Cyprus-Forum.com

[repulsewarrior]

...sadly, it shows where we are in the talks, when the most the President of Cyprus can offer is basic Principals of Human Rights as what occupies his efforts to defend Cypriot Unity. Dismal indeed that his partner is an adversary to socialism; not representing Individuals and Persons, representing "Greeks" and "Turks",

[Bananiot]

Thanks Gasman

[Tony-4497]

Christofias has put himself in an impossible position, due to gross errors in judgement, hence his current erratic behaviour.

A rational approach would have been to first collect evidence, identify and analyse the minimum requirements a solution needs to fulfil in order to secure a Yes at a GC referendum (through polls, focus groups etc), and subsequently negotiate with these as his "red lines" (using a carrott & "EU stick" approach to achieve it).

Instead, he arrogantly assumed (and probably still does) that the people would follow the great leader in any stupid concession he makes - stupid concessions are of course the easy way to achieve "progress" in negotiations, however, he is now starting to realise that even if Turkey accepts Christofias's own plan (incl rotational presidency, forfeiting property rights etc) then there is no chance in hell that this will pass a GC referendum (other than perhaps if a territory split of 80:20 is achieved, which is near-impossible).

[bubblechris]

Tony4497 you are so wrong and give the impression you have never negotiated with a transigent party. It is not what we want that counts it's what they are prepared to give that will decide whether there is a solution or not. We are not in a strong position, we are disunited, unsupported by the major powers and not able to make demands.

I applaud Pr Christofias for his patience and his attempts to sole an unsolvable dilemma(sp?). If he did what you suggest we would not have got to the point where most people see we are the innocents here and should be supported. I believe general opinion throughout the world supports us but who is going to pressurethe Turkish side to give us a fair and realistic outcome, who?

[Tony-4497]

Tony4497 you are so wrong and give the impression you have never negotiated with a transigent party. It is not what we want that counts it's what they are prepared to give that will decide whether there is a solution or not. We are not in a strong position, we are disunited, unsupported by the major powers and not able to make demands.

.. and you're clearly full of bubbles.. Your rationale, which is also Christofias's rationale, leads straight to "taking whatever they are willing to give us" hence putting to referendum a plan very similar to the Annan plan (in fact, it cannot be anything other than this, in light of our OWN side's proposals).

Problem is, there is no chance in hell such a plan will pass referendum (unless you are considering vote rigging.. but then there will be a huge gap from polls, which may prove problematic..)..

What you fail to see is that the very bad status quo (including the maintainance of the veto right over Turkey's EU path) is deemed by the vast majority of GCs as far better than the deal that Christofias wants to agree..

[bubblechris]

Tony please lets kep it civil. I agree the Annan plan is a nono. There are other possibilities, for example as I believe there is not a solution 100% acceptable to all then we must look at the possible alternatives. My preference has always been that we take the population census as at 1974 give the TC minority enough land in the North West ie Morphou Kyrenia etc and allow them to run the region as they wish under a joint presidency for the whole island. Not a perfect solution but how could they argue to the rest of the world that we are being difficult. The settlers would be their problem, land would be swopped on both sides and we would be able to move forward living on the same island as Cypriots.

If you disagree all well and good I know many would not accept my proposal but is there really any other alternative?

[B25]

Tony please lets kep it civil. I agree the Annan plan is a nono. There are other possibilities, for example as I believe there is not a solution 100% acceptable to all then we must look at the possible alternatives. My preference has always been that we take the population census as at 1974 give the TC minority enough land in the North West ie Morphou Kyrenia etc and allow them to run the region as they wish under a joint presidency for the whole island. Not a perfect solution but how could they argue to the rest of the world that we are being difficult. The settlers would be their problem, land would be swopped on both sides and we would be able to move forward living on the same island as Cypriots.

If you disagree all well and good I know many would not accept my proposal but is there really any other alternative?

Your proposal is the AP II. A pile of crap. We are better off as we are than to agree such a suicide deal.

Hade re pou tziame.

[Tony-4497]

Tony please lets kep it civil. I agree the Annan plan is a nono. There are other possibilities, for example as I believe there is not a solution 100% acceptable to all then we must look at the possible alternatives. My preference has always been that we take the population census as at 1974 give the TC minority enough land in the North West ie Morphou Kyrenia etc and allow them to run the region as they wish under a joint presidency for the whole island. Not a perfect solution but how could they argue to the rest of the world that we are being difficult. The settlers would be their problem, land would be swopped on both sides and we would be able to move forward living on the same island as Cypriots.

If you disagree all well and good I know many would not accept my proposal but is there really any other alternative?

I would consider such a proposal provided that the part to effectively sacrifice was equal to the land owned by TCs i.e. on condition that the land/ property problem was resolved ONLY by restitution or exchange of equivalent/ identical properties and NOT so called "compensation" (which is defined as gifting of our land to TCs, as neither they nor Turkey will ever pay a penny for it).

Why do you think Turks reject such a proposal outright?