Cyprus-Forum.com

[lovernomore]

Again,you are taking your own interpretation as "true" facts. My point is if you dismiss the other sides arguments completely you have nowhere to go in your discussions to find a solution...You are right,there were no TCs killed in Cyprus until the invasion/intervention. But it is also a fact that the TCs were living in their own enclaves in fear for their lives. I know because i was there.Given that a known EOKA thug and TC hater had just become president after a military coup backed by Greece,nobody could say with certainty that the TCs would have been safe had the situation be allowed to continue...You are not making allowances for that...you have already decided that the TCs were in their enclaves waiting to give Turkey such an opportunity to invade...That interpretation is totally wrong..I am happy to accept that Turkey's motivation for the invasion was not purely to save the TCs. There were other factors involved as well.But that didnt matter for the TCs,for them Turkey was their saviour ,for they sincerely believed their lives were in danger...Now if you dismiss all that,and turn the whole action into a well planned and executed joint conspiracy between Turkey and the TCs to achieve Taksim you are mov ing into another realm where a solution is not possible. This had been demonstrated by the events of the past 36 years.That is why I keep harping on about understanding,empathy and compassion.If you believe that the situation is black and white,a clear cut case of Turkish expansionism you cannot possibly have any empathy for the TCs and their plight since the 50s...And if you cant have empathy you cant have compassion or understanding...And without those the whole struggle becomes one of political manouvering and counter manouvering to get the best possible outcome.And if both sides insist on their maximum demands you have the present impass. That is why a compromise is needed,from both sides,to overcome it...

Bravo be kardesim. Ne kadar guzel yazmissin. I think our Greek freinds know everything but they like to deny. Everything they say is true everything we say is lei.

[Hermes]

I think our Greek freinds know everything but they like to deny. Everything they say is true everything we say is lei.

Are you surprised? When you have the weight of justice and international law on one side and only the Turkish army and its apologists with their cynical and paranoid propaganda on the other. When justifications for the Turkish invasion are now reduced to an unfounded but apparently "sincere" belief that the T/Cs thought they were in danger. A claim that was dubious enough at the time but with the passage of 36 years, and what we now know about Turkish partitionist policy in Cyprus, is now merely a rather graceless and sinister attempt to justify the ethnic cleansing of Greek Cypriots from their land.

[Viewpoint]

Where can you go with the above mindset Its no wonder the Cyprus problem will never be solved.

[paliometoxo]

Where can you go with the above mindset Its no wonder the Cyprus problem will never be solved.

its so easy to blame the other side but with the way the turks think its no wonder we still have a cyprus problem.

[Hermes]

Where can you go with the above mindset Its no wonder the Cyprus problem will never be solved.

The Cyprus problem will not be solved on the basis of accepting Turkish propaganda about the reasons for the invasion. Especially when we are asked to now contemplate that Turkish Cypriot's hypothetical fears justified the ethnic cleansing of 200,000 Greek Cypriots from their homes.

I guess it's progress for the Turkish Cypriots to argue that no ethnic cleansing of Turkish Cypriots was ever on the agenda so keen are they to elevate themselves into victims of the situation. Instead we now have an apparently "sincere belief" that ethnic cleansing might have occurred as a possible consequence of the Athens-inspired coup. From actual victims to hypothetical victims. And yet there is no difference in the brutal logic of the invaders. It was still an act of "liberation". From what? A mistaken hypothetical victimhood. And we are asked to say what exactly to this ridiculous notion?

And this false "belief" however sincerely-held, is justification for invading, expelling the population and partitioning the country? Following a second invasion that had no justification even if you follow the dubious logic of the first invasion? It would be a sick joke if the situation on the ground wasn't so tragic.

[Viewpoint]

Hermes

The Cyprus problem will not be solved on the basis of accepting Turkish propaganda about the reasons for the invasion. Especially when we are asked to now contemplate that Turkish Cypriot's hypothetical fears justified the ethnic cleansing of 200,000 Greek Cypriots from their homes.

Its all a matter of cause and effect, the current situation is an effect of your own actions. When will you stand up and accept your own wrongs? which contributed to the division of today?

I guess it's progress for the Turkish Cypriots to argue that no ethnic cleansing of Turkish Cypriots was ever on the agenda so keen are they to elevate themselves into victims of the situation. Instead we now have an apparently "sincere belief" that ethnic cleansing might have occurred as a possible consequence of the Athens-inspired coup. From actual victims to hypothetical victims. And yet there is no difference in the brutal logic of the invaders. It was still an act of "liberation". From what? A mistaken hypothetical victimhood. And we are asked to say what exactly to this ridiculous notion?

What you have to understand is that the bully got bullied...do you understand the concept? Shall we remind you of what Sampson said about the TCs and it was no invitation to a tea party.

And this false "belief" however sincerely-held, is justification for invading, expelling the population and partitioning the country? Following a second invasion that had no justification even if you follow the dubious logic of the first invasion? It would be a sick joke if the situation on the ground wasn't so tragic.

You had the opportunity to build union after 1960 what did you do to promote one country one people? we were treated like second class citizens and discriminated against where were your morals and rightousness back then?

[Hermes]

Its all a matter of cause and effect, the current situation is an effect of your own actions. When will you stand up and accept your own wrongs? which contributed to the division of today?

Nonsense. Why should Greek Cypriots accept the Turkish game of hypothetical victimhood? A previous poster maintained that Turkey invaded on a false pretext of Turkish Cypriot "fears" which turned out to be sincerely held but unfounded. I'm sorry but how these hypothetical fears can now be used to justify the ethnic cleansing of Greek Cypriots from northern Cyprus is beyond me.

When you get this point, come back to me. But don't try and blame Greek Cypriots for the barbarism of the Turkish invasion and continuing occupation.

[Viewpoint]

Its all a matter of cause and effect, the current situation is an effect of your own actions. When will you stand up and accept your own wrongs? which contributed to the division of today?

Nonsense. Why should Greek Cypriots accept the Turkish game of hypothetical victimhood? A previous poster maintained that Turkey invaded on a false pretext of Turkish Cypriot "fears" which turned out to be sincerely held but unfounded. I'm sorry but how these hypothetical fears can now be used to justify the ethnic cleansing of Greek Cypriots from northern Cyprus is beyond me.

When you get this point, come back to me. But don't try and blame Greek Cypriots for the barbarism of the Turkish invasion and continuing occupation.

Have you ever taken the time to talk to TCs who lived through those times, their fear is very real, are they all lieing? or is ti that you do not want to accept the reality which stares you in the face as it will burst your little rightous bubble and you will have to deal with some home truths about your part in the division of today.

[boulio]

the same can be asked of you,have you ever spoken to a g/c refugee or a girl that was raped by the turkish army?and see there suffering?or a family member that a tmt ambush claimed?

[halil]

Selections from interviewing Makarios at 1964 by Richard Gilbert
http://www.threemonkeysonline.com/als/_ ... lbert.html


Gilbert: Do you think the Greek people of Cyprus still wish Enosis? [Editor's note: Political movement for the Union of Cyprus with Greece - from the Greek word for union]

Makarios: Certainly, yes. This was always the desire of the people of Cyprus.

Gilbert: If Enosis does come how do you feel, sir, about not being a member of the Commonwealth?

Makarios: I support the Commonwealth as an institution and as long as Cyprus is not united with Greece, we will continue to be a member of the Commonwealth family. The choice, however, between Enosis and Commonwealth is not a difficult one. I shall feel very happy when Cyprus is united with Greece which is our Motherland.


And Turkish Cypriots will accept the Enosis......