Cyprus-Forum.com

[georgios100]

Following the 36 year negotiations up to the present day, I'm afraid, the progress made in solving the Cyprob is ZERO. Judging the present talks from any angle, are bound to fail (unless a miracle happens...)

Who is to blame?

It may sound odd but I blame all sides (GC leadership, TC leadership, Turkey, Greece, Britain, UN and other "hidden" factors to the equation).

The problem is a continuing lack of vision from all sides, especially from the leadership of both Cypriot communities. It is obvious, a solution would benefit both communities a great deal. Post the solution there can be only degrees of "winning", boosting the economy & image of the island. Cyprus can become the jewel of the Mediterranean, the best destination for tourists or a great place to retire. Similar to what the State of Florida is now compared to the rest of the USA. Not to mention the flood of foreign investments which now are held back due to unforeseen security issues and unstable political status.

I just don't see why this lack of vision is still around with no end in sight. I tend to believe that all the politicians involved (both sides) can't realize the magnitude of a pending solution.

This "unfinished business" is costing just too much money & aggravation just because the talks participants are really unfit or unwilling to reach a settlement.

There must be another way to resolve this but which one?

Are we to start betting on, which ongoing problem will outlast the other(Cyprob or Israel/Palestine)? A sad situation, indeed.

[Get Real!]

Following the 36 year negotiations up to the present day, I'm afraid, the progress made in solving the Cyprob is ZERO. Judging the present talks from any angle, are bound to fail (unless a miracle happens...)

Who is to blame?

International law has been utterly corrupted by the United States with the support of the UK and Israel. The international community in general has also been an accessory to this global downfall by tolerating decades of Western corruption and playing along with America’s irresponsible games at humanity’s loss.

Overall, America has set humanity and civilization back by two millenniums to the days of the jungle and the caveman!

Unless each and every one of us emphatically condemn this ugly trend and insist that international law prevails and that violators be brought to justice, we will NEVER see the light of day in Cyprus, East Timor, the Western Sahara, Palestine, and in the many other places around the world where decades-old problems exist.

[B25]

here here!

[Oracle]

Hear, hear!

[georgios100]

Following the 36 year negotiations up to the present day, I'm afraid, the progress made in solving the Cyprob is ZERO. Judging the present talks from any angle, are bound to fail (unless a miracle happens...)

Who is to blame?

International law has been utterly corrupted by the United States with the support of the UK and Israel. The international community in general has also been an accessory to this global downfall by tolerating decades of Western corruption and playing along with America’s irresponsible games at humanity’s loss.

Overall, America has set humanity and civilization back by two millenniums to the days of the jungle and the caveman!

Unless each and every one of us emphatically condemn this ugly trend and insist that international law prevails and that violators be brought to justice, we will NEVER see the light of day in Cyprus, East Timor, the Western Sahara, Palestine, and in the many other places around the world where decades-old problems exist.

The UN is powerless to enforce it's own resolutions. The only ones enforced are the ones that "suit" USA, UK & Israel...

The UN is a failure as an organization, has no meaning, why does it even exist? What for? Lately, it can not even handle the natural disasters, can not rally the wealthy nations to contribute... totally useless!

No wonder, Turkey ignored all resolutions issued so far and possible more coming, related to the Cyprob.

Perhaps Cyprus should walk out of the UN assembly in protest!

The "new World Order" was implemented by the USA c/w it's allies and "run the policing" at will. As for the UN... dumped on the sidelines as a mere observer and, of course, irrelevant.

[wyoming cowboy]

Its all about self interest, Turkey was ordered to invade for geopolitical reasons international law has nothing to do with anything when the West has the leverage, wanting to stay nonaligned during the cold war and rubbing shoulders with Mao, Castro, and Kruschev was not too bright....we see the results. Tiny Cyprus does not have the luxury to do anything.....other then obey, unfortunately......Power has dictated world politics ever since the dawn of civilization....

[Kikapu]

Following the 36 year negotiations up to the present day, I'm afraid, the progress made in solving the Cyprob is ZERO. Judging the present talks from any angle, are bound to fail (unless a miracle happens...)

Who is to blame?

It may sound odd but I blame all sides (GC leadership, TC leadership, Turkey, Greece, Britain, UN and other "hidden" factors to the equation).

The problem is a continuing lack of vision from all sides, especially from the leadership of both Cypriot communities. It is obvious, a solution would benefit both communities a great deal. Post the solution there can be only degrees of "winning", boosting the economy & image of the island. Cyprus can become the jewel of the Mediterranean, the best destination for tourists or a great place to retire. Similar to what the State of Florida is now compared to the rest of the USA. Not to mention the flood of foreign investments which now are held back due to unforeseen security issues and unstable political status.

I just don't see why this lack of vision is still around with no end in sight. I tend to believe that all the politicians involved (both sides) can't realize the magnitude of a pending solution.

This "unfinished business" is costing just too much money & aggravation just because the talks participants are really unfit or unwilling to reach a settlement.

There must be another way to resolve this but which one?

Are we to start betting on, which ongoing problem will outlast the other(Cyprob or Israel/Palestine)? A sad situation, indeed.

I would like to differ with your view that there is no vision in Cyprus and by those in power.

The vision for those in the north and Turkey is to keep the northern part of Cyprus for themselves for the time being, be in the EU and then declare the north a sovereign state and remain as a EU member. Then make as many Turks from Turkey as EU citizens, which then use these new EU citizens (Turks) to move to the south to overrun the GCs with a Turkish majority. With the already Turkish majority in the EU member sovereign north, the north and south will then declare union with each other in a referendum to form the new RoC with the Turks being the overwhelming majority. After that has been accomplished, is to then have the new RoC form a union (enosis) with Turkey in order to bring Turkey into the EU. It's that simple. The Annan plan was the perfect vehicle to achieve that vision, and even though the AP is dead, the vision is not.!

[georgios100]

Following the 36 year negotiations up to the present day, I'm afraid, the progress made in solving the Cyprob is ZERO. Judging the present talks from any angle, are bound to fail (unless a miracle happens...)

Who is to blame?

It may sound odd but I blame all sides (GC leadership, TC leadership, Turkey, Greece, Britain, UN and other "hidden" factors to the equation).

The problem is a continuing lack of vision from all sides, especially from the leadership of both Cypriot communities. It is obvious, a solution would benefit both communities a great deal. Post the solution there can be only degrees of "winning", boosting the economy & image of the island. Cyprus can become the jewel of the Mediterranean, the best destination for tourists or a great place to retire. Similar to what the State of Florida is now compared to the rest of the USA. Not to mention the flood of foreign investments which now are held back due to unforeseen security issues and unstable political status.

I just don't see why this lack of vision is still around with no end in sight. I tend to believe that all the politicians involved (both sides) can't realize the magnitude of a pending solution.

This "unfinished business" is costing just too much money & aggravation just because the talks participants are really unfit or unwilling to reach a settlement.

There must be another way to resolve this but which one?

Are we to start betting on, which ongoing problem will outlast the other(Cyprob or Israel/Palestine)? A sad situation, indeed.

I would like to differ with your view that there is no vision in Cyprus and by those in power.

The vision for those in the north and Turkey is to keep the northern part of Cyprus for themselves for the time being, be in the EU and then declare the north a sovereign state and remain as a EU member. Then make as many Turks from Turkey as EU citizens, which then use these new EU citizens (Turks) to move to the south to overrun the GCs with a Turkish majority. With the already Turkish majority in the EU member sovereign north, the north and south will then declare union with each other in a referendum to form the new RoC with the Turks being the overwhelming majority. After that has been accomplished, is to then have the new RoC form a union (enosis) with Turkey in order to bring Turkey into the EU. It's that simple. The Annan plan was the perfect vehicle to achieve that vision, and even though the AP is dead, the vision is not.!

You got a point there Kikapu, I give you that.

So the vision is not about a solution but a long term demographic change which we see coming every day. Turkey is out smarting all of us and the EU.

The EU wants Turkey in for a couple of reasons. One, Turkey is a large consumer population. Two, Turkey will serve as the military "defense" of Europe at the eastern flank.

So Turkey is turning the door handle which offers entry into the EU community. Will Cyprus be an obstacle? Likely not, judging from the above two reasons. The Europeans will let Turkey in, no matter what.

Simply put, Turkey is far more important than Cyprus to the EU. The argument of Cyprus denying entry to Turkey might be overcome. In this case, we are F***d again.

And something else...

President Christofias called on Obama to act while attending some ex-pat dinner party. What a pussy!

Christofias should have asked Obama to intervene while addressing the UN international assembly, not at some wedding hall of NY.

[Kikapu]

Following the 36 year negotiations up to the present day, I'm afraid, the progress made in solving the Cyprob is ZERO. Judging the present talks from any angle, are bound to fail (unless a miracle happens...)

Who is to blame?

It may sound odd but I blame all sides (GC leadership, TC leadership, Turkey, Greece, Britain, UN and other "hidden" factors to the equation).

The problem is a continuing lack of vision from all sides, especially from the leadership of both Cypriot communities. It is obvious, a solution would benefit both communities a great deal. Post the solution there can be only degrees of "winning", boosting the economy & image of the island. Cyprus can become the jewel of the Mediterranean, the best destination for tourists or a great place to retire. Similar to what the State of Florida is now compared to the rest of the USA. Not to mention the flood of foreign investments which now are held back due to unforeseen security issues and unstable political status.

I just don't see why this lack of vision is still around with no end in sight. I tend to believe that all the politicians involved (both sides) can't realize the magnitude of a pending solution.

This "unfinished business" is costing just too much money & aggravation just because the talks participants are really unfit or unwilling to reach a settlement.

There must be another way to resolve this but which one?

Are we to start betting on, which ongoing problem will outlast the other(Cyprob or Israel/Palestine)? A sad situation, indeed.

I would like to differ with your view that there is no vision in Cyprus and by those in power.

The vision for those in the north and Turkey is to keep the northern part of Cyprus for themselves for the time being, be in the EU and then declare the north a sovereign state and remain as a EU member. Then make as many Turks from Turkey as EU citizens, which then use these new EU citizens (Turks) to move to the south to overrun the GCs with a Turkish majority. With the already Turkish majority in the EU member sovereign north, the north and south will then declare union with each other in a referendum to form the new RoC with the Turks being the overwhelming majority. After that has been accomplished, is to then have the new RoC form a union (enosis) with Turkey in order to bring Turkey into the EU. It's that simple. The Annan plan was the perfect vehicle to achieve that vision, and even though the AP is dead, the vision is not.!

You got a point there Kikapu, I give you that.

So the vision is not about a solution but a long term demographic change which we see coming every day. Turkey is out smarting all of us and the EU.

The EU wants Turkey in for a couple of reasons. One, Turkey is a large consumer population. Two, Turkey will serve as the military "defense" of Europe at the eastern flank.

So Turkey is turning the door handle which offers entry into the EU community. Will Cyprus be an obstacle? Likely not, judging from the above two reasons. The Europeans will let Turkey in, no matter what.

Simply put, Turkey is far more important than Cyprus to the EU. The argument of Cyprus denying entry to Turkey might be overcome. In this case, we are F***d again.

And something else...

President Christofias called on Obama to act while attending some ex-pat dinner party. What a pussy!

Christofias should have asked Obama to intervene while addressing the UN international assembly, not at some wedding hall of NY.

To reach a solution in the 21st century in the western world societies is not too difficult. The only ingredients you would need are True Democracy, Human Rights, International laws and in Cyprus's situation, the EU principles. If the people of Cyprus believed in these principles, then a solution is achievable. The problem is, the above principles is not what some want in Cyprus and even less by Turkey for Cypriots. Had Cyprus had all those principles, there would be no need for the Turkish Army to be in Cyprus.

I don't think Turkey is out smarting anyone in the EU. Turkey has left it way too late to outsmart anyone. If Turkey was smart, they would have done all they could to prevent the RoC from joining the EU, a little country which they do not even recognise, as well as occupying almost half of it. But then they saw an opportunity how the RoC being in the EU would actually benefit them, therefore, Turkey and few other countries that do want Turkey in the EU, they put all their "EU vision eggs" in the Annan Plan basket to make their vision that I talked about earlier to come true, but they all got outfoxed by then Tassos Papadopoulos. Now Turkey and the other countries that does want Turkey in the EU got themselves truly shafted since 2004, which they are now desperately trying to resurrect any plan that has the same conditions as the AP had. As long as the GCs say "OXI" to any plan that does not have True Democracy, Human Rights, International Laws and the EU Principles, there isn't anything Turkey or any of her friends in the EU can do about making their visions I talked about to come true, or even have any chance of becoming a EU member directly. Turkey had a very small chance of becoming a EU member before 2004, even if she were to meet all her EU chapter demands, but since 2004, she has NO chance at all as long as Cyprus remains divided and apartheid system of settlement sought, based on violations of Democracy, Human Rights and International Law. In the mean time, more and more other states are becoming EU member states which will not want Turkey in the EU, such as Serbia for example. The west does not want half of Cyprus to become part of Turkey either, despite the on going division in Cyprus. In time, Turkey will have no choice but to turn over occupied part of Cyprus back to Cypriot citizens. That's the price she needs to pay for her having any chance in becoming an EU member, as the Turkey we know today, or one part of the Turkey that we used to know.!

The EU will not let Turkey in the EU just because Turkey is a large market of 70 million. "Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free". The EU is already selling plenty to Turkey. The EU are using the cheap Turkish workforce to run their companies to manufacture their goods in Turkey and sell them at home for a large profit. The Turkish economy is not as good as some people would like us to believe and the GDP per capita in Turkey is still around $6,000 US Dollars. The Turkish cheap labour force which benefits the EU domestically, balances out the low per capita income for the Turks for the EU not being able to sell too many high priced items to them. Economically, Turkey's population is about 500% less well off than those in the rest of the EU on average. I don't think the EU has the desires or the will to bring Turkey into the EU and bring it's people to the same parity economically to the rest of the EU citizens. The only way this can happen is, if Turkey were ever to break up to 2 or more parts, then the EU will gladly take in the most western part of Turkey into the EU and have the new EU borders with Asia run north to south from the Black Sea to the Mediterranean, somewhere just east of Ankara. This will then become the new West-East border and all those west minded Turks will make sure the Islamist will not cross the new EU border. The Turkish military at that point would be very useful to the EU and NATO under a civilian rule. The remaining eastern part of Turkey will then be up for grabs between the Islamist Turks, the Kurds, the Armenians, and perhaps, the Syrians also.!

[georgios100]

Nice posting Kikapu!

You have some interesting ideas which I like but obviously the Turks don't even wanna hear about it.

Getting half of Turkey into the EU is very interesting but unlikely while leaving the rest of it out for the wolves of the region...

Cyprus to veto alone against Turkey's accession will not cut it. If more countries , as you mentioned, join in vetoing, then we might have a case forcing the Turks to get the hell out of Cyprus.

There are other countries joining the EU with low GDP... Europe wants them all in to achieve geographical advantage with no gaps on land, mainly for strategic reasons.

Nevertheless, EU needs Turkey's arsenal against future invaders, specifically the Chinese, looking for resources and more land for their people due to overpopulation.

Incidentally, do you know the Chinese struck a deal with all the Sahara bordering countries and bought the mining rights of this desert? Might sound odd but the Chinese always think 50-75 years ahead. China is the next superpower on this planet.

Having said that, we should be looking at some sort of alliance with China since the Americans/Brits screwed us over & over. I don't expect any kind of military assistance from the EU. These guys are pussies when it comes to fighting for one of their members.