Cyprus-Forum.com

[Cossie]

I agree the Cyprus problem is a relic of the cold war, but you cant deny its also a relic of the crusades..christians V muslems. Like all nasty human conflicts since 30AD it began with religion.

[ZoC]

I agree the Cyprus problem is a relic of the cold war, but you cant deny its also a relic of the crusades..christians V muslems. Like all nasty human conflicts since 30AD it began with religion.

religion didn't begin in 30AD... and nasty human conflicts have been going on long before then.

[wyoming cowboy]

I agree the Cyprus problem is a relic of the cold war, but you cant deny its also a relic of the crusades..christians V muslems. Like all nasty human conflicts since 30AD it began with religion.

actually religion didnt have much of an impact with the cyprus problem, both parties were relatively respectful of each others religion. Makarios was an archbishop and was accepted by the turk cyps as their president.

[wyoming cowboy]

sure it can but the tc and turkey are using the argument that it was an ethnic conflict which it wasnt, Cyprus has not used the cold war argument and keeps falling into the turk trap that a bizonal federation is needed to preserve the survival of the tc......if the cold war argument is used more effectively then the occupation of Cyprus becomes as antiquated as the Berlin Wall.

So, what about Cretan and Rhodesian Turks that had no chance to "create a problem" and most of them had to left the islands they inhabitted for 100s of years?

Why didn't the cold war affect the strategically important island Crete or Rhodes and cause a conflict there similar to Cyprus problem?

i remember reading about kofinou, there were pics of samson carrying a turk flag

There are still many Turks in Rhodes. As for Crete, they left for Turkey. Nice decision!

The Land Forces on Crete 1897/98

Crete (Greek: Kriti, Turkish: Kirid, Italian: Candia) one of the largest islands in the Mediterranean Sea was in the last half of the 19th century an area of permanent troubles. The majority of inhabitants were of the Christian religion and rebelled against the Muslim minority which was supported by the local Ottoman government. After the great mutiny in 1866/67 the major powers advised the Ottoman Sultan to pass the authority over Crete to Greece to avoid any further bloody hostilities. The Ottoman government however refused but gave extensive autonomy and granted amnesty for the rebels. But the situation between the hostile members of the different religions didn't calm down especially because the Greek authorities permanently sent money, weapons and agitators to the island, ignoring the international agreement of 1869. Again In 1878 a major mutiny had to be put down by the legal Ottoman authorities under Mutkhtar Pasha, followed by more concessions to local self government in 1879 and again in 1889. This was good for the local people but of course not satisfying for the Greek government. They continued to stir the thorny situation by supporting the rebels with money and weapons. Again a critical point was reached when the Greek government started to transport armed soldiers of fortune to Crete in 1896 to support a new mutiny against the local government. In January 1897 the whole island was on fire, the majority (about 60%) of the inhabitants started to fight and kill the Muslim minority with the dedicated goal of joining Crete to the Greek Kingdom - a war between the Ottoman Empire and Greece was imminent. On the 15th of February 1897 2000 Greek soldiers, commanded by Colonel Vassos, landed at Crete to proclaim the union with Greece. In this situation the European major powers agreed to calm down the situation by blockading the island with ships to prohibit any troop transports, from whom ever, to Crete. Also an international peace force landed and took over control of several important places and ending any hostilities. Especially Russia, France and Italy were interested in weakening the Ottoman Empire and so they enforced their troublesome compromise to appoint the Greek Prince George as commissioner-ruler (Harmostes) of Crete but leave the island under the sovereignty of the Ottoman Sultan. The gendarmerie was newly formed under Italian control and the small local militia was put under control of foreign, mainly British, officers. No wonder that such a compromise against more than 30% of the inhabitants who were of Muslim religion and defacto deprived of their rights, could not work. After more mutinies, the largest in 1905, huge numbers of Cretan Muslims fled to the Ottoman mainland and at the end Crete became a part of the Greek Kingdom in 1913.


http://www.austro-hungarian-army.co.uk/troopscreta.htm

Had TCs not resisted by collaborating with Brits and Turkey, they would have shared the same fate of the Cretan Turks... So, before the cold war almost no TCs would have left in Cyprus... GR would have born in a Greek island and been a proud Hellene...

there were 15000 fully armed Greek troops on Cyprus in 1967, when George Papandreou was PM, after the right wing coup the junta through American pressure withdraws the troops, If everyones intentions was enosis in 67 why wasnt it executed????

The Junta withdrew the Greek troops in 1967 because Turkey threatened to invade had they stayed. This came about after Grivas made a terrible mistake and tried to destroy two TC villages, Aytotro and Kofunye ,because the TCs had cut some road and wasnt allowing GC police into their villages...Grivas was withdrawn at the same time...It is all in Clerides' memoirs,if you dont believe me...

[Cossie]

I agree the Cyprus problem is a relic of the cold war, but you cant deny its also a relic of the crusades..christians V muslems. Like all nasty human conflicts since 30AD it began with religion.

actually religion didnt have much of an impact with the cyprus problem, both parties were relatively respectful of each others religion. Makarios was an archbishop and was accepted by the turk cyps as their president.

The choice of 30AD refers pointedly to Christianity, or am I being oblique for you? Yes there are many reasons that people go to war, but religion is the most often difference that underlies countless conflicts. I think we should ask TC's (a term I despise as much as I despise GC) whether they 'actively' supported Makarios as President.

The Cold war provided one of the excuses for the Britain staying put in Cyprus, but it was the only reason. Britain had its eye to the east and left the US to look north from a much better location...Turkey. Do you really believe that religion didn't fan the fire in the dark places in peoples hearts and drove the bigotry on both sides?

[wyoming cowboy]

I agree the Cyprus problem is a relic of the cold war, but you cant deny its also a relic of the crusades..christians V muslems. Like all nasty human conflicts since 30AD it began with religion.

actually religion didnt have much of an impact with the cyprus problem, both parties were relatively respectful of each others religion. Makarios was an archbishop and was accepted by the turk cyps as their president.

The choice of 30AD refers pointedly to Christianity, or am I being oblique for you? Yes there are many reasons that people go to war, but religion is the most often difference that underlies countless conflicts. I think we should ask TC's (a term I despise as much as I despise GC) whether they 'actively' supported Makarios as President.

The Cold war provided one of the excuses for the Britain staying put in Cyprus, but it was the only reason. Britain had its eye to the east and left the US to look north from a much better location...Turkey. Do you really believe that religion didn't fan the fire in the dark places in peoples hearts and drove the bigotry on both sides?

In the case of Cyprus religion was not a primary factor for the disputes among the two ethnic groups, it might have been used as a secondary factor of interethnic conflict but again as the tc were comfortable with a christian orthodox archbishop as president, up until the coup, as a matter of fact as soon as he was deposed in a right wing coup, the turks and tc reacted violently to a known militia leader being president

[insan]

I agree the Cyprus problem is a relic of the cold war, but you cant deny its also a relic of the crusades..christians V muslems. Like all nasty human conflicts since 30AD it began with religion.

actually religion didnt have much of an impact with the cyprus problem, both parties were relatively respectful of each others religion. Makarios was an archbishop and was accepted by the turk cyps as their president.

The choice of 30AD refers pointedly to Christianity, or am I being oblique for you? Yes there are many reasons that people go to war, but religion is the most often difference that underlies countless conflicts. I think we should ask TC's (a term I despise as much as I despise GC) whether they 'actively' supported Makarios as President.

The Cold war provided one of the excuses for the Britain staying put in Cyprus, but it was the only reason. Britain had its eye to the east and left the US to look north from a much better location...Turkey. Do you really believe that religion didn't fan the fire in the dark places in peoples hearts and drove the bigotry on both sides?

In the case of Cyprus religion was not a primary factor for the disputes among the two ethnic groups, it might have been used as a secondary factor of interethnic conflict but again as the tc were comfortable with a christian orthodox archbishop as president, up until the coup, as a matter of fact as soon as he was deposed in a right wing coup, the turks and tc reacted violently to a known militia leader being president

True! ... and actually GCs were very comfortable under the Ottoman administration up until they had got inspired by the Greek independence war... Though they must had had a little bit of Turco-Phobia and islamo-phobia... ermm... you know why... Atilla, 1071, 1453, 1571, Ottoman expansionism, Crusaders Vs Muslims, Greco-Turkish wars, events of 1955-1960 etc...
















... but against the all odds, there was a perfect harmony between GCs and TCs up until Makarios had been considered as a militia leader by the TCs...

[wyoming cowboy]

I agree the Cyprus problem is a relic of the cold war, but you cant deny its also a relic of the crusades..christians V muslems. Like all nasty human conflicts since 30AD it began with religion.

actually religion didnt have much of an impact with the cyprus problem, both parties were relatively respectful of each others religion. Makarios was an archbishop and was accepted by the turk cyps as their president.

The choice of 30AD refers pointedly to Christianity, or am I being oblique for you? Yes there are many reasons that people go to war, but religion is the most often difference that underlies countless conflicts. I think we should ask TC's (a term I despise as much as I despise GC) whether they 'actively' supported Makarios as President.

The Cold war provided one of the excuses for the Britain staying put in Cyprus, but it was the only reason. Britain had its eye to the east and left the US to look north from a much better location...Turkey. Do you really believe that religion didn't fan the fire in the dark places in peoples hearts and drove the bigotry on both sides?

In the case of Cyprus religion was not a primary factor for the disputes among the two ethnic groups, it might have been used as a secondary factor of interethnic conflict but again as the tc were comfortable with a christian orthodox archbishop as president, up until the coup, as a matter of fact as soon as he was deposed in a right wing coup, the turks and tc reacted violently to a known militia leader being president

True! ... and actually GCs were very comfortable under the Ottoman administration up until they had got inspired by the Greek independence war... Though they must had had a little bit of Turco-Phobia and islamo-phobia... ermm... you know why... Atilla, 1071, 1453, 1571, Ottoman expansionism, Crusaders Vs Muslims, Greco-Turkish wars, events of 1955-1960 etc...
















... but against the all odds, there was a perfect harmony between GCs and TCs up until Makarios had been considered as a militia leader by the TCs...

"but against the all odds, there was a perfect harmony between GCs and TCs up until Makarios had been considered as a militia leader by the TCs... "


When was he considered to be a militia leader when he was the President of the Republic.......you dont make any sense. You keep harping on about EOKA B they werent formed until 1971, and they were formed in order to overthrow Makarios...EOKA B had nothing to do with the TC's

[Viewpoint]

Makarios = enosis = TC death warrant

[wyoming cowboy]

Makarios = enosis = TC death warrant

you cannot make an argument about Makarios and enosis after the formation of the Republic of Cyprus, How does Makarios = enosis when EOKA B was brought in in 1971 to overthrow using the argument tht Makarios was not for enosis