Cyprus-Forum.com

[Oracle]

I understand you like or support him, and there is nothing wrong with that. I support him as well, and really hope he gets his act together and solves the Cyprus Problem as well as preserve the fundamental human and democratic rights of the Cypriot people and not make things worse. I think this is what we all want!

But there are some differences of opinion. You think he is good, I think he is bad! Therefore, it would be nice if you can tell me exactly what it is you believe is so good about his handling of the Cyprus Issue. Those of us that have lost our faith in this man would very much appreciate it, and if you can show us some of the silver lining, then perhaps you might convince some of us to be less harsh on him.

There are naturally no right or wrong answers. Just differences in opinion!

Anyway, this has been a nice exchange. It is a real shame that some go out of their way to ruin things for everyone!

It is a matter of differences of opinion, as you say, but also differences in attitude. I didn't raise my expectations of this government beyond what was humanly possible. And he hasn't actually failed us. To criticise him already, midway, is to undermine the democratic process, insult his voters and prematurely condemn him when his job is clearly not finished. The label "Communist" is anachronistic since he isn't -- but the label has stuck, and it irks some. He is a socialist (IMO) and that is best for Cyprus at the moment. Being war-torn, inland revenue should be tightly regulated centrally, by necessity. So, his left-leanings are a positive.

I don't think he's stupid. He is at least average or even clever. As an average person myself, I can see he has offered the Turks a lot of generous concessions. Why haven't they accepted them? Did you expect them to accept them? I don't think Christofias expected them to. He knows what the Turks want, as well you and I do. They want a permanent, legal, recognised foothold in Cyprus. He is NOT giving them that, is he? Instead, he has highlighted their greed. Ashamed, they turn their eyes eastwards. But, the east is changing and Turkey will be isolated. Constitutional changes? What forced them to make such a show of reinvention?

This is why I now think he is not just average but tends to the clever side. He has categorically stated that nothing is decided until everything is decided and that is his catch all loophole should the Turks double-bluff and accept one of his concessions.

Perhaps he is super-clever and so we have to rise to his expectations of us. He keeps reminding us that he is aiming for ONE sovereignty. That is what all (sane) GCs want. But some of us forget, ignore, miss this most important caveat which underpins his every speech to us. It's the idiots (on our side) who run along with every tongue-twister he struggles with and suppose all he says is all that matters ignoring all his actions. Look where he was! Look how much support came from Congress through him being in the US. Turkey could actually be facing US sanctions for the first time ... ever! On our behalf!

Also, I think he is a genuinely warm man. That is my intuition -- and I bet those who spend time with him pick up on this and I feel that a lot of support that has come Cyprus' way recently has a lot to do with those other countries' leaders actually trusting Christophias.

Anyway, I may have to borrow a cup of sugar from him someday

[Paphiti, there is a reason why I've been avoiding long exchanges on the forum these days -- it's fair enough to have a throwaway comment generating 10 posts of shit by gasfart; but I just hate that evil-watched-feeling when you begin to snuggle down for some mind-satisfying, read-between-the-lines dialogues which come from us knowing each other well, only to have some screeching helium filled banshee interrupt and disrupt the flow -- if it continues much more, I shall go back to communicating by PMs again ]

[Paphitis]

I understand you like or support him, and there is nothing wrong with that. I support him as well, and really hope he gets his act together and solves the Cyprus Problem as well as preserve the fundamental human and democratic rights of the Cypriot people and not make things worse. I think this is what we all want!

But there are some differences of opinion. You think he is good, I think he is bad! Therefore, it would be nice if you can tell me exactly what it is you believe is so good about his handling of the Cyprus Issue. Those of us that have lost our faith in this man would very much appreciate it, and if you can show us some of the silver lining, then perhaps you might convince some of us to be less harsh on him.

There are naturally no right or wrong answers. Just differences in opinion!

Anyway, this has been a nice exchange. It is a real shame that some go out of their way to ruin things for everyone!

It is a matter of differences of opinion, as you say, but also differences in attitude. I didn't raise my expectations of this government beyond what was humanly possible. And he hasn't actually failed us. To criticise him already, midway, is to undermine the democratic process, insult his voters and prematurely condemn him when his job is clearly not finished. The label "Communist" is anachronistic since he isn't -- but the label has stuck, and it irks some. He is a socialist (IMO) and that is best for Cyprus at the moment. Being war-torn, inland revenue should be tightly regulated centrally, by necessity. So, his left-leanings are a positive.

I agree that he is more Socialist. I stated earlier that I don't believe there is any such thing as an authentic Communist (IMO) in Cyprus. If there are Communists in Cyprus, then they certainly are not very good at practicing the Communist ideals.

He is obviously pro Free Market and Enterprise. There really is no other option, the world over because Free Enterprise is just something which fits in with human nature! Highly debatable that a Centralized system will be good for Cyprus. In fact, I believe there are merits in reducing tax and turn Cyprus into a mega tax haven.

But having debate, and the voices of his critics do not undermine democracy. This surely embellishes democracy. But he is certainly NOT the the best option for Cyprus as many have come to realize. I really don't have any issue with Socialism. In fact, I also stated previous that the best leader (imo) is Yiannakis Omirou of Socialist EDEK. That's the way I am. I will switch and change according to my assessment on policies and behavior.

I don't think he's stupid. He is at least average or even clever. As an average person myself, I can see he has offered the Turks a lot of generous concessions. Why haven't they accepted them? Did you expect them to accept them? I don't think Christofias expected them to. He knows what the Turks want, as well you and I do. They want a permanent, legal, recognised foothold in Cyprus. He is NOT giving them that, is he? Instead, he has highlighted their greed. Ashamed, they turn their eyes eastwards. But, the east is changing and Turkey will be isolated. Constitutional changes? What forced them to make such a show of reinvention?

Well, let's hope the world sees this Turkish greed!

But it needs to be asked. If he knew that his concessions will never be accepted and that the Turks will offer no concessions of their own, then why make those concessions to begin with?

This is why I now think he is not just average but tends to the clever side. He has categorically stated that nothing is decided until everything is decided and that is his catch all loophole should the Turks double-bluff and accept one of his concessions.

Yes, he has stated it and it has been reiterated by the UN.

But the Turks make their own rules as they go along, and they have a very active foreign diplomacy which is very active in painting themselves as the "good guys".

Perhaps he is super-clever and so we have to rise to his expectations of us. He keeps reminding us that he is aiming for ONE sovereignty. That is what all (sane) GCs want. But some of us forget, ignore, miss this most important caveat which underpins his every speech to us. It's the idiots (on our side) who run along with every tongue-twister he struggles with and suppose all he says is all that matters ignoring all his actions. Look where he was! Look how much support came from Congress through him being in the US. Turkey could actually be facing US sanctions for the first time ... ever! On our behalf!

No, I don't think he is super-clever. Sorry!

Yes, I saw that the US might consider some Military Sanctions.

How much do you think Israel and AIPAC might be behind this push? It takes the US 36 years to mention sanctions. Why now?

Turkey, has pissed off many countries. It has even pissed Australia off recently. They are black mailing the Australian Government. Long may this trend continue!

Also, I think he is a genuinely warm man. That is my intuition -- and I bet those who spend time with him pick up on this and I feel that a lot of support that has come Cyprus' way recently has a lot to do with those other countries' leaders actually trusting Christophias.

Anyway, I may have to borrow a cup of sugar from him someday

Well, I don't think he is a very loyal person. I still can't believe what he did to Tassos! I didn't like that at all!

Have you met him? What is he like?

I think he is a typical Cypriot bogan!!!

[Paphiti, there is a reason why I've been avoiding long exchanges on the forum these days -- it's fair enough to have a throwaway comment generating 10 posts of shit by gasfart; but I just hate that evil-watched-feeling when you begin to snuggle down for some mind-satisfying, read-between-the-lines dialogues which come from us knowing each other well, only to have some screeching helium filled banshee interrupt and disrupt the flow -- if it continues much more, I shall go back to communicating by PMs again ]

OK, understood!

And your opinions are always respected as far as I am concerned. It doesn't matter that we disagree! I think we agree on most things anyway, and at the end of the day we all want the same thing.

Just ignore the banshee. I can't! I just tell it to "piss off". It deserves this kind of contempt as it only strives to provoke and offers nothing else.

Good chat, and you make your points very well, as always. And I accept your point of view/opinions.

[repulsewarrior]

It is correct ..... Cyprus was screwed by motherlands.... Cyprus was screwed by Eoka and Tmt...... Both of them were supported by motherlands deep states. They were small groups but they were enough to terrorised both community population , at the end Our fathers were obeying orders of those organizations. They were holding guns in their hands. we were all fools as well. I hope both parties got their own mistakes from past and will try to established BBF in Cyprus which i believe it is the only workable solution in Cyprus. Yes , Christofias said similar words as well yesterday. He made good for saying that.

...i am glad you said this halil

[miltiades]

It is correct ..... Cyprus was screwed by motherlands.... Cyprus was screwed by Eoka and Tmt...... Both of them were supported by motherlands deep states. They were small groups but they were enough to terrorised both community population , at the end Our fathers were obeying orders of those organizations. They were holding guns in their hands. we were all fools as well. I hope both parties got their own mistakes from past and will try to established BBF in Cyprus which i believe it is the only workable solution in Cyprus. Yes , Christofias said similar words as well yesterday. He made good for saying that.

...i am glad you said this halil

I know Halil well enough and I know full well he means what he posted.
I agree wholeheartedly !

[denizaksulu]

I understand you like or support him, and there is nothing wrong with that. I support him as well, and really hope he gets his act together and solves the Cyprus Problem as well as preserve the fundamental human and democratic rights of the Cypriot people and not make things worse. I think this is what we all want!

But there are some differences of opinion. You think he is good, I think he is bad! Therefore, it would be nice if you can tell me exactly what it is you believe is so good about his handling of the Cyprus Issue. Those of us that have lost our faith in this man would very much appreciate it, and if you can show us some of the silver lining, then perhaps you might convince some of us to be less harsh on him.

There are naturally no right or wrong answers. Just differences in opinion!

Anyway, this has been a nice exchange. It is a real shame that some go out of their way to ruin things for everyone!

It is a matter of differences of opinion, as you say, but also differences in attitude. I didn't raise my expectations of this government beyond what was humanly possible. And he hasn't actually failed us. To criticise him already, midway, is to undermine the democratic process, insult his voters and prematurely condemn him when his job is clearly not finished. The label "Communist" is anachronistic since he isn't -- but the label has stuck, and it irks some. He is a socialist (IMO) and that is best for Cyprus at the moment. Being war-torn, inland revenue should be tightly regulated centrally, by necessity. So, his left-leanings are a positive.

I don't think he's stupid. He is at least average or even clever. As an average person myself, I can see he has offered the Turks a lot of generous concessions. Why haven't they accepted them? Did you expect them to accept them? I don't think Christofias expected them to. He knows what the Turks want, as well you and I do. They want a permanent, legal, recognised foothold in Cyprus. He is NOT giving them that, is he? Instead, he has highlighted their greed. Ashamed, they turn their eyes eastwards. But, the east is changing and Turkey will be isolated. Constitutional changes? What forced them to make such a show of reinvention?

This is why I now think he is not just average but tends to the clever side. He has categorically stated that nothing is decided until everything is decided and that is his catch all loophole should the Turks double-bluff and accept one of his concessions.

Perhaps he is super-clever and so we have to rise to his expectations of us. He keeps reminding us that he is aiming for ONE sovereignty. That is what all (sane) GCs want. But some of us forget, ignore, miss this most important caveat which underpins his every speech to us. It's the idiots (on our side) who run along with every tongue-twister he struggles with and suppose all he says is all that matters ignoring all his actions. Look where he was! Look how much support came from Congress through him being in the US. Turkey could actually be facing US sanctions for the first time ... ever! On our behalf!

Also, I think he is a genuinely warm man. That is my intuition -- and I bet those who spend time with him pick up on this and I feel that a lot of support that has come Cyprus' way recently has a lot to do with those other countries' leaders actually trusting Christophias.

Anyway, I may have to borrow a cup of sugar from him someday

[Paphiti, there is a reason why I've been avoiding long exchanges on the forum these days -- it's fair enough to have a throwaway comment generating 10 posts of shit by gasfart; but I just hate that evil-watched-feeling when you begin to snuggle down for some mind-satisfying, read-between-the-lines dialogues which come from us knowing each other well, only to have some screeching helium filled banshee interrupt and disrupt the flow -- if it continues much more, I shall go back to communicating by PMs again ]

What a brill idea. I say keep the Cyprus Forum litter free. If you cant a a discussion without resorting to.....................oh, why do I waste my time. As we say, 40 senelik Yianni olur mu Kani? It must be a Greek fingy. If you have no answer let out a salvo of insult. Typical

[BOF]

I dont think Christofias is doing something new making a statement regarding the Greek incursion into Cyprus, just repeating what Makarios said previously some years before when he made a speech and called it an Invasion..
Theres no mistake about who he was talking about.

no comments from those that express themselves so eloquently?

Quote from pap..
"How much do you think Israel and AIPAC might be behind this push?"
Answer = second word is All!

I wish you would stop trying to insert AIPAC into every situation you see fit.... Just a pity you didnt see fit to commemorate the role played by Real Australians in the Battle of Britain for instance.

Quote:
The SBAs will stay as long as we allow them to stay.

very grandiose statement from thousands of miles away but meaningless.
Wasnt Makarios rescued by a British Helicopter sent from one of the SBA's during the coup.?

[Paphitis]

I dont think Christofias is doing something new making a statement regarding the Greek incursion into Cyprus, just repeating what Makarios said previously some years before when he made a speech and called it an Invasion..
Theres no mistake about who he was talking about.

no comments from those that express themselves so eloquently?

Quote from pap..
"How much do you think Israel and AIPAC might be behind this push?"
Answer = second word is All!

I wish you would stop trying to insert AIPAC into every situation you see fit.... Just a pity you didnt see fit to commemorate the role played by Real Australians in the Battle of Britain for instance.

Quote:
The SBAs will stay as long as we allow them to stay.

very grandiose statement from thousands of miles away but meaningless.
Wasnt Makarios rescued by a British Helicopter sent from one of the SBA's during the coup.?

How very fitting! You claim that Britain saved Makarios, when in actual fact, it was his supporters and his personal guard that saved him by flying him to the SBAs. What could the UK do? Refuse him entry. Also very rich considering the fact that it is Britain itself that considered the Greek Junta a close ally.

Very good to see that you acknowledge that it is israel through its very own AIPAC that played some role in causing at least a minor shift in US policy. You better get use to these shifts, because they will become more and more common over the next few years, because Cyprus, Israel and Greece (and Egypt) are forced out of necessity to get along and form very strong strategic alliances because there is literally Trillions of Euros riding on this and I think you will also find that US Oil companies are right on this gravy train extravaganza, and later on many more Oil and Gas companies will jump on board.

You see Boofhead, Cyprus will develop strategic alliances with those within our region who will benefit us financially and politically, and mark my words when I once again repeat that Israel WILL become our most important regional partner and this will bear many fruits in US Foreign Policy on Cyprus.

And since you saw it fit to mention Australia, well I would like to inform you that relations between Australia and Turkey are already cooling! You can bet your bottom dollar, that Israeli lobby groups will ensure that this escalates if necessary.

And further to this, a high ranking IDF Military attache is about to visit Athens to plan some Military Exercises between the 2 nations and even agree on a new Strategic dogma and a joint Pilot training program between the HAF and IAF!

I rest my case!

[BOF]

oh no wrong again thats not the way history records it...And if you read history Makarios thanked the British for saving him! must be a different history book you are reading son.
(you really think any old chopper would be allowed to just fly into an SBA? while the whole place is in uproar around them???)

From Makarios speech to the UN security council in 1974..

"1 found it advisable to leave Cyprus rather than into the hands of the Greek junta. I am grateful to the British Government which made available helicopter to pick me up from Paphos, transfer me to the British base and from there by plane to Malta and London. I am also grateful to Special Representative of the secretary-general and to the Commander of the Peace-Keeping Force in Cyprus for the interest which they shown for my safety. My presence in this room of the Security Council was made possible thanks to the help given to me by the British Government and the representatives of the secretary-general, Waldheim, who's keen concern for me and for the critical situation which developed in Cyprus moves every fibre of my heart. I do not know as yet all the details of the Cyprus crisis caused the Greek military regime. I am afraid that the number of casualties Large and that the material destruction is heavy. what is, however , our primary concern at present is the ending of the tragedy. When 1 reached London. I was informed of the content of`the speech of the representative Of Greek junta to the United Nations. I was surprised at the way they are trying To deceive world public opinion. With out a blush, the Greek junta is making efforts to simplify the situation,claiming that it is not involved in the armed attack and that developments of the last few days are an internal matter of the Greek Cypriots. 1 do not believe that there are people who accept the allegations the Greek military regime. The coup did not come about under circumstances as to be considered an internal matter of the Greek Cypriots It is clearly an Invasion from outside. in flagrant violation of the Independence and sovereignty of the Republic of Cyprus. The so called coup was the work of the Greek officers staffing and commanding National Guard. I must also underline the fact that the Greek contingent composed of 950 officers and men stationed in Cyprus by virtue of the Treaty of Alliance which played a prominent role in this aggressive affair against Cyprus . "
So your theory about Britian and also the Helicopter are pure large Colon secretions.
Or are you going to call the old boy a liar?

Re AIPAC, when i wrote "All" did you want me to spell the first word for you?

Now AIPAC and Nuttyahoo are not the flavour of the month right now seeing as how nutty shit on the floor and stamped in it by walking out on the proposed peace process and the continuation of building illegal settlements in Palestine (sound familiar?). his actions have focussed congress onto the position of AIPAC and people are asking questions....

If your dream of a great alliance is to become fact you better be careful - Israel and Russia dont enjoy each others company - you just might be the loser.
No idea why you mention tukeys relationship with Oz - do you see any mention of Turkey in my previous post????
It is as i thought...you dont let facts get in the way of your opinions..

[Paphitis]

oh no wrong again thats not the way history records it...And if you read history Makarios thanked the British for saving him! must be a different history book you are reading son.
(you really think any old chopper would be allowed to just fly into an SBA? while the whole place is in uproar around them???)

From Makarios speech to the UN security council in 1974..

"1 found it advisable to leave Cyprus rather than into the hands of the Greek junta. I am grateful to the British Government which made available helicopter to pick me up from Paphos, transfer me to the British base and from there by plane to Malta and London. I am also grateful to Special Representative of the secretary-general and to the Commander of the Peace-Keeping Force in Cyprus for the interest which they shown for my safety. My presence in this room of the Security Council was made possible thanks to the help given to me by the British Government and the representatives of the secretary-general, Waldheim, who's keen concern for me and for the critical situation which developed in Cyprus moves every fibre of my heart. I do not know as yet all the details of the Cyprus crisis caused the Greek military regime. I am afraid that the number of casualties Large and that the material destruction is heavy. what is, however , our primary concern at present is the ending of the tragedy. When 1 reached London. I was informed of the content of`the speech of the representative Of Greek junta to the United Nations. I was surprised at the way they are trying To deceive world public opinion. With out a blush, the Greek junta is making efforts to simplify the situation,claiming that it is not involved in the armed attack and that developments of the last few days are an internal matter of the Greek Cypriots. 1 do not believe that there are people who accept the allegations the Greek military regime. The coup did not come about under circumstances as to be considered an internal matter of the Greek Cypriots It is clearly an Invasion from outside. in flagrant violation of the Independence and sovereignty of the Republic of Cyprus. The so called coup was the work of the Greek officers staffing and commanding National Guard. I must also underline the fact that the Greek contingent composed of 950 officers and men stationed in Cyprus by virtue of the Treaty of Alliance which played a prominent role in this aggressive affair against Cyprus . "
So your theory about Britian and also the Helicopter are pure large Colon secretions.
Or are you going to call the old boy a liar?

Re AIPAC, when i wrote "All" did you want me to spell the first word for you?

Now AIPAC and Nuttyahoo are not the flavour of the month right now seeing as how nutty shit on the floor and stamped in it by walking out on the proposed peace process and the continuation of building illegal settlements in Palestine (sound familiar?). his actions have focussed congress onto the position of AIPAC and people are asking questions....

If your dream of a great alliance is to become fact you better be careful - Israel and Russia dont enjoy each others company - you just might be the loser.
No idea why you mention tukeys relationship with Oz - do you see any mention of Turkey in my previous post????
It is as i thought...you dont let facts get in the way of your opinions..

Israel and Russia are doing just fine.

http://rt.com/Top_News/2010-09-06/israe ... yukov.html

Sorry mate, but you don't have a leg to stand on!

We will be allies to both those countries thanks! There are no reasons why this can't be the case!

The Palestinians are irrelevant to our Bilateral Relations. Furthermore, Cyprus can influence Israel, just like the US is trying to do, to stop the new settlements and push for a 2 State Solution, if we have strong Bilateral, Economic, Cultural, and Military bonds.

[Get Real!]

From Makarios speech to the UN security council in 1974..

Hey British corrupt and incompetent arsehole,

Always post your LINKS so that others know that you’re quoting from junk “TRNC” sites!