Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

Well done Shahmaran, you stood up to the Forum mad bully and came out on top,with a lot of help from Piratis...He should also be congratulated...I wish some of his other "true" facts were as true as this one...His political "true" facts are mostly "false" facts!!! Result of years of propaganda ,brainwashing and wishful thinking...

If that was the case then it would be very easy for you to refute the facts that I give.

You can't refute the true facts, but at the same time you don't want to accept them as accepting them would destroy the excuses that you give for demanding yet more human and democratic rights violations against the majority of the Cypriot people.

You therefore resort to personal attacks, baseless accusations, imaginary theoretical stories about what supposedly "would have happened", trying to change the discussion to something else (and then you lose the argument there as well) etc. The only thing you don't do is to actually give facts that would refute what I say

For example, most TCs come here to repeat their 63-74 story, which they are brainwashed to believe that can excuse everything and anything. We examine the facts and there we find that indeed the TCs suffered in the 60s. So we accept this true fact. But then we also find the rest of the true facts about what happened before 74, which are not included in your story. For example that the inter-communal conflict did not start in 1963, but was initiated by TCs in 1958. That 100s of GCs were also killed during that conflict. We also find the true fact that the inter-communal conflict did not last until 74, but was mostly over by 1968, and actually in 1974 not a single TC was killed until the day of the Turkish invasion.

These facts are just as true as the fact that TCs suffered in the 60s. But you refuse to accept them because by accepting them you would destroy your position that the invasion was a "peace operation" and that "The TC community never did much wrong and they are just the innocent victims that now deserve to be rewarded on the expense of the human and democratic rights of the evil GCs"

[shahmaran]

No one needs to be "brainwashed" if they actually have lived through the ordeals Piratis.

[Piratis]

No one needs to be "brainwashed" if they actually have lived through the ordeals Piratis.

I don't agree. People can be easily misled even for events that happen during their own time. See how the majority of the American public was led to believe that Iraq was manufacturing WMD and was a threat for the US.

They all saw the Word Trade Center collapse, some with their own eyes. But the citizens had no way of knowing who was behind the attacks and what the reaction of the USA should be. These are things decided by their leadership, and the people were brainwashed to accept them.

The same in Cyprus. For example the event that sparked the inter-communal conflict was the bomb at the Turkish Information Office in Nicosia in 1958. Very few at that time knew that this was a false flag operation, let alone Bir, a child living in some village in Paphos. Just because he was alive then it doesn't mean he knows all the true facts about that era.

Beyond that, the testimony of each person that lived in that era is important, but we have to understand that each person will have a very limited first hand experience for a limited amount of events. And some people who might know something which is against their side might not even reveal it. This is one of the reasons why it is so difficult to find where the missing persons are buried.

[shahmaran]

No one needs to be "brainwashed" if they actually have lived through the ordeals Piratis.

I don't agree. People can be easily misled even for events that happen during their own time. See how the majority of the American public was led to believe that Iraq was manufacturing WMD and was a threat for the US.

They all saw the Word Trade Center collapse, some with their own eyes. But the citizens had no way of knowing who was behind the attacks and what the reaction of the USA should be. These are things decided by their leadership, and the people were brainwashed to accept them.

The same in Cyprus. For example the event that sparked the inter-communal conflict was the bomb at the Turkish Information Office in Nicosia in 1958. Very few at that time knew that this was a false flag operation, let alone Bir, a child living in some village in Paphos. Just because he was alive then it doesn't mean he knows all the true facts about that era.

Beyond that, the testimony of each person that lived in that era is important, but we have to understand that each person will have a very limited first hand experience for a limited amount of events. And some people who might know something which is against their side might not even reveal it. This is one of the reasons why it is so difficult to find where the missing persons are buried.

That goes for both sides.

We all know there was a lot of provocation from both sides, the point is there would not be any ground to provocate anyone if there was no division in the first place.

Your view is no different to the view of the provocateurs who lived at those times.

"Ottoman remnants who have been robbing us from our freedom for centuries, it is time to stick one at them"

When in reality, you are talking about average people like most of us, who have no ties or even emotional ties to any Empire or motherland and just want to get on with their lives.

My family has suffered a lot from GC racism in their days, there is no record of it, I cannot prove it to you anymore, UN papers will not tell you about it either, but they are not the only people I know who has shared the same experiences. However it stands there as a fact in peoples minds and it is not going anywhere anytime soon.

Plus lets not even go into your personal view of Enosis being a "right".

Bottom line is the longer you see us as aliens the longer it will take for anything to heal, you have to get it out of your mind, we are not aliens, we are from here!

[Piratis]

What you are missing is that in the 50s nobody talked about "stick one at the Ottoman remnants". At that time the enemy were the Colonial forces and those who collaborated with them, not the TCs (or even Turks). The conflict with the TCs came only after the attacks of the TCs in 1958. I recognize the suffering of the TCs in the 60s, but it is about time for you to also recognize the major role that your own community had in creating the conflict and the problems that affected everybody.

Beyond that, the division unfortunately existed in the first place, since the population was divided into Christian/Greeks and Muslim/Turks since Ottoman times. This was a division that was exploited by the foreign Imperialists who turned the minority against the majority in their usual divide and rule practice.

About the right of the Cypriot people to democratically decide what to do with their own island, including to unite with Greece, EU or whatever, is something I talked many times. It doesn't mean that I personally support any such union, I am simply repeating the fact that this is the kind of decision that should be taken by democratic means.

I do not see you as aliens and if I ever say something that could imply such thing I only do so as a reaction to the Turkish provocation that we are aliens for the north part of our own island.

[shahmaran]

What you are missing is that in the 50s nobody talked about "stick one at the Ottoman remnants". At that time the enemy were the Colonial forces and those who collaborated with them, not the TCs (or even Turks). The conflict with the TCs came only after the attacks of the TCs in 1958. I recognize the suffering of the TCs in the 60s, but it is about time for you to also recognize the major role that your own community had in creating the conflict and the problems that affected everybody.

Beyond that, the division unfortunately existed in the first place, since the population was divided into Christian/Greeks and Muslim/Turks since Ottoman times. This was a division that was exploited by the foreign Imperialists who turned the minority against the majority in their usual divide and rule practice.

About the right of the Cypriot people to democratically decide what to do with their own island, including to unite with Greece, EU or whatever, is something I talked many times. It doesn't mean that I personally support any such union, I am simply repeating the fact that this is the kind of decision that should be taken by democratic means.

I do not see you as aliens and if I ever say something that could imply such thing I only do so as a reaction to the Turkish provocation that we are aliens for the north part of our own island.

Well that is where you are wrong, the people I was talking about mention the 50's.

The Imperialists need a basis to work on and they did not suddenly create this basis out of nothing in the 60's, it was already there.

When you say "your community" you are also wrong. I do not know anyone who was in favor of Turkey until the violence broke out. I know a few old TMT men who have been totally pushed out of the community and lead lonely sad lives, I am neighbors with some, we never speak.

Your view does not come across to be as "objective" and "fair" as you think it to be because you do not know the people on this side of the fence.

You only judge by papers and links and emotions. There is nothing fair about it.

[Piratis]

The division was already there since Ottoman times. I already said this in my previous post. However there was no conflict between the two communities until this division was exploited in the 50s, turning the TCs against the GCs with the events of 1958.

You say that you do not know anybody who was in favor of Turkey until the violence broke out. There were obviously some TCs who were in favor, and the inter-communal conflict was exactly created by them (with the support of the UK and Turkey) in order to achieve a greater divide and a conflict among the general population that would serve their aim of partition and the interests of UK and Turkey.

Tell me what exactly would GCs gain from having such kind of conflict with the TCs in the 50s? Such conflict did not even serve the interests and aims of GCs. On the other hand this conflict served those who had partition as their aim.

There is nobody who can be 100% objective and fairness depends on what each one of us considers to be fair. But if we base our arguments on the true historical events, use some common sense and put ourselves in the shoes of the other side (which can help us to eliminate double standards) then we can be much more objective and fair than when we just adopt whatever suits us and reject whatever doesn't without even bothering to examine how true it is.

[Paphitis]

I have to click refresh for the site to load for some technical reason, but here are the awards anyway...

AWARDS

1. BEST MUSIC VIDEO
WORMS by Sil Van Der Woerd

2. BEST DOCUMENTARY
FILMING DREAMS by Isidoros Leontis

3. BEST ANIMATION
THE LITTLE MOUSE WHO WANTED TO TOUCH A STAR by Panayiotis Rappas and Angelos Rouvas

4. BEST SHORT FILM
SPINALOGA by Costas Athousakis sharing the award with THEREMIN by Nikolaos Pastras

5. BEST CINEMATOGRAPHY IN A FEATURE FILM
Baghir Rafiyev for the film SAPPHO

6. BEST LEADING ACTOR IN A FEATURE FILM
Engin Altan Duzyatan leading actor in the film Heaven

7. BEST LEADING ACTRESS IN A FEATURE FILM
Ragne Veensalu, leading actress in the film Where Souls Go

8. BEST Film Editing IN A FEATURE FILM
Ron Wisman for the film CROSROAD

9. BEST MUSIC SCORE IN A FEATURE FILM
Maro Theodorakis for the music of the film SAPPHO

10. BEST SCRIPT IN A FEATURE FILM
Sameer Hanchate for the film GAFLA

11. BEST PRODUCTION DESIGN IN A FEATURE FILM
Artur Novikov for the film SAPPHO

12. BEST SETS / COSTUMES IN A FEATURE FILM
Best Costumes Tatyana Novikova for the film SAPPHO/ Best sets Sergey Gavrilenkov for the film SAPPHO

13. BEST DIRECTOR IN A FEATURE FILM
Robert Crombie for the film SAPPHO

14. GOLDEN APHRODITE S
APPHO by Robert Crombie

Those results are not from this year. Their website is crap, not well updated and can easily lead to confusion. According to their press release from the 19th of October that movie won 3 Golden Aphrodite Awards: "Bast Male Actor", "Best Scenario", "Best Direction"

http://www.cyprusfilmfestival.org/cyiff ... Itemid=100

Press release only seems to be available in Greek for now.

Oh bugger!

[shahmaran]

The division was already there since Ottoman times. I already said this in my previous post. However there was no conflict between the two communities until this division was exploited in the 50s, turning the TCs against the GCs with the events of 1958.

You say that you do not know anybody who was in favor of Turkey until the violence broke out. There were obviously some TCs who were in favor, and the inter-communal conflict was exactly created by them (with the support of the UK and Turkey) in order to achieve a greater divide and a conflict among the general population that would serve their aim of partition and the interests of UK and Turkey.

Tell me what exactly would GCs gain from having such kind of conflict with the TCs in the 50s? Such conflict did not even serve the interests and aims of GCs. On the other hand this conflict served those who had partition as their aim.

There is nobody who can be 100% objective and fairness depends on what each one of us considers to be fair. But if we base our arguments on the true historical events, use some common sense and put ourselves in the shoes of the other side (which can help us to eliminate double standards) then we can be much more objective and fair than when we just adopt whatever suits us and reject whatever doesn't without even bothering to examine how true it is.

Obviously Cyprus was open to both Turkish and Greek influence, there is nothing to show that it was the TC public that started the events.

Unless of course you take it back to the Ottoman era, but then one can also say that the Ottoman's were not the first Muslims to set foot on this island.

If you take the GC aim of ruling the entire island as a basis, then everything seems to fall into place, except the Turkish/Greek interference which caused the situation to get out of hand, later on. Obviously things did not turn out as wished for the GC's under Makarios's vision, but a similar intention clearly was there. Makarios expressed it in his own words as well.

So no, the conflict did not start with Greek or Turkish interference, things were already cooking up and the motherlands saw it as an opportunity and decided to speed things up a little. This also fits with the views of everyone who lived in that era and actually felt the tensions.

Also if you want to be objective about "historical facts", you have to understand that there is no land in this world which has been owned without a fight, Cyprus is not an exception. It just the way it goes, I am not making this up, it is written history.

So the argument of being "native" against an Imperial force which conquered the lands from another Occupier, does not hold water. If that was the case, there are way too many lands in this world that have to be handed back over to the "original inhabitants" before Cyprus.

PS. And another irrelevant thread somehow ends up geting thrown on top of the reoccurring-historical-argument-garbage pile, god dam it...

[kurupetos]

Ask your manager at BRT why he is lying Halil...

"The world representative of the film İzzet Pinto said they had no expectations to win four prizes in the festival adding that the film has won the most important prize of the festival, the ‘Golden Aphrodite’ which is given for the best film."

http://www.brtk.net/index.php?option=co ... &Itemid=28

...and come back to us with his answer. Thanks.

I don't remember the last time I watched BRT as I do not own a TV.

But the news came from Turkey, not BRT.

It appears you shouldn't own a pc either.

It's a Mac actually....

vardostogolosu!

(sorry I couldn't resist. )

Kurupetos, the man of a few words. I am surprised yo are actually in a forum...

Read my signature below!

I am the spirit and soul of this forum! Imagine how boring it would be without me! BTW, do you know where is my spiritual leader Deniz?

Yeah well you can look at it that way, or you can just see it as someone who has nothing to say

No I have not seen Deniz, nor I have any reason to see him, we do not know each other in person.

I remember another dear forumer that had a lot to say, but unfortunately he went through a mental breakdown. Do you remember him (or was it her, I can't remember )?

Anyways, we have to treat you with care, since there are not many TCs left in this forum to 'play' with.

No I do not remember, who was it?

I assure you, you're going to have to produce a hell of a lot more words than this, in order to break me down.

Not sure if you are capable of it either

Yes, please don't break like that silly lurucunt!

Don't you worry buddy...

Gardash, I do!