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Feb 2011. New York and Eroglu - HURRIYET

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Feb 2011. New York and Eroglu - HURRIYET

Postby MrH » Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:31 am

Welcome to the Real world my Greek Cypriots from the Cyprus Forum. Yusuf Kanli is a very good friend of mine who has once again it the nail right on the head, as usual. Particular the following part taken from the article below:

"That is indeed the crux of the problem; Greek Cypriots are not yet mentally prepared to a bi-zonal and bi-communal federal settlement where the two peoples of the island are politically equal."

However, what I would like to debate on is not this article, but on whether or not the Greek Cypriots will corner themselves into partitioning the island come Feb 2011 due to their Ultra-Nationalist - anti-Turkish Cypriot views. We all know that the Greek Cypriot back-benchers of the GC-operated ROC hate the Turkish Cypriots and want them only to be represented as a pointless minority group in a majority dominated GC-ROC, which will obviously never happen, but how long will they NOW be able to hold on to that false reality? In my opinion, and according to the response I received in New York (Yes, that's where I currently am), I would say that the team from the UN very much already see us [The Turkish Cypriots] as being a part of another "State". One UN Diplomat even said the following, "I like the Turkish Cypriot Flag that's being flown outside". Regardless of it being known as the TRNC flag to us TCs or one of the "Constituent" flags of the proposed "United Cyprus Republic", it is still here to stay. Please enjoy Yusuf Kanli's article below.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=cyprus-talks-i--2010-09-22

Wednesday, September 22, 2010
YUSUF KANLI
For the next few days, I will be trying to analyze the latest developments in the Cyprus talks. The tentative year’s end deadline for a resolution on the island is approaching fast, yet developments indicate that unless Greek Cypriots go through a comprehensive evolution and overcome their mental fatigue, a settlement on the eastern Mediterranean island will not be possible any time soon.

According to some public statements the proposals of the Turkish and Greek Cypriot sides on the thorny property aspect of the Cyprus problem apparently boosted the “hope” of the United Nations team “facilitating” the direct-talks process that there might be a Cyprus settlement. Now, instead of the “end of 2010” deadline, “deep throats” are whispering that U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon has started commenting that perhaps the process might be allowed to continue until the end of February 2011.

In private discussions, however, many people involved in the process underline that it might be conducive to the process to tell the public that there is hope for a settlement, but the two sides on the island are as far apart as ever on most key aspects of the problem. If the talks are to succeed there is a need to accelerate the process and get on board Turkey, Greece and Britain – the three guarantor powers under the 1960 accords – and convert talks into a five-party conference on the sidelines of which the EU as well as the five permanent members of the Security Council should sit as observers. Greek Cypriots are staunchly opposing such a conference on grounds that they are the government of the entire island and cannot agree to be relegated to the community status by attending on equal footing with the Turkish Cypriots. That is indeed the crux of the problem; Greek Cypriots are not yet mentally prepared to a bi-zonal and bi-communal federal settlement where the two peoples of the island are politically equal.

This mental fatigue of the Greek Cypriot side was reflected once again in their proposal regarding the property aspect of the problem. A careful examination of the Greek Cypriot proposals clearly demonstrate that there has not been an inch forward in the Greek Cypriot position since the 1975 National Council decision describing Greek Cypriots as owners of the eastern Mediterranean island and Turkish Cypriots as 500-year-old guests who cannot have any rights in the Cyprus Republic further than some minority rights. Neither the immense sufferings of the Turkish Cypriot people under genocidal practices they were subjected to in the period of 1963-1974, nor the developments on the island since the 1974 Turkish intervention are being taken into consideration in the Greek proposals.

Though Greek Cypriot leader Demetris Christofias described the proposals he presented to the Turkish Cypriot side as “reasonable”, acceptance of the package would mean saying “yes” to Turkish Cypriots becoming landless as over 80 percent of the properties in northern Cyprus would have to be handed over to Greek Cypriots and thus collapse of the socioeconomic structure established in northern Cyprus in the aftermath of the 1974 intervention. Thus, in the “Turkish Cypriot state” of the future federation, Turkish Cypriots would become lessee of Greek Cypriot properties. Naturally, such a demand is in total contradiction with the “bi-zonality” principle.

Secondly, Christofias is demanding that only 50,000 of the mainland Turkish people who settled on Cyprus and have acquired Turkish Cypriot citizenship might stay on the island after a settlement, the rest should be “paid and sent back to Turkey” while up to 100,000 former Greek Cypriot residents of northern Cyprus should be allowed to return to their former properties. That means up to 40 percent of the population of the reduced northern Turkish Cypriot zone would be Greek Cypriots. Is this compatible at all with the bi-communality principle the two sides agreed back in 1977 and 1979 high level agreements or the established U.N. parameters of a settlement?

Under the Greek Cypriot proposals title deeds of all former Greek Cypriot properties would be given back to Greek Cypriots. 90 percent of those properties would be handed back to Greek Cypriots, while the remaining 10 percent might be leased for up to 15 years to “current Turkish Cypriot users.” Coupled with the demand that up to 100,000 Greek Cypriots should be allowed to return north, Christofias is indeed telling Turkish Cypriots they have no place on Cyprus.

Such demands contradict not only with the 1977 and 1979 accords and the established U.N. parameters regarding the bi-zonal and bi-communal character of the future federation but also renders Turkish Cypriots landless in their own homeland. Naturally, these proposals cannot be taken seriously or considered as “reasonable” by anyone in northern Cyprus.
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Postby B25 » Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:31 am

:lol: :lol: " yet developments indicate that unless Greek Cypriots go through a comprehensive evolution and overcome their mental fatigue, a settlement on the eastern Mediterranean island will not be possible any time soon..... " :lol: :lol:

You speak like the TCs are little angels and have done no wrong.

Trouble with the TC writers is they are always high after their hashishs smoking and enter in dream land and write this shit.

Not only has the RoC government done everything to make life easy for the TCs, they are now being blamed for everything.

Ah poor little TCs.

Trouble is our pathetic successive governments have padded you MFs too long and we have given you an inch and you want to take 10 feet. You needed treatment like you deserved, we should have employed the Israelis who really know how to handle shit.

And who was the UN person who made the comment, a Turkish one no doubt?

On yer bikes, end of year blackmails don't work, we heard all your idle threats before, stick them. In fact, as a famous former memeber would say, roll them up in a cylindrical tube and ......

Cheers
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Postby SKI-preo » Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:37 am

"That is indeed the crux of the problem; Greek Cypriots are not yet mentally prepared to a bi-zonal and bi-communal federal settlement where the two peoples of the island are politically equal."


Its a very bizare and abstract concept that does not exist in any developed democracy. I don't think anyone honeslty understands this freaky idea.
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Re: Feb 2011. New York and Eroglu - HURRIYET

Postby Paphitis » Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:13 am

MrH wrote:Welcome to the Real world my Greek Cypriots from the Cyprus Forum. Yusuf Kanli is a very good friend of mine who has once again it the nail right on the head, as usual. Particular the following part taken from the article below:

"That is indeed the crux of the problem; Greek Cypriots are not yet mentally prepared to a bi-zonal and bi-communal federal settlement where the two peoples of the island are politically equal."

However, what I would like to debate on is not this article, but on whether or not the Greek Cypriots will corner themselves into partitioning the island come Feb 2011 due to their Ultra-Nationalist - anti-Turkish Cypriot views. We all know that the Greek Cypriot back-benchers of the GC-operated ROC hate the Turkish Cypriots and want them only to be represented as a pointless minority group in a majority dominated GC-ROC, which will obviously never happen, but how long will they NOW be able to hold on to that false reality? In my opinion, and according to the response I received in New York (Yes, that's where I currently am), I would say that the team from the UN very much already see us [The Turkish Cypriots] as being a part of another "State". One UN Diplomat even said the following, "I like the Turkish Cypriot Flag that's being flown outside". Regardless of it being known as the TRNC flag to us TCs or one of the "Constituent" flags of the proposed "United Cyprus Republic", it is still here to stay. Please enjoy Yusuf Kanli's article below.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=cyprus-talks-i--2010-09-22

Wednesday, September 22, 2010
YUSUF KANLI
For the next few days, I will be trying to analyze the latest developments in the Cyprus talks. The tentative year’s end deadline for a resolution on the island is approaching fast, yet developments indicate that unless Greek Cypriots go through a comprehensive evolution and overcome their mental fatigue, a settlement on the eastern Mediterranean island will not be possible any time soon.

According to some public statements the proposals of the Turkish and Greek Cypriot sides on the thorny property aspect of the Cyprus problem apparently boosted the “hope” of the United Nations team “facilitating” the direct-talks process that there might be a Cyprus settlement. Now, instead of the “end of 2010” deadline, “deep throats” are whispering that U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon has started commenting that perhaps the process might be allowed to continue until the end of February 2011.

In private discussions, however, many people involved in the process underline that it might be conducive to the process to tell the public that there is hope for a settlement, but the two sides on the island are as far apart as ever on most key aspects of the problem. If the talks are to succeed there is a need to accelerate the process and get on board Turkey, Greece and Britain – the three guarantor powers under the 1960 accords – and convert talks into a five-party conference on the sidelines of which the EU as well as the five permanent members of the Security Council should sit as observers. Greek Cypriots are staunchly opposing such a conference on grounds that they are the government of the entire island and cannot agree to be relegated to the community status by attending on equal footing with the Turkish Cypriots. That is indeed the crux of the problem; Greek Cypriots are not yet mentally prepared to a bi-zonal and bi-communal federal settlement where the two peoples of the island are politically equal.

This mental fatigue of the Greek Cypriot side was reflected once again in their proposal regarding the property aspect of the problem. A careful examination of the Greek Cypriot proposals clearly demonstrate that there has not been an inch forward in the Greek Cypriot position since the 1975 National Council decision describing Greek Cypriots as owners of the eastern Mediterranean island and Turkish Cypriots as 500-year-old guests who cannot have any rights in the Cyprus Republic further than some minority rights. Neither the immense sufferings of the Turkish Cypriot people under genocidal practices they were subjected to in the period of 1963-1974, nor the developments on the island since the 1974 Turkish intervention are being taken into consideration in the Greek proposals.

Though Greek Cypriot leader Demetris Christofias described the proposals he presented to the Turkish Cypriot side as “reasonable”, acceptance of the package would mean saying “yes” to Turkish Cypriots becoming landless as over 80 percent of the properties in northern Cyprus would have to be handed over to Greek Cypriots and thus collapse of the socioeconomic structure established in northern Cyprus in the aftermath of the 1974 intervention. Thus, in the “Turkish Cypriot state” of the future federation, Turkish Cypriots would become lessee of Greek Cypriot properties. Naturally, such a demand is in total contradiction with the “bi-zonality” principle.

Secondly, Christofias is demanding that only 50,000 of the mainland Turkish people who settled on Cyprus and have acquired Turkish Cypriot citizenship might stay on the island after a settlement, the rest should be “paid and sent back to Turkey” while up to 100,000 former Greek Cypriot residents of northern Cyprus should be allowed to return to their former properties. That means up to 40 percent of the population of the reduced northern Turkish Cypriot zone would be Greek Cypriots. Is this compatible at all with the bi-communality principle the two sides agreed back in 1977 and 1979 high level agreements or the established U.N. parameters of a settlement?

Under the Greek Cypriot proposals title deeds of all former Greek Cypriot properties would be given back to Greek Cypriots. 90 percent of those properties would be handed back to Greek Cypriots, while the remaining 10 percent might be leased for up to 15 years to “current Turkish Cypriot users.” Coupled with the demand that up to 100,000 Greek Cypriots should be allowed to return north, Christofias is indeed telling Turkish Cypriots they have no place on Cyprus.

Such demands contradict not only with the 1977 and 1979 accords and the established U.N. parameters regarding the bi-zonal and bi-communal character of the future federation but also renders Turkish Cypriots landless in their own homeland. Naturally, these proposals cannot be taken seriously or considered as “reasonable” by anyone in northern Cyprus.


In February, I am going to rub your nose in the dirt! This is nothing we haven't heard before, so don't hold your breath idiot!
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Re: Feb 2011. New York and Eroglu - HURRIYET

Postby wyoming cowboy » Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:43 am

MrH wrote:Welcome to the Real world my Greek Cypriots from the Cyprus Forum. Yusuf Kanli is a very good friend of mine who has once again it the nail right on the head, as usual. Particular the following part taken from the article below:

"That is indeed the crux of the problem; Greek Cypriots are not yet mentally prepared to a bi-zonal and bi-communal federal settlement where the two peoples of the island are politically equal."

However, what I would like to debate on is not this article, but on whether or not the Greek Cypriots will corner themselves into partitioning the island come Feb 2011 due to their Ultra-Nationalist - anti-Turkish Cypriot views. We all know that the Greek Cypriot back-benchers of the GC-operated ROC hate the Turkish Cypriots and want them only to be represented as a pointless minority group in a majority dominated GC-ROC, which will obviously never happen, but how long will they NOW be able to hold on to that false reality? In my opinion, and according to the response I received in New York (Yes, that's where I currently am), I would say that the team from the UN very much already see us [The Turkish Cypriots] as being a part of another "State". One UN Diplomat even said the following, "I like the Turkish Cypriot Flag that's being flown outside". Regardless of it being known as the TRNC flag to us TCs or one of the "Constituent" flags of the proposed "United Cyprus Republic", it is still here to stay. Please enjoy Yusuf Kanli's article below.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=cyprus-talks-i--2010-09-22

Wednesday, September 22, 2010
YUSUF KANLI
For the next few days, I will be trying to analyze the latest developments in the Cyprus talks. The tentative year’s end deadline for a resolution on the island is approaching fast, yet developments indicate that unless Greek Cypriots go through a comprehensive evolution and overcome their mental fatigue, a settlement on the eastern Mediterranean island will not be possible any time soon.

According to some public statements the proposals of the Turkish and Greek Cypriot sides on the thorny property aspect of the Cyprus problem apparently boosted the “hope” of the United Nations team “facilitating” the direct-talks process that there might be a Cyprus settlement. Now, instead of the “end of 2010” deadline, “deep throats” are whispering that U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon has started commenting that perhaps the process might be allowed to continue until the end of February 2011.

In private discussions, however, many people involved in the process underline that it might be conducive to the process to tell the public that there is hope for a settlement, but the two sides on the island are as far apart as ever on most key aspects of the problem. If the talks are to succeed there is a need to accelerate the process and get on board Turkey, Greece and Britain – the three guarantor powers under the 1960 accords – and convert talks into a five-party conference on the sidelines of which the EU as well as the five permanent members of the Security Council should sit as observers. Greek Cypriots are staunchly opposing such a conference on grounds that they are the government of the entire island and cannot agree to be relegated to the community status by attending on equal footing with the Turkish Cypriots. That is indeed the crux of the problem; Greek Cypriots are not yet mentally prepared to a bi-zonal and bi-communal federal settlement where the two peoples of the island are politically equal.

This mental fatigue of the Greek Cypriot side was reflected once again in their proposal regarding the property aspect of the problem. A careful examination of the Greek Cypriot proposals clearly demonstrate that there has not been an inch forward in the Greek Cypriot position since the 1975 National Council decision describing Greek Cypriots as owners of the eastern Mediterranean island and Turkish Cypriots as 500-year-old guests who cannot have any rights in the Cyprus Republic further than some minority rights. Neither the immense sufferings of the Turkish Cypriot people under genocidal practices they were subjected to in the period of 1963-1974, nor the developments on the island since the 1974 Turkish intervention are being taken into consideration in the Greek proposals.

Though Greek Cypriot leader Demetris Christofias described the proposals he presented to the Turkish Cypriot side as “reasonable”, acceptance of the package would mean saying “yes” to Turkish Cypriots becoming landless as over 80 percent of the properties in northern Cyprus would have to be handed over to Greek Cypriots and thus collapse of the socioeconomic structure established in northern Cyprus in the aftermath of the 1974 intervention. Thus, in the “Turkish Cypriot state” of the future federation, Turkish Cypriots would become lessee of Greek Cypriot properties. Naturally, such a demand is in total contradiction with the “bi-zonality” principle.

Secondly, Christofias is demanding that only 50,000 of the mainland Turkish people who settled on Cyprus and have acquired Turkish Cypriot citizenship might stay on the island after a settlement, the rest should be “paid and sent back to Turkey” while up to 100,000 former Greek Cypriot residents of northern Cyprus should be allowed to return to their former properties. That means up to 40 percent of the population of the reduced northern Turkish Cypriot zone would be Greek Cypriots. Is this compatible at all with the bi-communality principle the two sides agreed back in 1977 and 1979 high level agreements or the established U.N. parameters of a settlement?

Under the Greek Cypriot proposals title deeds of all former Greek Cypriot properties would be given back to Greek Cypriots. 90 percent of those properties would be handed back to Greek Cypriots, while the remaining 10 percent might be leased for up to 15 years to “current Turkish Cypriot users.” Coupled with the demand that up to 100,000 Greek Cypriots should be allowed to return north, Christofias is indeed telling Turkish Cypriots they have no place on Cyprus.

Such demands contradict not only with the 1977 and 1979 accords and the established U.N. parameters regarding the bi-zonal and bi-communal character of the future federation but also renders Turkish Cypriots landless in their own homeland. Naturally, these proposals cannot be taken seriously or considered as “reasonable” by anyone in northern Cyprus.



you and your friend are morons.....more false propaganda from the tc and turk regimes
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Postby Nikitas » Thu Sep 23, 2010 12:47 pm

Have you all noticed that no Turkish or TC commentator has analysed the property proposals?

Of course not, even a partisan analysis would have to analyse and expose the robbery of property that these prosposals are. First they get title to the GC land in the north, then they compensate with bits of paper and not money, then they participate as partners in the Property Development Corporation which will develop TC land in the south.

This is bullshit.

As for the settlers, their presence is an internationally defined war crime, and their presence violates the principle of "equality" whch TCs so much press. When you have imported population you no longer have two "communities", you have a foreign national element in the game, and you kiss communal equality goodbye.
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Re: Feb 2011. New York and Eroglu - HURRIYET

Postby Hermes » Thu Sep 23, 2010 12:53 pm

MrH wrote:Welcome to the Real world my Greek Cypriots from the Cyprus Forum. Yusuf Kanli is a very good friend of mine who has once again it the nail right on the head, as usual. Particular the following part taken from the article below:

"That is indeed the crux of the problem; Greek Cypriots are not yet mentally prepared to a bi-zonal and bi-communal federal settlement where the two peoples of the island are politically equal."


I'm sorry but this article is a total fantasy. It is confused on so many levels it beggars belief that it is meant to be taken seriously. Since when is political equality defined as the right to keep property that has been taken by force? Since when has the principle of a BZBCF been based on the assumption that T/Cs will get to keep Greek Cypriot properties? This is complete nonsense. Political equality and a federal solution do not mean that Greek Cypriots have to relinquish their right to their ancestral homes. If this is what most Turkish Cypriots actually believe then they are utterly deluded. They had better wake up fast because this is not what "political equality" means. Not in the real world. Not in any world.
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Re: Feb 2011. New York and Eroglu - HURRIYET

Postby Get Real! » Thu Sep 23, 2010 12:59 pm

MrH wrote:"That is indeed the crux of the problem; Greek Cypriots are not yet mentally prepared to a bi-zonal and bi-communal federal settlement where the two peoples of the island are politically equal."

And they never will be because they don’t believe in undemocratic favoritism of minorities… and especially one so destructive and incompetent!

So the crux of the problem is your dumb community expecting miracles! :roll:
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Postby Nikitas » Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:08 pm

Bizonal means geographic separation, Bicommunal means ethnic separation, in other words partition.

Call it by its proper name and we can talk business.
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Postby MrH » Sun Sep 26, 2010 2:07 am

B52 Said:
On yer bikes, end of year blackmails don't work, we heard all your idle threats before, stick them. In fact, as a famous former memeber would say, roll them up in a cylindrical tube and ......


I will give you this B52, and I'm being serious here, perhaps you are right mate. Perhaps this threat IS ALL TALK. But, what if it isn't this time? What if like the empty threats Turkey made from: 1963 To: 1974, that decisive moment, the moment that the Turkish Cypriots didn't believe would happen, will once again repeat itself. I mean, Turkey has kept its promise only Twice: 1974 and 1983. What if, after another long wait since 1983, Turkey will finally close the Cap on the Cyprus negotiations and will Change its Cyprus policy from that of keeping the UN Cypurs Negotiations continuing to that of to Seek the Recognition of the TRNC only?

What if, if, Turkey like in the past, it has once again come to the end of waiting and she is no longer bluffing again....

....What if......

I believe the GC-ROC deliberately applied for EU membership because it was to scared to express its true desire for Partition. That it prefers it to come from the Turks instead. I'm no Fortune Teller, but I do know a great deal about political tactics and their initiation.

What if?
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