Cyprus-Forum.com

[samarkeolog]

... according to Dionysiou (a history teacher himself)

Teachers are so uppity!

history needs to be re written

Seriously, do they not have much in the way of schooling to do these days?

I'm sure they do have a lot to do, but if the schooling they are doing is wrong, it must be rewritten before they can continue.

We did not continue to teach that the sun revolves around the earth because it required extra work to correct the lessons. We cannot continue to teach falsehoods about the history of Cyprus because it requires extra work to correct the lessons.

Teaching false histories is intellectually and morally wrong; and it enables and promotes division and conflict.

[Oracle]

... according to Dionysiou (a history teacher himself)

Teachers are so uppity!

history needs to be re written

Seriously, do they not have much in the way of schooling to do these days?

I'm sure they do have a lot to do, but if the schooling they are doing is wrong, it must be rewritten before they can continue.

We did not continue to teach that the sun revolves around the earth because it required extra work to correct the lessons. We cannot continue to teach falsehoods about the history of Cyprus because it requires extra work to correct the lessons.

Teaching false histories is intellectually and morally wrong; and it enables and promotes division and conflict.

I'm sure you would agree that the course of history writing is not subject to mere opinion but rigorous collection by many bodies of hard facts and evidence. One sided support for one source hardly constitutes new evidence.

[samarkeolog]

... according to Dionysiou (a history teacher himself)

Teachers are so uppity!

history needs to be re written

Seriously, do they not have much in the way of schooling to do these days?

I'm sure they do have a lot to do, but if the schooling they are doing is wrong, it must be rewritten before they can continue.

We did not continue to teach that the sun revolves around the earth because it required extra work to correct the lessons. We cannot continue to teach falsehoods about the history of Cyprus because it requires extra work to correct the lessons.

Teaching false histories is intellectually and morally wrong; and it enables and promotes division and conflict.

I'm sure you would agree that the course of history writing is not subject to mere opinion but rigorous collection by many bodies of hard facts and evidence. One sided support for one source hardly constitutes new evidence.

According to Bananiot, Dionysiou provided evidence, and only said that "not only Turkey" was responsible... Is that difficult to accept?

[Piratis]

Dionysiou in POLITIS today writes about this issue. He presses home that some people within the GC community are only interested to show that only Turkey behaved as a provocateur and never allowed Cyprus to exist as an independent state. However, our history needs to be re written according to Dionysiou (a history teacher himself) because much of the truth is hidden, because, regarding this issue, not only Turkey but equally as much, we undermined the RoC. He lists the following points:

1. Makarios himself called the London-Zurich agreements a stepping stone towards the union of Cyprus with Greece.
2. In 1963 we wanted to change 13 points of the Constitution in favour of the GC's.
3. In 1964, Greek army officer who later led the coup in Greece, secretly and illegally brought arms to Cyprus in order to arm paramilitarists according to Akritas plan.
4. In the next years we stubbornly rejected the calls of moderate TC's to return to the government (see Klerides interview tomorrow at CyBC).
On November 15 1967 at Kophinou, a GC policeman, acting on orders of Makarios's government, set up a machine gun position and started firing at passing GC cars on their way to Limassol or Nicosia. The TC's got the blame for the firing and Grivas went in ...

These truths have been kept out of bounds from the GC's and thus, since the TC's and Turkey are always the bad guys, we can never trust them that they will honour their signature if we reach a solution. Thus, it is better if we live separately and wait for the right moment to throw them to the sea, when the balance of power changes, suckers!

It was never a secret that the vast majority of the Cypriot people wanted union with the rest of Greece and this was our right.

The pseudo independence that we were blackmailed to accept was not what we wanted and it only served the interests of the foreign imperialists that created it, and their collaborators in Cyprus (TCs) who helped the imperialists to oppress the Cypriot revolution and impose their terms on the Cypriot people.

The whole conflict between GCs and TCs was planned by the UK and Turkey, and had as an aim to prevent Cypriots from achieving their freedom as it happened with most other Greek islands, so that these two imperialists will maintain troops and control over our island.

[Oracle]

... according to Dionysiou (a history teacher himself)

Teachers are so uppity!

history needs to be re written

Seriously, do they not have much in the way of schooling to do these days?

I'm sure they do have a lot to do, but if the schooling they are doing is wrong, it must be rewritten before they can continue.

We did not continue to teach that the sun revolves around the earth because it required extra work to correct the lessons. We cannot continue to teach falsehoods about the history of Cyprus because it requires extra work to correct the lessons.

Teaching false histories is intellectually and morally wrong; and it enables and promotes division and conflict.

I'm sure you would agree that the course of history writing is not subject to mere opinion but rigorous collection by many bodies of hard facts and evidence. One sided support for one source hardly constitutes new evidence.

According to Bananiot, Dionysiou provided evidence, and only said that "not only Turkey" was responsible... Is that difficult to accept?

Yes, because all the pragmatic evidence and relativist analysis identifies Turkey as the only enemy occupant of Cyprus; which is why all international bodies call for its immediate withdrawal. Is that hard to accept?

[samarkeolog]

... according to Dionysiou (a history teacher himself)

Teachers are so uppity!

history needs to be re written

Seriously, do they not have much in the way of schooling to do these days?

I'm sure they do have a lot to do, but if the schooling they are doing is wrong, it must be rewritten before they can continue.

We did not continue to teach that the sun revolves around the earth because it required extra work to correct the lessons. We cannot continue to teach falsehoods about the history of Cyprus because it requires extra work to correct the lessons.

Teaching false histories is intellectually and morally wrong; and it enables and promotes division and conflict.

I'm sure you would agree that the course of history writing is not subject to mere opinion but rigorous collection by many bodies of hard facts and evidence. One sided support for one source hardly constitutes new evidence.

According to Bananiot, Dionysiou provided evidence, and only said that "not only Turkey" was responsible... Is that difficult to accept?

Yes, because all the pragmatic evidence and relativist analysis identifies Turkey as the only enemy occupant of Cyprus; which is why all international bodies call for its immediate withdrawal. Is that hard to accept?

I have never denied that the Turkish army in northern Cyprus is an occupying army. I have explicitly stated that the Turkish army in northern Cyprus is an occupying army...

But what does that have to do with Dionysiou's statements?

Just because the Turkish army in northern Cyprus is an occupying army, it does not mean that the Greek Cypriot side is not responsible for any problem ever.

Already, I am bored again. I say that parts of the Greek Cypriot side [are] partly responsible for the some of the Cyprus Problem; and you say the Turkish forces are occupying powers.

They are two separate things; they are independent of each other. It's like me saying "some apples are red"; and you saying "pineapples are yellow".

[Edited to hide my poor grammar.]

[Bananiot]

You are wasting your time my friend. Oracle and Piratis are just hard core nationalists. Do not expect them to behave any different.

[Piratis]

I say that parts of the Greek Cypriot side [are] partly responsible for the some of the Cyprus Problem

Who are responsible for the Cyprus Problem are the foreign imperialists who occupy our lands and do not allow the Cypriot people to freely and democratically decide for their own island.

In what way are Greek Cypriots partly responsible for the creation of the problem? The Cyprus Problem existed for centuries and the problem was exactly the foreign occupation of our island. We never left our island to invade anybody else.

In the 50s, the UK and Turkey instead of allowing this problem to end by giving to the Cypriot people their freedom and self-determination (like it happened with say Rhodes a few years earlier), they instead armed and incited the TC minority, turning them against the majority of the population with the aim to create an internal conflict that would allow these foreign imperialists to maintain troops and control over parts of our island.

Were the GCs supposed not to react to the attacks by the TCs that started from 1958? And were the GCs supposed to just sit there and accept the undemocratic racist and unfair parameters of the pseudo independence that the foreign imperialists forced on us in order to serve their own interests on the expense of our own?

[Oracle]

... according to Dionysiou (a history teacher himself)

Teachers are so uppity!

history needs to be re written

Seriously, do they not have much in the way of schooling to do these days?

I'm sure they do have a lot to do, but if the schooling they are doing is wrong, it must be rewritten before they can continue.

We did not continue to teach that the sun revolves around the earth because it required extra work to correct the lessons. We cannot continue to teach falsehoods about the history of Cyprus because it requires extra work to correct the lessons.

Teaching false histories is intellectually and morally wrong; and it enables and promotes division and conflict.

I'm sure you would agree that the course of history writing is not subject to mere opinion but rigorous collection by many bodies of hard facts and evidence. One sided support for one source hardly constitutes new evidence.

According to Bananiot, Dionysiou provided evidence, and only said that "not only Turkey" was responsible... Is that difficult to accept?

Yes, because all the pragmatic evidence and relativist analysis identifies Turkey as the only enemy occupant of Cyprus; which is why all international bodies call for its immediate withdrawal. Is that hard to accept?

I have never denied that the Turkish army in northern Cyprus is an occupying army. I have explicitly stated that the Turkish army in northern Cyprus is an occupying army...

But what does that have to do with Dionysiou's statements?

Just because the Turkish army in northern Cyprus is an occupying army, it does not mean that the Greek Cypriot side is not responsible for any problem ever.

Already, I am bored again. I say that parts of the Greek Cypriot side [are] partly responsible for the some of the Cyprus Problem; and you say the Turkish forces are occupying powers.

They are two separate things; they are independent of each other. It's like me saying "some apples are red"; and you saying "pineapples are yellow".

[Edited to hide my poor grammar.]

I think you need to apply your apples and pineapples to your own thinking. If we all agree the only occupying force in Cyprus is Turkey, and we all agree with International calls for an immediate withdrawal; then what else is there to consider? That once upon a time people lived and people died?

There are many irrelevancies; there is only one clear solution.

Causations? You might as well debate Creation!

Because, the problem is one and only. The occupying Turkish army. If you wish to extend it to the realms of humanity, then yes, there are many factors which competed for this present role, which is at the moment played solely by Turkey!

[samarkeolog]

... according to Dionysiou (a history teacher himself)

Teachers are so uppity!

history needs to be re written

Seriously, do they not have much in the way of schooling to do these days?

I'm sure they do have a lot to do, but if the schooling they are doing is wrong, it must be rewritten before they can continue.

We did not continue to teach that the sun revolves around the earth because it required extra work to correct the lessons. We cannot continue to teach falsehoods about the history of Cyprus because it requires extra work to correct the lessons.

Teaching false histories is intellectually and morally wrong; and it enables and promotes division and conflict.

I'm sure you would agree that the course of history writing is not subject to mere opinion but rigorous collection by many bodies of hard facts and evidence. One sided support for one source hardly constitutes new evidence.

According to Bananiot, Dionysiou provided evidence, and only said that "not only Turkey" was responsible... Is that difficult to accept?

Yes, because all the pragmatic evidence and relativist analysis identifies Turkey as the only enemy occupant of Cyprus; which is why all international bodies call for its immediate withdrawal. Is that hard to accept?

I have never denied that the Turkish army in northern Cyprus is an occupying army. I have explicitly stated that the Turkish army in northern Cyprus is an occupying army...

But what does that have to do with Dionysiou's statements?

Just because the Turkish army in northern Cyprus is an occupying army, it does not mean that the Greek Cypriot side is not responsible for any problem ever.

Already, I am bored again. I say that parts of the Greek Cypriot side [are] partly responsible for the some of the Cyprus Problem; and you say the Turkish forces are occupying powers.

They are two separate things; they are independent of each other. It's like me saying "some apples are red"; and you saying "pineapples are yellow".

[Edited to hide my poor grammar.]

I think you need to apply your apples and pineapples to your own thinking. If we all agree the only occupying force in Cyprus is Turkey, and we all agree with International calls for an immediate withdrawal; then what else is there to consider? That once upon a time people lived and people died?

There are many irrelevancies; there is only one clear solution.

Causations? You might as well debate Creation!

Because, the problem is one and only. The occupying Turkish army. If you wish to extend it to the realms of humanity, then yes, there are many factors which competed for this present role, which is at the moment played solely by Turkey!

That is not the one and only problem. The Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot communities have not agreed on a solution, on a way to reunify the island. Even if the Turkish army left, that would not magically create a suddenly acceptable plan for peace and reconciliation. It would make peace easier; but it would not make peace.

And there can be no trust between people, no reconciliation, no true coexistence, without truth, honesty, openness. As long as both sides lie about their own responsibility, neither side can trust the other, and no peace can be achieved.

I don't know whether you genuinely believe the things you say, or whether you say things you find politically convenient. But, as long as you deny or ignore facts, as long as you try to silence sad truths about a minority of Greek Cypriots or Greeks by shouting sad truths about a minority of Turkish Cypriots or Turks, you will damage the peace process.

It's your choice. You can help the island - and your own community - achieve peace, freedom, and prosperity; or you can make your own and other people's lives difficult. Personally, I would prefer to build community rather than conflict.