects Turkey to continue to have a positive and constructive policy regarding Cyprus. Things did not end on the 17th of December.

And I wonder how Cyprus would be today if we said yes to the Annan plan. Considering the negative sentiment towards Turkey at this moment in time I bet that implementation of this botched plan would also be linked to Turkeys progress towards the EU, only this time we would effectively be in limbo! Turkey would now be stalling over implementation with Cyprus powerless to do anything about it. At least at the moment we have a voice in the EU. Surely that must count for something.

I would suggest that perhaps seeing a bit further than the end of your nose you may realise that there are possibilities which may actually be good. I'd rather go through a bit more pain in the short term than to cut and run.

[Bananiot]

I think you fail to translate properly, that is with political insight, the very true excerpt you have quoted.

You write

Regarding the EU, we have signed away nothing. Your perception of what we agreed to is wrong in my opinion. What you fail to mention about agreeing for Turkey to start negotiations is that the EU has stated that it expects Turkey to continue to have a positive and constructive policy regarding Cyprus. Things did not end on the 17th of December.

Please tell me if you know any country that says that Turkey has stopped doing anything in her power to be positive and constructive in the effort to find a solution. The whole world is pointing at the direction of Papadopoulos as the sole culprit for the stalemate. Papadopoulos, whom you say is a shrewd politician agreed and placed his signature that Turkey should continue to have a positive and constructive policy regarding Cyprus. This means that the EU accepts that Turkey has played a positive and constructive role and expects this country to continue to play this role. Papadopoulos went to the meeting in December threatening to use veto and emerged agreeing that Turkey is the lamb. Had Klerides done this all the pavement patriots of Cyprus would have called for his head. We, thus, have signed away any leverage we had to press Turkey for changes to the Annan Plan. On the other hand, Papadopoulos may be shrewd and this has been his agenda all along. To bury the possibilities of finding a solution. Any reaction from AKEL in the coming weeks or months may clarify the situation.

I will not respond to the other part of your answer not because of disrespect but because we have discussed these things so many times.

[-mikkie2-]

This means that the EU accepts that Turkey has played a positive and constructive role and expects this country to continue to play this role. Papadopoulos went to the meeting in December threatening to use veto and emerged agreeing that Turkey is the lamb.

Sorry, don't agree with you. By stopping Turkey in her tracks we would have shot ourselves in the foot. The game Papadopoulos is playing is to obtain concessions from Turkey step by step. It is obvious that doing it in one fell swoop with an 'agreed' solution will not work.

It may be a high risk strategy, but quite frankly so was the Annan plan (even a negotiated 'better' plan).

With Turkey under some sort of pressue, which she obvioulsy is, then we may get somewhere. For Turkey to turn inward and eastward, well that is Turkey shooting herslef in the foot! There is no way a Turkey looking eastwards would have much support in the West, particularly since it is the west that keeps the Turkish economy moving. The economic benefits to the country will far outway the nationalistic fervour surouding the Cyprus issue. At the end of the day every one has a price!

[Othellos]

The game Papadopoulos is playing is to obtain concessions from Turkey step by step.

Well, if that is the case (and I do not think that it is) so far papadopoulos has been giving away without obtaining one single thing in return. Far from what one can describe as a "brilliant strategy". I have a much simpler theory about all this: Tassos' single concern and ambition is how stay President for as long as possible.

O.

[gabaston]

o

bang on my friend. same must be said of talat too - so we shouldnt expect any change or yeild from either. the present situation suits both of their political ambitions.

[-mikkie2-]

I have a much simpler theory about all this: Tassos' single concern and ambition is how stay President for as long as possible.

Perhaps, but one has to stop and think as to what is the motivation behind it all. Why bother being president if you cannot leave your mark for the future? What is the point?

But what if he actually brings about a solution? Would his many detractors eat humble pie?

[Viewpoint]

The game Papadopoulos is playing is to obtain concessions from Turkey step by step.

Well, if that is the case (and I do not think that it is) so far papadopoulos has been giving away without obtaining one single thing in return. Far from what one can describe as a "brilliant strategy". I have a much simpler theory about all this: Tassos' single concern and ambition is how stay President for as long as possible.

O.

Totally agree Othellos, staying in power and beingpopular is more importnat than a solution as he can manipulate GCs very easily, if he was to a TCs in the head on national TV stating that he did it in self defence he would be hailed a hero and his popularity would go up, in real European countries president resign for lieing and misleading the public you guys are so guliable you will probably reward him with another term in office.

-mikkie2-

But what if he actually brings about a solution? Would his many detractors eat humble pie?

Gladly, but dont hold your breath. how long will it take for you to realize that he has no intention of negotiating a solution in good faith??? 2 5 7 years??