Cyprus-Forum.com

[ZoC]

Stop acting like our problems started in 74.

We are 2 people now and we have to go through a lot of steps to become 1 again.

you're two people - schizos... Cypriots are one.

Who are you to tell me who I am?

u said it, u shizo..

I did not say it, just an observation.

We have been apart for 35 years, we are still apart, we don't speak the same language, different religion and we have separate governments.

Don't know about you, but to me that definitely looks like 2 people.

i refer u to my previos post.

[shahmaran]

What does your previous post say?

[Piratis]

1. Kurds existed in the territory long before any Turks arrived in the area and they were never asked if they wanted their lands to be part of Turkey. The Kurdish nation has been under Ottoman rule just like the Greek, Bulgarian and many other nations. The only difference is that the Kurdish nation has not gained its independence yet.

Yes, Cyprus belongs to all of us (Cypriots) and the majority of Cypriots are Greek Cypriots. So based on what you want some "Turkish State" on land where the majority of the population are Greek Cypriots? Based on your "right" to commit genocide and ethnic cleansing and steal the lands of others?

Beyond that Cypriots have the right to decide democratically about what to do with their own country. Or maybe you know any country where the agreement of every citizen or every ethnic minority is required in order for the country to take a decision? If that was the case then we wouldn't have the right to unite Cyprus with EU. But we did, and we had every right to do so.

2. The Venetians didn't massacre Cypriots by the 10s of thousands, neither they imported 10s of thousands of their settlers on our island, which is what creates the problem on Cyprus today.

3. The Americans are your best friends and those who arm and support Turkey over the last several decades.

4. Please don't put words in my mouth. What I always say is just the facts: People emigrate all the time, especially from poor 3rd world countries as Cyprus was in those times. So yes, many Cypriots (GCs and TCs) emigraded due to these conditions. What you previously wrote however was that "the population of the TC's actually were brought down to the verge of extinction once you got any control", which is nothing but a lie. In fact the population of both GCs and TCs increased by 0.8% between 1960 and 1973:

An average rate of annual growth for both communities between 1960 and 1973 was similar and amounted to 0,8%. In consequence, the ethnic distribution of the population did not change between 1960 and 1974 and the proportion of each community remained stable.

http://assembly.coe.int/Documents/Worki ... OC9799.htm

5. What is unfortunate is that you continue to demand the same kind of racist discriminations as those that the Ottomans imposed. The Ottomans separated the population into Christians and Greeks. With the 1960 constitution you imposed a similar discrimination where the population was divided into Greeks and Turks. How many other countries do you know that discriminate their population based on their ethnicity? And today you demand even more racist discrimination and the forceful segregation of Cypriots based on their ethnicity!

You are right, this is the 21st century, so why do you behave as if we are still in the era of the Ottomans?

What I support is equality among all citizens without racist discriminations and segregation that people like you want to continue to impose on Cyprus. Those who are like the Ottomans are not all Turkish Cypriots, but the people who share the kind of middle age mentality as you do. There are Turkish Cypriots who accept democracy and accept that all Cypriots should be equal citizens without discriminations (e.g. Kikapu). It is clear that the racist in here is none else than you.

1. Being somewhere does not make you "the owner". You never asked us if we wanted our lands to be Greek! The real "genocide" and "ethnic cleansing" started long before the Turks arrived and it was not done by us. The majority of the TC's had already fled, check you "independent" sources, you will find that they will also agree that a lot of them left long before 74 and actually started to come back during the 80s, hmmmm I wonder why...

2. Yet more racist sentiments. No buddy, that does not "create the problems on the island today" that just creates YOUR problems in your limited little brain. We are not Ottomans!

3. The Americans are no ones friend, they will just pretend to be your friend if they have any gain on the matter, if they were our friends, Turkey would have invaded a long time ago and we would be recognized today. But now that you mentioned it, I take it you have forgotten that you had become an airport for the CIA all through out the Iraq invasion. Turkey did not allow them!

4. Dont talk crap Piratis. The GC police worked around the clock to make sure we had every reason to flee, everyone on the island knows it, every historian knows it, dam even that British soldiers book talks about nothing but that. Stop reshaping history to fit in your little fantasy where you are still "fighting the Ottomans". The last person to claim that was a Serb and ended up dumping thousands of executed Muslims into mass graves, remind you of anything? He has a videotape actually expressing how the war was not over, in the 20th century. You sound just as sick as he did!

5. There you go again with your racist Ottoman shite! We are not Ottomans, they were a middle age Empire who wore funny hats and had Harems!! So what you think we have no Christians living in the North anymore or in Turkey, what are you drunk?! You did also separated the people here according to their religion and you are not even a middle age Empire, what was your excuse? We are not behaving like Ottomans, we want a 21st century solution in reaction to what you did to us only 40 years ago, I think thats pretty fair to ask, considering we are not the only people in the world who are waiting for recognition.

I believe there will be democracy here, but like I said, it will be nothing like what you hope for, where it actually is GC domination, thats an etnocracy and you will never ever get it! But have fun dreaming.

ps. I do not believe that you and Kikapu spring from the same idea...

1. If the peoples who lived for millennia in a territory are not the owners of the terrotory then who is? Those who invade and occupy the territory and force their rule? Yet again you show how you have a middle age Ottoman mentality, and not a 21st (or even 20th) century mentality which recognizes the right of people to live free on their lands.

Cyprus was already a Greek island long before Turks arrived here. So if you don't like this fact you can blame it on those who brought you here, not on the majority of the Cypriot population.

Show me even one independent source that shows that "The majority of the TC's had already fled... before 74 and actually started to come back during the 80s". I will repeat:

An average rate of annual growth for both communities between 1960 and 1973 was similar and amounted to 0,8%. In consequence, the ethnic distribution of the population did not change between 1960 and 1974 and the proportion of each community remained stable.

http://assembly.coe.int/Documents/Worki ... OC9799.htm

2. Unfortunately many of you share the same mentality as the Ottomans and that is what creates the problems.

3. Without the Americans Turkey would be nothing. Lets hope that at some point the Turkish leadership will became stupid enough not to realize this fact. This will be great news for Cyprus.

4. If everybody knows the nonsense that you are talking about then how come you didn't find a reliable independent source to back up what you claim?

Here are the facts, once again:

An average rate of annual growth for both communities between 1960 and 1973 was similar and amounted to 0,8%. In consequence, the ethnic distribution of the population did not change between 1960 and 1974 and the proportion of each community remained stable.

http://assembly.coe.int/Documents/Worki ... OC9799.htm

5. Oh, sure, there are Christians in Turkey and north Cyprus, but they are a tiny fraction of what they used to be just a few decades ago, a result of the genocides and ethnic cleansing the Turks committed against them.

What did we do 40 years ago? Are you referring to the inter-communal conflict which the TCs started in 1958? I talk all about it here:

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=30000

It is obvious that you are looking for excuses to yet again violate the human and democratic rights of the Cypriot people. Unfortunately for you not even your lame excuses stand because it is the Turks and TCs who started each and every war and conflict in Cyprus.

[shahmaran]

1. Kurds existed in the territory long before any Turks arrived in the area and they were never asked if they wanted their lands to be part of Turkey. The Kurdish nation has been under Ottoman rule just like the Greek, Bulgarian and many other nations. The only difference is that the Kurdish nation has not gained its independence yet.

Yes, Cyprus belongs to all of us (Cypriots) and the majority of Cypriots are Greek Cypriots. So based on what you want some "Turkish State" on land where the majority of the population are Greek Cypriots? Based on your "right" to commit genocide and ethnic cleansing and steal the lands of others?

Beyond that Cypriots have the right to decide democratically about what to do with their own country. Or maybe you know any country where the agreement of every citizen or every ethnic minority is required in order for the country to take a decision? If that was the case then we wouldn't have the right to unite Cyprus with EU. But we did, and we had every right to do so.

2. The Venetians didn't massacre Cypriots by the 10s of thousands, neither they imported 10s of thousands of their settlers on our island, which is what creates the problem on Cyprus today.

3. The Americans are your best friends and those who arm and support Turkey over the last several decades.

4. Please don't put words in my mouth. What I always say is just the facts: People emigrate all the time, especially from poor 3rd world countries as Cyprus was in those times. So yes, many Cypriots (GCs and TCs) emigraded due to these conditions. What you previously wrote however was that "the population of the TC's actually were brought down to the verge of extinction once you got any control", which is nothing but a lie. In fact the population of both GCs and TCs increased by 0.8% between 1960 and 1973:

An average rate of annual growth for both communities between 1960 and 1973 was similar and amounted to 0,8%. In consequence, the ethnic distribution of the population did not change between 1960 and 1974 and the proportion of each community remained stable.

http://assembly.coe.int/Documents/Worki ... OC9799.htm

5. What is unfortunate is that you continue to demand the same kind of racist discriminations as those that the Ottomans imposed. The Ottomans separated the population into Christians and Greeks. With the 1960 constitution you imposed a similar discrimination where the population was divided into Greeks and Turks. How many other countries do you know that discriminate their population based on their ethnicity? And today you demand even more racist discrimination and the forceful segregation of Cypriots based on their ethnicity!

You are right, this is the 21st century, so why do you behave as if we are still in the era of the Ottomans?

What I support is equality among all citizens without racist discriminations and segregation that people like you want to continue to impose on Cyprus. Those who are like the Ottomans are not all Turkish Cypriots, but the people who share the kind of middle age mentality as you do. There are Turkish Cypriots who accept democracy and accept that all Cypriots should be equal citizens without discriminations (e.g. Kikapu). It is clear that the racist in here is none else than you.

1. Being somewhere does not make you "the owner". You never asked us if we wanted our lands to be Greek! The real "genocide" and "ethnic cleansing" started long before the Turks arrived and it was not done by us. The majority of the TC's had already fled, check you "independent" sources, you will find that they will also agree that a lot of them left long before 74 and actually started to come back during the 80s, hmmmm I wonder why...

2. Yet more racist sentiments. No buddy, that does not "create the problems on the island today" that just creates YOUR problems in your limited little brain. We are not Ottomans!

3. The Americans are no ones friend, they will just pretend to be your friend if they have any gain on the matter, if they were our friends, Turkey would have invaded a long time ago and we would be recognized today. But now that you mentioned it, I take it you have forgotten that you had become an airport for the CIA all through out the Iraq invasion. Turkey did not allow them!

4. Dont talk crap Piratis. The GC police worked around the clock to make sure we had every reason to flee, everyone on the island knows it, every historian knows it, dam even that British soldiers book talks about nothing but that. Stop reshaping history to fit in your little fantasy where you are still "fighting the Ottomans". The last person to claim that was a Serb and ended up dumping thousands of executed Muslims into mass graves, remind you of anything? He has a videotape actually expressing how the war was not over, in the 20th century. You sound just as sick as he did!

5. There you go again with your racist Ottoman shite! We are not Ottomans, they were a middle age Empire who wore funny hats and had Harems!! So what you think we have no Christians living in the North anymore or in Turkey, what are you drunk?! You did also separated the people here according to their religion and you are not even a middle age Empire, what was your excuse? We are not behaving like Ottomans, we want a 21st century solution in reaction to what you did to us only 40 years ago, I think thats pretty fair to ask, considering we are not the only people in the world who are waiting for recognition.

I believe there will be democracy here, but like I said, it will be nothing like what you hope for, where it actually is GC domination, thats an etnocracy and you will never ever get it! But have fun dreaming.

ps. I do not believe that you and Kikapu spring from the same idea...

1. If the peoples who lived for millennia in a territory are not the owners of the terrotory then who is? Those who invade and occupy the territory and force their rule? Yet again you show how you have a middle age Ottoman mentality, and not a 21st (or even 20th) century mentality which recognizes the right of people to live free on their lands.

Cyprus was already a Greek island long before Turks arrived here. So if you don't like this fact you can blame it on those who brought you here, not on the majority of the Cypriot population.

Show me even one independent source that shows that "The majority of the TC's had already fled... before 74 and actually started to come back during the 80s". I will repeat:

An average rate of annual growth for both communities between 1960 and 1973 was similar and amounted to 0,8%. In consequence, the ethnic distribution of the population did not change between 1960 and 1974 and the proportion of each community remained stable.

http://assembly.coe.int/Documents/Worki ... OC9799.htm

2. Unfortunately many of you share the same mentality as the Ottomans and that is what creates the problems.

3. Without the Americans Turkey would be nothing. Lets hope that at some point the Turkish leadership will became stupid enough not to realize this fact. This will be great news for Cyprus.

4. If everybody knows the nonsense that you are talking about then how come you didn't find a reliable independent source to back up what you claim?

Here are the facts, once again:

An average rate of annual growth for both communities between 1960 and 1973 was similar and amounted to 0,8%. In consequence, the ethnic distribution of the population did not change between 1960 and 1974 and the proportion of each community remained stable.

http://assembly.coe.int/Documents/Worki ... OC9799.htm

5. Oh, sure, there are Christians in Turkey and north Cyprus, but they are a tiny fraction of what they used to be just a few decades ago, a result of the genocides and ethnic cleansing the Turks committed against them.

What did we do 40 years ago? Are you referring to the inter-communal conflict which the TCs started in 1958? I talk all about it here:

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=30000

It is obvious that you are looking for excuses to yet again violate the human and democratic rights of the Cypriot people. Unfortunately for you not even your lame excuses stand because it is the Turks and TCs who started each and every war and conflict in Cyprus.

1. You first get the US or the Ozzies to buy that crap and then come back and we shall buy it too, I promise

2. You are not different to the mentality any Imperial forces hold.

3. Without America people will just join to the next big force. Being in the middle does not gain anyone anything, it is all about the polarization, there is no other way. You are suckers of Russia and the EU (also Israel now) and without them you are nothing either, don't kid yourself, you really are nothing by yourself.

4. The information I gave you was from the "independent" American source you told me about the other day, I am just too lazy to quote. You are very well known to "miss-quote" from your own sources. I know like the back of my hand that your agenda is not what you make it out to be.

5. This has nothing to do with "Turks" but the government in charge at the time + the influence of the army which was relevant to the General in charge. Like I said Turkey is still coming to terms with the 2 coups they had to live through. But it is not a surprise that you would naturally tie to their ethnicity because, you know, you being the most serious racist person on this forum and all, I bet you really do hold one of them horrendous green tattoos.

I am looking for nothing but my own human rights that have been demolished due to recorded reasons I have no control nor say on, and I was not even around at the time of their presence.

All I know is that your mentality has perpetuated the situation into which I was born into and I will support any and everything I possibly can, that would help me eradicate it.

Apart from the above, I have no racial issues what so ever!

[Piratis]

1. Why go to the US or the Ozzies? Didn't the Turks do the same thing with Asia Minor? But of course you think that just because these kind of things were the norm centuries ago, that this gives you the right to continue committing such crimes today. What more proof do you need that you have a mentality of the middle ages?

2. Imperial forces are those who oppressed and continue to oppress my island. I have absolutely nothing to do with their mentality, quite the contrary.

3. I never claimed that Cyprus is something big by itself. It is the Turks who think that they are some great super power and they don't realize that without the Americans they are just another Iraq.

4. Whenever I give a quote from a source I copy it exactly as it is and I give a link to it so everybody can check it. On the other hand you never back up your claims.

5. So when the Turks commit whole genocides and ethnic cleansing this has nothing to do with the Turks but just with specific individuals. But when the Greeks (or GCs) do even the smallest mistake, this reflects on the whole population and can be used as an excuse to indiscriminately violate the human and democratic rights of the whole population You yet again show how big racist you are.

You are not looking just for your human rights. In fact nobody demands from you to sacrifice even a single of your human rights. It is your side which demands that our most basic human and democratic rights should be compromised so that your community can have gains on our expense.